lula posts:

In my view, a zygote from mixing human/gorilla semen and eggs would be a repugnant monstrosity and a direct contradiction of Divine Creation and Wisdom.

lula posts, IN MY WORLD, A BABY IS NEITHER A MISTAKE NOR A PUNISHMENT...THEY ARE GIFTS AND MIRACLES FROM GOD.

KINGBEE POSTS:

VarekRaith,

I can assure you that neither KFC nor I are uncomfortable about biblical questions. Did you not read KFC's response? It is not about picking and choosing what is literal or what is a metaphor...it's about reading the entire passage in context. Here it is again:

kfc posts #53

There is no doubt that God punishes sins against chastity but not by inflicting pregnancies and abortions as Kingbee asserted.

The way in which He chooses to do it is not for us to question...after all, He's God.

I am still waiting for lula to tell me what kind of soul does a human-gorrila hybrid has. (for the few week the zygote lives before dying of DNA incompatibility)

And why are 1/50 pregnancies ectopic, with 50% of those naturally aborting, and the other 50% killing mother and child (unless surgury is performed to remove the ectopic fetus). Remember you said it is IMPOSSIBLE for a fertilized zygote to occur/grow without a soul.

You did not answer my question Lula. I asked:

I'm specifically addressing the concept of a man and woman creating life. If i'm correct about your logic, a man and woman conceiving life would be considered moral, or "Divine Creation and Wisdom" However, when a scientist creates life in whatever way, then it isn't life? I'm sorry, but I don't see how you - a mortal, fallible human being could claim what is life based off of a book written by humans.

For that matter, what about in nature when species cross-procreate? (1) An example would be wild moose and domesticated horses. They have been known to breed; or ligers or tigons for example.

~A

 Source:

1.      ^ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7379554.stm "The seal then alternated between resting on the penguin, and thrusting its pelvis, trying to insert itself, unsuccessfully."

P.S. I will address your other comment later.

Exactly, that would be considered an either/or fallacy.

Men and women DO NOT create life.  They have sex.  That is not creating life.  Only God can create human beings.  That's why you'll NEVER see one created in a lab.  In fact there's some sort of genetic protection built in that creates an explosion anytime they try to multiply these cells outside of a human body.  As far as I'm aware of they can't get past the four cell stage before it sort of blows up.  

And the book written by humans?  If you're speaking of the bible, although human authors were involved, it was God who was behind the dictation.  This book, is entirely God breathed and not one thing in this book has been proven inaccurate yet.  Pretty good considering it's been around a few thousand years now and every person, place and thing has been historically verified in one way or another.  They're still digging up proof to substantiate the validity of the written scriptures even now. 

so you're claiming to be God now?  Tell you what.....when you start creating humans yourself.....do what you want with them.  Like the joke says.....make sure you create your own dirt first. 

God's ways are not our ways.  We all die, we all have a clock in our systems that are running backwards.  One day, the clock for you and me will stop.  For some the clock doesn't tick very long and for others it does.  God, in his providence declared this particular baby would only live for a short amount of time. It's his perogative, not ours.   David did not have a hard time with it so I'm not so sure why you do.  Nix that.  Actually I do.  David understood where God was coming from.  You don't because you don't spend time with him like David did. 

The child was whisked away to heaven.  It was David who got punished not the child. 

lula posts:

It would not play into procreation becasue only humans procreate, animals breed.

This is where science and theology overlap.

Man and woman alone can not create life, that is, they can't without God...Humans alone procreate with God.

Let's get back to the beginning. Though what we know of God is very incomplete, we Christians believe that God created space, time, and matter. Not only did He create matter, but also organization of matter. Laws of nature were placed into operation by which matter, and energy, space and time both exist and interact.

Genesis tells us that God not only formed Adam and Eve's body, He also created their soul giving them life. So the transcendant character of humans, being both natural and spiritual (made in the image of God), is beyond all other living things. No human body can exist except by way of descent (procreation) from Adam and Eve.

 Since all the particles within the cell are separate units, each not alive as such, but yet working harmoniously together...what animates the total entity? What constitutes living matter? As I've already said, it's the soul that constitutes living matter. The soul is the principle of life.

Yes, human intercourse is not merely a biological action; it's a moral one and that's why fidelty is the essential component of the marriage bond, and why every aspect of marriage is affected by the presence or absence of this virtue.

So you consider a man/gorrila hybrid an unholy abomination? where does its soul come from then? since life cannot exist without a soul, and a zygote cannot grow without one (aka, there is no "god would not put a soul into a baby that would be aborted"), is satan putting the soul in the abomination?

