Wow.. No thread on Shatter? :\ - Tied for the biggest balance issue.

Well, the damage might be too harsh, but don't forget you can do pretty much the same with Rook: Boulder roll + Hammer slam, and those are only 2 skills (AOE too). And the thing is if you go down the deepfreeze tree, you don't really have any other tricks, if someone escapes from the effect you're pretty much dead or need to retreat, and it's not that hard to do, once it can do 2800 damage, you'll have a lot of money, buying the invulnerability trinket (or being Oak) makes deep freeze useless.

The change I'd suggest: once you cast Frost nova a cooldown of (corrent stun of frost nova+1 second) starts on Deep freeze, that way, everyone has a chance to escape or evade the huge damage, but that might make Ice TB too weak.

I don't know, but really we shouldn't take away the only unique and fun skill of TB.

I play frost TB almost always in Demigod. My opinion is to reduce by maybe 15% the damage shatter does. More than that does take away most of the damaging ability of Frostmode and makes him gimp as I don't even know O.o

Trust me, you do not want to take the damage away, just lessen it.

Edit: Sorry that this sounded like I didn't read, but you are asking for a lot of stuff to be done when a scaling of damage could be the fix it needs.

HAmmer slam is pretty easy to avoid.  Shatter isn't avoidable.  It's point and click, and ranged.
And I'm not quite sure how a 1 second delay before you can deep freeze after frost nova ends would make it so people can "escape or evade".  Not even a 30 second delay after would allow that since they are FROZEN, so you can move right up to them/past them before they thaw.

Just reducing the damage 15% would suck.
Not sure if you read what I posted..

I see what you're saying. But don't compare it to hammer slam... you can't avoid it if you get boulder rolled in melee, which melee heroes would find themselves being in melee with him often :3

I can see how the debuff ending damage thing might help, but that would force Frost TB to stick around and wait for 7 seconds while perhaps getting beat down by assisting demigods. I guess I mean to say, Frost TB won't be alone with a hero long enough in a decent game to not be at risk of being annihilated for hanging out after attacking.

Also, I like how you want to bring more timing into it, that was a good idea. But if that would be so, I'd like debuff timers on the demigod i'm attacking, or some form of keeping time, because otherwise it would get annoying having to count out in my head every time I attack someone. xD I'm lazy, I guess.

Yes shatter is very rigged, I think that it should do like 3/4 of the damage it does now because shatter and warpstone is like impossible to dodge. Furthermore I dodn't think it should make all abilities take like however long to be able to use again. Rook's boulder roll is easier to dodge and isn't just everyone nearbye, and hammer slam is also easier to dodge, furthermore Rook is slower and u can warpstone out before he reaches u. But tb's awesome attack is freaking ranged and takes no skill to use.

Maybe introducing an item (scroll) that removes every effect from you (even friendly ones) and is castable while stunned? (would also remove stun) It'd need to cost a lot for a 1 use item like 750 gold, but it'd be a great strategic item. If you use it too much you won't have enough money to buy other items, but if you use it effectively you'll have the upper hand.

Edit: Or maybe an item that only removes stun effects, and makes you immune to them for like 5 seconds, that way, using the invulnerability trinket and this new item, you'd counter the deepfreeze easily.

I don't like any of those ideas..

If you keep shatter how it is there is really no damage tweaking that'll fix it.  It'll either be rather worthless, or still too good.  It needs to be reworked.
Like if you just drop shatter to doing 2300 instead of 2900 damage, it's not going to be very good anymore.

If it was reworked how I suggest, you'd have an actual shatter build seperate from a normal ice build because of how you have to spec your skill points, and it it'd take more skill to pull off.

  One of the big problems with shatter now is it's simple point and click.  Rook at least takes some skill to pull off (against good players).  That's why it needs to be reworked.
  The other problem is Deep Freeze is far too good for the skill points you're putting into it.  It interupts, increases recharge MASSIVELY, and does the shatter.  Ice Rain is good too.  So is Frost Nova.  The skill worth points the least is Permafrost.  So it balances out the skills themselves more.

Doesn't the aura last for 15 seconds after you've left range?

