Question about conversion of unused resources

Any military spending on a planet with no ship queued is funneled to social projects, and if there is no social project, the spending is refunded. Same works in reverse.

No.

Unused, funded social is transferred to military but gains neither social's bonus nor military's bonus by way of doing so.

Unused, funded social and military is transferred back to the treasury (after the above step).

Unused, funded military is not transferred to social.

You only get that by way of focus, which although it only adds 25% (DA)/20% (TA)/or in our case 50% (mil <--> social only) of the transferred value, does have the benefit of gaining the bonus of the production that it arrives at-so focusing funded military on social gives you half your funded military production transferred to social, but with social's production bonus added to it.

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In answer to your question, synergy09, if you build a 100BC ship on a planet with 150 production, it will cost you 150BC (without accounting for bonuses, of which half are free).  However, you spend no money (besides maintenance) when you are not building a ship on that 100 production planet, regardless of your military funding rate.

I'd use another perspective on this issue if you don't mind, Kryo & SoleSoul.

Production of anything not only has BCs but pure points cost; knowing this, all accumulated mps for Military_Social elements are being spent locally **and** empire wide by means of focusing in two specific but quite different ways.

1-- On individual planets... empty queues of anything are transfered back to the global estimates of available BCs (cumulative) or productivity potential and yet unused.

2-- When in the colonies spreadsheet listing... focusing everything by using the header tabs & pointing at the individual slots.

The variations are much more obvious when you examine the effects through the second situation.

3-- Sliders also have huge calibration factors applied to this "formula" as far as the general productivity (right below Taxing) is concerned.

4-- But, the underneath other set of three sliders is where the real action is; by using a lock on any single item... the other two or one only CAN be topped off at 100% (in total, together, or even 50/50 each) affecting ALL planets simultaneously.

5-- Thus... a Zeroed category is not wasting whatever amounts (BCs, mps or tps, btw) gained in #1 or #2.

Hi!

No more. The waste was eliminated long ago somewhere around GC-2 version 1.0x. It is still present in GC-1, in all versions, but that doesn't apply here.

Constructors, and spamming starbases. That's probably one of the reasons for many nerfs the SBs got with almost every mayor game upgrade.

BR,  Iztok

Very helpful forum here, thanks guys. You cleared it up for me. It makes sense now how if I turn my military slider up and I have a lot of planets with shields but not producing anything, my net income increases.

Is it okay if I pose another question here? I don't want to derail the thread, but on the other hand, I don't want to create a ton of different threads every time a question comes up. This one is in regards to extreme planets in Dark Avatar.

Well, I'm beginning to hate them. I can always go back, play TA and turn extreme planets to "rare" but I'm sorely missing that option in DA. I do my colony rush and there's these little annoying gaps in my influence blob where there's literally are 2-3 star systems with *only extreme plantes in them. So is there any way at all, like some sort of mod, to turn them off in DA? I may even create my own map using the editor. I know, why relapse to a previous expansion when you have the new one? I'm just testing things out, and DA has been a lot easier for me so far as just getting the game because it seems they made TA a lot more complicated/harder to understand with all the different research trees and additional maintanence costs.

It's alright, let's call YOUR thread *The synergy09 adventures* for anything s/he dares talking about from now on!

Sadly, Extremes are randomized in sandbox mode according to the usual planets settings (rare, scattered, map size, etc)... any custom maps would not have any unless dropped in by you on purpose as you said though.

Here's crossing fingers, SD devs get out of the DemiGod & Elemental Beta phase in one piece and we all get to have some slick TA backporting features into DA, fixes, tweaks, updates; editors, constructors automation, external shipyard & planetary governor being just four more from an extensive wish list created by many of us in plenty of other threads.

I too prefer DA, btw.

Not that I'm aware of; it would be a hard code problem.

There are several "solutions", among them creating your own map, as you've stated (maps made with the TA map editor should work in DA; alternatively there are at least two standalone DA map creators and one that is web-based around here somewhere), which might get boring due to knowing where everything is, or playing a race that gets some of those techs by default (this would require Isolationist, Adapter, or Annihilator as the SA of choice).

You might also just start researching the extreme environments during the rush-it's what I personally do.

2:01 apart, are you stalking me again SoleSoul?

Nope-you got in before me.  Didn't see your post up there, Zyx.

There are higher scores to be had in TA-but less planets.  Not only does the focus nerf annoy me, but the tech capital nerf annoys me.  For those who play on higher difficulties, it's actually better than it used to be-but only up until about a 62% research bonus at Suicidal.  For normal/Tough/etc players it's just plain worse all of the time, and it doesn't help Suicidal either because you're almost always in one of two situations: Your research bonus is >62% or your research bonus is irrelevant (all factories, all economy, late game, etc).

[Note: Research bonus is not useless with all factory, it's just generally not the focus.)

Great idea! I uhh ... am pretty hooked on this game so I may have a question from time to time.

