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Deference
Join Date 04/2004
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Holy SHIT!!!

November 8, 2004 8:52:42 PM from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Yes, it's true!

If all votes are counted in Ohio, Kerry will win the presidency!

Try this link:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4201
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Deference
Deference
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Reply #1 November 8, 2004 8:53:02 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
HOLY SHIT!
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alison watkins
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #2 November 8, 2004 8:56:21 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
are you for real? where did you hear this? I know i'm an ohioan and i voted for him
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Reply #3 November 8, 2004 8:59:19 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I got the tipoff on this from Wisefawn's locked thread. I'm just now scouring for more articles on this subject, I don't know what the news networks are saying, but if anyone has more information on this, either way, I'd like to know for sure.
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drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #4 November 8, 2004 9:41:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Holy SHIT!!!

By: Deference
Posted: Monday, November 08, 2004
Message Board: Politics
Yes, it's true!

If all votes are counted in Ohio, Kerry will win the presidency!

Try this link:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4201


This is NOT proof of ANYTHING! You want to buy into this BS go ahead. No major news media is seeing this to be true.
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Reply #5 November 8, 2004 9:49:25 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Drmiler, come on, buddy, I'm not looking for opinion, here. I'm looking for anyone with any details concerning this, I don't care which way it goes, I just want to know. I've talked to some who have said this rumor started earlier this morning after some development in Ohio but I can't find out anything more about it. I'd like to know what got Wisefawn all revved up...
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drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #6 November 8, 2004 10:02:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #5 By: Deference - 11/8/2004 9:49:25 PM
Drmiler, come on, buddy, I'm not looking for opinion, here. I'm looking for anyone with any details concerning this, I don't care which way it goes, I just want to know. I've talked to some who have said this rumor started earlier this morning after some development in Ohio but I can't find out anything more about it. I'd like to know what got Wisefawn all revved up...


You won't find anything because there's nothing to find. Wisefawn is up to old tricks again. If it sounds like Bush will be tossed out, wisefawn is on it. I have looked and can find nothing substantial to it.
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TheFazz
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #7 November 8, 2004 10:17:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Did you notice the ads to the right and left of the article? It is for Air America, the "European Left" and other Liberal/Democratic outlets. That doesn't really discredit this, but it shows that the author wants with all his heart Kerry to win. Also, I have never heard of this website, nor are any major, credible news sources saying this, so I highly doubt it's true. I think we all know that if any evidence of a possible Kerry victory were to come up, all the news channels would be on it immediately.
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trina_p
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #8 November 8, 2004 10:25:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Question (from an Australian) -If Kerry conceded can he still be Presidant I mean wasn't that what that thing about courts and not challenging votes was about?
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TheFazz
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Reply #9 November 8, 2004 10:29:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I guess he can be, seeing that Bush hasn't been inaugurated yet, and he won't be until January. I think the concession thing is more ceremonial and to show that the candidate feels he has lost, but I may be wrong.
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trina_p
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #10 November 8, 2004 10:34:13 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Sorry about that - my computer was trying to "find" every single letter/word I typed - I rebooted - it works now

Arh okay thanks for clearing that up
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greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #11 November 8, 2004 10:41:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Deference did you read this article? Even though it is from a rabid partisan site they were not saying what you posted. Some quotage from the article itself:


As a result Kerry could theoretically win Ohio


Just one of the stages of grief here my friend. Denial.

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Reply #12 November 8, 2004 10:44:04 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Did you notice the ads to the right and left of the article? It is for Air America, the "European Left" and other Liberal/Democratic outlets. That doesn't really discredit this, but it shows that the author wants with all his heart Kerry to win.

That was the only link I was able to find concerning this, I'm not offering it as evidence that this rumour is true, also I'm wondering what's going on with Wisefawn and why his thread is locked, and who has been spreading this rumour. Friends who worked on the Kerry campaign as paid staff in MO before being moved to Iowa weeks before the election have been chattering since this morning about something going on in Ohio and I can't even get an email or phone call back after initially talking with one of them.
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dharmagrl
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #13 November 8, 2004 10:56:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

also I'm wondering what's going on with Wisefawn and why his thread is locked


Wisefawn is a chick, and her threads have been locked for a while.  I don't know why.....


Dude, I searched and searched and couldn't find anything remotely concrete regarding this.  Nothing.  A bunch of rumors, and few wishful thoughts and some speculation...but nothing with any hard evidence.


When I see it on the major news channels, then I'll give it come credit.  Until then.....

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messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #14 November 9, 2004 12:13:57 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

And people think using FOX News as a reference is biased?