I don't think they should rework the best mechanic they came up with, and why does it take more skill to pull off boulder+slam? It's quite simple against melee heroes, 4 clicks actually.

Anyway, a stun removing 1 use item would solve everything, but it might make stuns useless, then again TB is a glasscannon, he needs to do loads of damage in an instant, just look at a fire TB with the cooldown reducing favor item, with that one he does around 2700 damage in 4-5 seconds plus a fire nova and you'll easily do 4000 in 6 seconds. Throw in a potion against that or against the deepfreeze and TB is down. At around level 15 you should have more than 4000 health if you're going against a TB, if you survive the deepfreeze, you're good to go.

Did you even read my original post?

Although your ideas are great - the change is simply too big, and they cannot make changes so big before release.

Instead of making it so complex, it just needs a simple nerf so a ice TB cannot do 2.9k damage instantly. Ontop of the insta 2.9k damage you will also suffer from pretty extreme movement AND attack slowdown. Oh, and I did mention after you get stunned you will also have all your skills cooldowns increased by 10 seconds? So basically, you cant do anything now. If you try to use an item you get stunned, if you try to use another item you get stunned again AND have an increase cooldown of 10 seconds.

1. Decrease range of AoE stun. This at least gives people more of a chance to escape the stun and actually means doing this combo takes more skill.

2. Decrease shatter damage. 2.9k is simply too much damage.

3. Decrease cooldown increase from Deep Freeze. 10 Seconds of no skills after getting stunned and then interupted is too much. How am I meant to use any items if I get stunned, interupted, disabled for 10 seconds. Decrease to something like 3-6 seconds...test around with different figures.

You can either implement all of these or only one or two of them, or even anything else - but point is, it needs a nerf.

I don't see why it'd be so hard to change.  They have 1 month for the day0 patch.

The game is already going gold with teh singleplayer done.  The next month is going to be all multiplayer afaik.

It needs to be changd like that, because just dropping shatters damage by 100/level isn't really going to fix it.

We'll see but the bigger the change the less likely they are to put it in - thats jus the way it works. Tbh I really like your idea, just realistically i dont think they will putting it in....

They wont even put in a small teleport animation (hopefully they will) to the location someone is teleporting to - i doubt they would change/modify the skills so much.

Hopefully its something they can implement later

I don't see exactly what they're going to be working on for the next month..

Aren't there seperate people for fixing the connectivity issues and crashes than do balancing? :\ 

If day0 patch gameplay changes are just purely numbers adjustments, then the game isn't going to be giving a very good first impression imo.

Its been officially announced that there will be purely number adjustments for day0 patch, so nothing else. Numbers can change A LOT in a game. Can make some builds completely viable/not viable or balanced and not balanced.

I don't see Shatter being that big an issue.  For the 2100+800 combo to work the TB in question has to be, what, 15 or 16?  Rook can have 8-9k hp at that point (and slamming for over 2k... in an AOE!), UB and Regulus can be critting for 1k+, Sedna's regenerating 100hp/s or something stupid, and QoT is throwing up shields in the realm of 1.2k.  Let's not talk about Erebus or Oak.

There are item-based counters -- there's the Silence artifact (which isn't worth the money imo but maybe if it got buffed...), a Warpstone of your own, and the 5-second invulnerability item (there may be others I'm forgetting).  I mean when an Ice TB hits 15 you should know it's coming.  And of course there's the simple strategy of not letting them get 15, or ending the game before they can.

Also remember they're adding in Reflect ("Rebound") items, and that could substantially change the dynamic.

but the big thing is to hit with hammer slam it takes actual skill, and its very easy to dodge it of for the Rook to miss, while shatter is a matter of clicking.

At level 10 or something he can do 1800+800.  He just gets 300 more damage if you get fire&ice.

I kinda like the idea of reworking skills though, however it'll make more impact if they let ppl see how overpowered the skills are first, then rework it later and i still kinda like how they design the skills, at least to give some credit to the designer let ppl know it exist first. For a temp fix maybe changing deep freeze to a melee skill would help. It'd fit the image of touching someone and Deep freeze him imo.

That'd suck for the other functions of deep freeze, though.

Like I said, shatter shouldn't be a part of deep freeze.