And yeah - DA all the way. It's just my opinion, and I understand the need to spice things up and add variety, but I love the overall balance of DA. Hopefully, as you said, they keep developing and creating new things for both expansions.

You know, I'm getting awfully tempted to. My mouse hovers over the necessary techs all the time. I may try it and see what happens. Of course, I'm playing on normal/advanced right now so I'm already ahead of the AI and I have almost double the influence of any other civ at the end of the rush. So I think I can afford to.

I've also been tooling around with the map editor and I know what you mean about the element of suprise being taken out. It is a rush (um, during the rush) to explore and happen upon a really awesome high PQ planet. I think it might take some fun out of the game.

And here's another question that has to do with starting bonuses. Do you guys think it's worth it use points on increasing the planet quality by 10%/20% as a starting bonus? Those extra tiles are nice but it's really expensive, and I'm really unsure about what to drop out of my custom race to try it out. Here's the race I have created now. They are known as the Cyborgs!

Economics + 30

Moral + 20

Military Production + 20

Luck + 25

Creativity + 25

Diplomacy + 20

Do you guys thing this is good? I choose Federalists as my party and I'm addicted to the Super Breeder ability. My planets hit their cap so fast with it.

The colony rush is my drug of choice.

PQ is something i've dubbed "transitional cost", sooner or later these planets grow in both quality and through Terraforming pace or simple anomalies luck... to me, all starting Bonuses (for a custom race session within personal mods, btw) are always Zero simply for the challenges it involves, even the PolParty is a tricky Neutrality list of total blanks!

Pay a visit to the Wiki (https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Civilizations_Wiki), you'll soon find out that there are certain abilities which have no absolute impacts in certain situations.

GC2 is a TBS4X, exploring is really just the fun part which nobody has rights to take it away from you.

No, it's not.  Everything in GC2 truncates; a 10% bonus means you get one more tile on your class 10 homeworld, for class 11.  (Class 14 now instead of class 13 after terraforming.)  A 20% bonus means you get two tiles-class 10 becomes 12, becomes 15 after terraforming.

One point of morale is generally worth taking, and luck isn't a bad idea.  Creativity is helpful in TA-or rather, can be-since it completes the tech for you if it triggers.  It's not so helpful in DA, where it simply adds a percentage (of your output, I think)-you're better off choosing a research bonus.

I'm not real clear on why you'd choose a diplomacy bonus.  Unless you're focusing your game around buying/selling tech with the AI, it's not a necessary stat, and you get more than enough of it from techs.

I personally find economics 30% at 4 points to be too costly, but most everyone seems to like it.

I love military production, but ensure that you're actually building ships, so it doesn't go to waste. 

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Zyx, why would you play without bonuses?  Let me guess, custom so you don't have any inherent, either, and no starting techs?

Hi!

One of the work-arounds could be you mod starting techs for all races and give all of them extreme environment techs. However with that you'd hurt badly some super abilities that start with knowledge of extreme techs, the Super Adapter being hurt the most. 

BR,  Iztok

Difficulty levels are tooo much of percentile evaluations for my taste and i grew tired of Toughing a +/- esoteric boost to AI opponents.

That way, i'm leveling the play field to desperate situations against my silly brain and as a bonus, i get to observe mod effects i wouldn't otherwise 'see'.

Call me a freak for negative odds (which, btw... were already tried by GeneralPants stuff!).

Nice one, Iztok... all little greenish Icons right from the start!

One more reason why i gave Toxic or RadioActive initial colonizing "power" to the Aliens since X-Com & Magnetic are Super-Adapters in (hold on, people) X-Worlds 06-A and earlier versions.

50 to 50 = 100 still eludes me, but i've got me some slick Oranges icons ready for SD devs decision on gapping everything to 20-30-50 or maybe even more levels. But Terraforming is even worst as some of you may know already.

Yeah, there's only the two levels.  Hardcoded, with a maximum of 100%.  I checked that, too.

Strangely, it's an integer flip_flop. Ability tag value of 1 converts to 50%... floating point mathematics takes what 32 tiny bytes more of a jmp call. Ya know, 0.25 sounds like a quarter of the way to me.

Rather simple codewise, btw.

(PS: ooops, sorry synergy09, i seem to have Hi-Jacked your thread -- but that's how we all go about in these Forums -- Off-Topic is a widespread situation, the cause is still unknown but i'll risk a guess; Spore module and Plague Mega-Events!)

After my last game, I'm trying this. The AI started back colonizing all my extreme planets, and it got really annoying after a while waiting for them to flip. I'm assuming those with Super Adapter can be given another ability much the same way you can add techs? Not sure, but I'll mess around with the files later. I used to edit my EU2 games quite a lot so this is all kind of familiar to me.

re: Sole and Zyz. You guys are definitely right, and I realize this because I actually tried it. Ugh, good thing that was a really short game.

I chose diplomacy because I have a heck of a time trying to trade with the AI. How can I make it easier for them to give up the techs I need? They seem to want to attack a neighbor by just giving them a weapon tech but they won't give up anything without me offering up some really good/a lot of techs.