Yet you DO know that those ectopic babies all have souls despite dying and/or killing the mother  long before they even develop a brain, where they are just an indistinguishable bundle of cells...

I KNOW how ectopic pregnancies occur, you don't need to have an MD to do a little bit of reading... I was more interested in the WHY. How is easy, it has to do with the structure of the womb. WHY is asking "why is god putting the soul in the ectop pregnancy which will either be aborted, or die and kill the mother as well).

Whereas sex is:

As well as a synonym for reproduction; whereas reproduction is:

So...having sex results in and is repdroduction which leads to new life.  Hmm, me thinks that is creating life.

Actually, there is. I'm assuming you raised children, correct? I'm sure there are times where you have had to make a choice on things, right? (no pun intended) Well, it seems the Supreme court believes that at least parents have the right to choose - when it comes to their child's education. ( http://www.ed.gov/news/pressreleases/2002/06/06272002e.html ) So if there wasn't the right to choose, then parents wouldn't have the right to choose.

So, by your logic - if there is no right to choose - then there is likely no free will, or freedoms. The right to choose, is in a sense a (moral) natural right because it existed before laws and is one that can stand on its own. It doesn't (in some respects) doesn't necesserily need a government or law system to affirm it.This ties into the right to life, liberty, and happiness/property. If we didn't have the right to choose,then how would we be able to enjoy those inalienable rights?

So frankly, you would be incorrect. While there isn't technically a legal right (save the SCOTUS decision), there is the natural right.

~AldericJourdain

Yes, they took down perfect dictation.  God used imperfect humans to do this.  He always uses man for his purposes.  And no there's no inconsistances.  Not at all.  Man was created last after the beasts.  Read it yourself.  Tell me where it says man was created BEFORE the beasts.   You will find this in Genesis 1&2.  I know exactly what you're referring to but you need to read it yourself and not go by someone's opinion.  The first chapter is very clear day by day and exactly what and who was made on each day.  This is called chronological.  The second chapter zooms in from a topical POV and focuses more on what was about to happen (the pandora's box being opened).  This happens quite often in scripture and can be seen elsewhere. 

Some SS lesson.  What church did you go to that would say there are inconsistancies in the scriptures?  Sounds like the church (humans)  was off because  the scripture is not. 

abstinance and abstinance TRAINING are completely different things

Of course abstinance works, not putting your dick into any women prevents them from getting pregnant.

The issue is weather abstinance TRAINING works. Weather you can go to a school full of horny teens who have no reason to abstain, and lie to them about sex in order to trick them into not haivng any. The answer is no.

I disagree and disrespect every single aspect of abstinance training, thus it is obviously not an effective force in me making my decision. In fact it was very hard for me to make this decision because it was somehow associated with the retardation that is abstinance training, it is counter productive. I would have been MORE willing to abstain for a goal if there was no abstinance training out giving it a bad name.

and you're wrong.  There are many teens who came out of public HS and the sex ed given there and STILL abstained.  Like it or not....you're an example.  Every virgin I've known that made it to the altar pure also went to a public HS.   So it does work.  You've been told (maybe by your parents or teachers) something else and they have deceived you because they have been deceived as well.   They've caved to the cultural pressure. 

When my son got married last year  he and his new wife had a ring ceremony that had nothing to do with exchanging wedding rings.  He and his girlfriend of four years had worn purity rings soon after they started dating.  At the reception they made an announcement that they were very proud to annouce that they did wait and said they are an example that abstinence does work.  They took off their purity rings right there in front of 200 guests.  They then walked over to the two dads and handed the rings to the dads.  My son gave his ring to her dad and the bride gave her ring to his dad.  People were wiping their eyes on the tablecloths.  I saw old men cry that day. 

After that many older people went up to tell my son they were also virgins when they got married.  Some had been married 40,50, 60 years.   He was very surprised to have seen that reaction. 

It's too bad but the younger generation are missing out something very special when it comes to their wedding nights.  For many it's nothing but a ho-hum experience.....been there done that. 

Once you cross the line you can never undo what's been done.  I taught my boys to say to those who might have lauged at their decision..."I can be you anytime I want....but you can never be me." 

loathe as i am to cite fox news, within the past week fox reported:

At least 24 states and the District of Columbia are moving from abstinence instruction to a more comprehensive approach that includes lessons about STD prevention and contraception, a massive shift away from the wait-until-marriage method pushed heavily by the Bush administration.