Could Hillary really make it?

makes you wonder, makes you think.

from JoeUser Forums
Ok, I could go on about how depressed I got when I found out we get to keep George for another four years...but we somehow managed to get by on the last four...so what the heck.

My question is, who do you think will be the next Prez? I havent really seen much talk from either party. Some Dems say Edwards, some say Hillary..etc. that leaves me wondering...could she really make it?

I dont know how not to get flames on this one. If you answer...try not to answer based on your feelings for the Dem or Rep party...well you can if you want I guess. Im just asking you to think and answer if you think that she could get elected Prez in 2008. Not based on party affiliations or anything like that, but based on....do you think she has enough support and popularity to actually get the spot?

There are a number of reasons Im asking. One is....mainly I havent posted something for a while and this was the first thing that came to mind. Second...she would be the first female president. Im wondering if she might actually be able to pull it off and get elected.

Im wondering if America is getting closer to the point where we might actually elect a female or black president. I would hope that we are getting closer. I think we are more likely to elect a female than a black person...but to me, electing either would be a step in the right direction for both.

Ok my post doesnt really have a good ending...but its 2am....cant think clearly. But...what do you think. Do you think that she could get elected or not...why?
democrat
16,678 views 30 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
No, Hillary can't win (PLEASE don't nominate her!!!!) She is too polarizing a figure to get elected. Some people hate her for being Mrs. Clinton, she's too liberal for the South and the Republicans would bury her on the failed health care task force she ran. They only plus I can see is she has charisma, which Kerry and Gore avoided like the plague.
We need a candidate who can win - JUST SAY NO to Hillary.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Republicans would bury her on the failed health care task force


no double-jeopardy protection against being buried twice for the same task force?

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hillary, Edwards and any Democratic from the State of Massachusetts.....No. Democratics need a centrist from the south.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Domestic & external factors may change things dramatically over the next 3 years (crystal balls have almost always been wrong - remember how convinced the Dems were in 2000 that George was a lock to be one-&-gone), but it's hard for me to envision any set of circumstances that would make Hillary an attractive candidate in 2008, in the sense that she could lead the party out of the depths of despair and win over the moderates among the Republicans and independents. Whatever your personal feelings about her, she is inextricably associated with the philosophy of more government as the solution to our problems.

She's never demonstrated an ability to devise innovative or efficient solutions to problems, preferring to throw more money or more elaborate regulations at them, and has pretty much demonstrated her lack of faith in the private sector to solve problems. Remember, too, how many of the Clintonistas were at the center of Kerry's campaign (McAuliffe, Carvill, etc.). Unless she is willing to abandon the staff who have supported her all along & put on a fresh political face, she's going to look like a representative of the same tired old Democrat ways that have fallen into political disfavor. The only smart thing she did was avoid being out front in the hatefest of vindictive Bush-bashing.

Even the ardent Democrats I'm acquainted with blanche & screw up their faces when I mention her name (strangely, more of my close friends are Dems than Republcans), so I think an awful lot would have to change for her to have even a remote chance.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
Short answer, no. She is a terrible public speaker and will galvanize her opposition.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok well two out of five isnt bad. Reminds me of Kindergarten when I give directions and nobody follows them.

I wasnt asking for political opinions...because people would go off and thats exactly what happened.

Now, the question was...do you think that Hillary could possibly be elected. Not based on your own political opinions and dreams...but just do you simply think that she could possibly get elected.

Also...someone the other day in the news made the point of how the Dem party isnt really failing...its just that the Rep Party is managing to take over Dem ideas. That is why it is having problems. Republicans are managing to get into territory that was once deemed very Democrat. I hear people mocking the Dem party...but whats the point when your own Rep party is taking ideas and stances that were once in the territory of the Dems? The Dems havent changed their stands.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Also...someone the other day in the news made the point of how the Dem party isnt really failing...its just that the Rep Party is managing to take over Dem ideas. That is why it is having problems. Republicans are managing to get into territory that was once deemed very Democrat. I hear people mocking the Dem party...but whats the point when your own Rep party is taking ideas and stances that were once in the territory of the Dems? The Dems havent changed their stands.


Then what the hell is that?