Oh and the Terran alliance will not be making an appearance in my next game. My last one they beat up on a few weaker civz, befriended everyone else (everyone loves them, don't know why) and then started demanding things from me, I refused, and all out war ensued. And since everyone loves Terrans ... well you know how that goes.

Not really, no.

You can change the SA, but the SAs are hardcoded; you can't add/edit one.

1) Research the diplomacy tree.  All of it.
2) Build the diplomatic translators.
3) Have a "big stick" military.  The AI is much more afraid of cargo hulls than it should be, when they have weapons in them.  The SCC (Spin Control Center, unlocked from Total Majesty) also helps with this, but it's really not necessary.  Do note that after you surpass them militarily by a certain amount they'll stop trading weapons techs to you (but I think they still trade defenses, and they still trade everything else, with the possible exception of soldiering techs).
4) Stop relying on the AI to research techs for you.

Include the Altarians sometime, and attack them.  Let me know how it goes. 

On second thought, that's a HORRIBLE idea. 

I know im trolling and i offer the OP very little help, beleive me with these guys you don't need anymore.

But Zyx.....

I gotta love that you are poking fun at yourself now!! The "hold on, people" people had me in stitches.

Also, saves the rest of us pointing it out. ( I couldn't be too nice of course, had to throw that one in )

What you could do though and since SA when with the Icos in the default state is none too powerful anyway, is give the Iconians Super Trader.

I have done this and it gived the Icos a new lease on life, especailly with their already fine Tech Tree. (TA of course) With everyone having extreme techs and Icos with Super Trader it actually balances out quite well, though i did adjust some of the research costs for extreme techs in the Icos Tree to give them back a little colonization advantage for the extreme worlds.

Iv'e done this in, (look out shameless plug) my race mod that may or may not form part of a larger mod the ToE/SS is working on, or at least was.

3) Anything under 3 to 1 military will not get you the "big stick" that you really want. Like SS said get to Total Majesty ASAP and along with 3 to 1 military rating you should have the AI melting in your hand.

They will trade defense techs, up until you get -- in "we don't trust them" anyway. (or whatever it's called). No matter the advantage you may have you will never get anything from the PI branch from the AI. They just do not give that up.

Btw...DA FTW. TA is fine...but DA is the rooster in the hen house IMHO.

If your military sucks ass (will check this-I think soldiering counts as "weapons" tech in their mind), but you have scads of cash, they'll let them go for ~10-20k a piece.  They seem to get a modifier similar to the econ treaties in that regard, although the econ treaties are even more expensive.  (A couple of other "keystone" techs that unlock other techs have this as well, among them space mining and basic logistics and if memory serves advanced hulls.)

But none of us are ever in that kind of situation. 

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I wrote a bit of a rant, but I'm not going to post it.  Bottom line: I was in on TA from Beta 2 onward of 5 or 6 betas, up until the last half of the last part of the last portion when due to life I was without both net and a computer, and I still think TA is incomplete, while DA is stable.

I like TA.  I like it very much.  I think more could have easily been done and, among other things, I'm not satisfied that the Terrans have displaced the Thalans as the race of choice, at least tree-wise; the Thalans in fact at this point are probably still considered to have the worst tree-and it was even worse during the betas.

Honestly i've never seen it. During my war cycles in mumblers with far more than 10 to 1 military, high diplo and offering them everything, they simply do not want to hand out PI.

Though..admittedly, i am not offering cash in these transactions since i am always in debt at this point. If it's cash that they will trade for and nothing else, then that may well be so, i've never tried offering them cash.....

I don't mind the Thalan tree at all actually, the Yor tree is the default tree of my choice though.

To my knowledge, invasion techs are considered military.  This means they won't trade them if you have so much as a 1 attack fighter.  (Hyperbole but you get the point.)

Well, I did come to the conclusion that the suggestions some of us (myself included) were tossing out in the beta to downgrade the production/research/food on the hyperion matrix and make it their default building, even if it was only one per planet, would probably make it overpowered.  But there are still plenty of holes in their tree-as much as I like it.

Why the Yor, if you don't mind my asking?

(just wanted to say, thanks for the help so far everyone!)

Yeah, I think my smaller military was the problem. I was always below 100, and that probably hurt my bargaining skills. The AI would always begin with "always willing to help my relatively weak neighbor" - it should have been a sign, haha.

I don't know if you guys can help but I ran into a spot of trouble editing the race file to give everyone the extreme colonization techs. The problem is that I can't seem to give the Custom Race group the techs! Sure I can add them, and sometimes they show up on the selection screen (sometimes not, it's really weird), but never in-game. I have every other race with them ... but I can't seem to get it to work for me. It seems now that if I select a race as my own, the techs and any other changes sometimes go away. Very odd.

edit: And things get even stranger. I selected the Yor and the techs showed up on the selection screen, but when I started the game I only had half of Barren World colonization researched. There's really something I'm not understanding here. I may post a thread over in the modding section.