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kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #15 November 9, 2004 12:29:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
im not positive but i think it has something to do with ballots scanned by optical readers.  then again...
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XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #16 November 9, 2004 12:45:59 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I hope Kerry wins, but I'm not holding my breath. We the people voted for Bush, apperently. We will know for sure pretty soon anyway.
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Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #17 November 9, 2004 12:50:20 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Does this mean when you all reverse it the Bush people can chant that Kerry stole the election and Bush is President like the Gore people have done?

Turnabout is fair play right?

How did you all like the fruit punch Jell-o at Supper today in the Asylum, I thought it was grand!!

Plinko!!
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T B
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #18 November 9, 2004 1:29:16 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I don't care which way it goes, I just want to know.


It's done. I've followed all the links, this is some incredibly creative wishful thinking. The article you link to cites (and links) another by someone named Tom Paine. Mr Paine then cites the exit polls, does some creative math (and demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of statisitcs) to arrive at the conclusion Kerry won. Additionally, Mr. Paines article links to "The Clevland Plain Dealer" as a source for his creative math, which in turn does not in anyway substaniate his claim.

In general Mr. Paine claims that if all the discounted votes (92, 672) AND the provisional ballots (155,000 of which about 85,000 were in counties Kerry won, meaning 70,000 were in counties Bush won) Kerry would be the winner. What he fails to mention, the number of discounted votes declined from the 2000 election even though there was more than 3/4 of million more voters. The discounted votes are such things as deliberate no votes, duplicate votes and the infamous "hanging chad". Provisional ballots are generally not counted unless the election is in question. Therefore, even if ALL the discounted votes were re-counted, found to ALL be valid and ALL for Kerry, it still isn't enough for the provisional vote to be counted (Kerry would still be behind by over 40,000 votes).

Provisional ballots are special ballots given to voters who believe they are registered but whose names don't appear on the rolls. The ballots must then be verified as valid, one by one. In the 2000 election in Ohio there were 123,000 provisinal ballots and 90% of them were deemed valid, the expectation is that this year the number would be lower (by even the Democrats reckoning).

Let's assume that ALL the discounted ballots were valid (highly improbable) and they went 70-30 for Kerry. That would be 64,870 more for Kerry and 27,802 for Bush. That still leaves Bush up by 98,932 votes. Let's then assume 90% (a rate higher than anyone believes) of the provisional ballots are valid (that means 139,500 are valid). Let's assume those split 80 -20 for Kerry. That gives Kerry and additional 111,600 and Bush 27,900. Bush STILL WINS OHIO by 15,232 votes. I'm sure that's what the Kerry campaign was looking at before they decided to make the concession. Is it possible Kerry would win? I suppose, but it's also possible to win the Lottery and get struck by lightning, twice, on alternate Ash Wednesdays.

Sorry to say, anyone holding out hope for an Kerry Ohio victory is more than a bit delusional.
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Manopeace
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #19 November 9, 2004 2:21:41 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's OVER!!! Bush won!!! Accept it!!!
I don't like it either...but it's a fact.
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stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #20 November 9, 2004 3:19:15 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Even if he did win Ohio, I, unlike some Republicans in 2000, would be unhappy over Kerry's huge loss in the popular vote and would expect him to decline.
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terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #21 November 9, 2004 8:50:44 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
The reason this isn't true:

If it was, Mary Beth Cahill wouldn't have let Kerry concede....
... James Carville...
... John Edwards...
... Joe Lockhart...
... CBS News/NYTimes...
... Terry McAuliffe...

... and a host of others that would have been screaming from the hilltops that Kerry had won Ohio.

Keep dreaming, keep trying to delegitimize the mandate that Bush got. It just shows you to be a poor loser that is stuck in the past and dreaming.
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Deference
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Reply #22 November 9, 2004 12:38:39 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Keep dreaming, keep trying to delegitimize the mandate that Bush got. It just shows you to be a poor loser that is stuck in the past and dreaming.

What a lack of class. This was a request for more information on a rampant rumour, it in no way reflects some "poor loser stuck in the past "mentality. I can provide you an excellent example of a poor winner in reply #21, though....
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Chemicalkinetics
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #23 November 9, 2004 12:57:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Yes, it's true!

If all votes are counted in Ohio, Kerry will win the presidency!

Try this link:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4201


Is that what we have become? We site a communist site for proof that Bush has lost? Should I go to some neo-nazi site and show that Chinese are stupid?
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Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #24 November 9, 2004 12:59:22 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Can shit be justified as holy or unholy?

The philosophical ramifications boggle the mind.

Plinko!!
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citahellion
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #25 November 9, 2004 1:40:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Holy SHIT!!!

Yes, it's true!

If all votes are counted in Ohio, Kerry will win the presidency!
(link)


This was a request for more information on a rampant rumour


I don't see how you can reasonably apply the latter statement to the former.
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