Sorry to have cluttered your blog with reasons for my answer. Typical Dem, insulting his guests.

I'll try again.

No.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
...she would be the first female president. Im wondering if she might actually be able to pull it off and get elected.


I think you could expect the Republican Nominee to be Colin Powell is she were nominated.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hillary can't make it. A freshman senator from northeast state? No way. Look back, when is the last time a senator got elected to be a president? When is the last time a northeastern got elected?


Also...someone the other day in the news made the point of how the Dem party isnt really failing...its just that the Rep Party is managing to take over Dem ideas. That is why it is having problems. Republicans are managing to get into territory that was once deemed very Democrat. I hear people mocking the Dem party...but whats the point when your own Rep party is taking ideas and stances that were once in the territory of the Dems? The Dems havent changed their stands.



Wrong! If Democrats do not even know their history and simply listen to someone on TV so that they can be brain-washed, then there is no help. Look, the major differences between Democrat ideas and Republican ideas had been between: social/wearefare government (remember FDR's New Deal?) versus small government (Goldwater and Reagan), working class (Unions and blue-collar workers) versus middle class (small businesses). This is why the old Democrat Party is a union based party and the old Republican party was a business based party. Now, honesty ask yourself for the past decades presidential election? Was it the Republican candiates start talking more about social government, social saftey net and Unions right? Or was it the Democrat candidates talking about small government and middle class interest? Clinton has talked about his view of small governments, and Clinton, Gore and Kerry talked about middle class interests more than labor unions. They don't even mention unions anymore. So which party is stealing ideas from which?

By the way, as today, 2/3 of Republicans are willing to call themselves conservatives but only 1/3 of Democrats describe themselves as liberal. There is a movement for Democrats to be more like Republicans, not the other way.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reminds me of Kindergarten when I give directions and nobody follows them.

I wasnt asking for political opinions...because people would go off and thats exactly what happened.


I was going to respond to this post until you went all school marm on the thread. Lighten up. Sheesh.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Daiwa,

It is their self denial again.  I was going to say that Hillary just could not win due to the EC, but several have mentioned that.  She would be a shoe in for the nomination due to name recognition, but as anotehr pointed out, she has already lost in the EC.

Nominate Lieberman or even a MW governor.  Forget the Sens and reps.  They wont win.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think the Democrats always think the problem is the their candidates. No the problem is the messages, not the messagers. Kerry failuare cannot explain why the republicans gain seats in Senate and in House and governorship. This is historical. It is the first time since FDR era that a reelected president also has his party gains seats. The problem is not just the democratic candidates, but the democratic messagers.

I like to link a very thoughful article annouced by the Democrat Leadership Council (DLC):

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=253002

David Border a liberal columnist also wrote a wonderful piece:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29468-2004Nov5.html
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think the Democrats always think the problem is the their candidates. No the problem is the messages, not the messagers. Kerry failuare cannot explain why the republicans gain seats in Senate and in House and governorship. This is historical. It is the first time since FDR era that a reelected president also has his party gains seats. The problem is not just the democratic candidates, but the democratic messagers.

I like to link a very thoughful article annouced by the Democrat Leadership Council (DLC):

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=253002

David Border a liberal columnist also wrote a wonderful piece:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29468-2004Nov5.html
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
From your article:
Do you think that she could get elected or not...why? (emphasis mine)


Reminds me of Kindergarten when I give directions and nobody follows them.I wasnt asking for political opinions...because people would go off and thats exactly what happened.


You might want to re-read your own article before getting your knickers in a wad.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #17 from PolMach Forums Top
Wrong! If Democrats do not even know their history and simply listen to someone on TV so that they can be brain-washed, then there is no help. Look, the major differences between Democrat ideas and Republican ideas had been between: social/wearefare government (remember FDR's New Deal?) versus small government (Goldwater and Reagan), working class (Unions and blue-collar workers) versus middle class (small businesses). This is why the old Democrat Party is a union based party and the old Republican party was a business based party. Now, honesty ask yourself for the past decades presidential election? Was it the Republican candiates start talking more about social government, social saftey net and Unions right? Or was it the Democrat candidates talking about small government and middle class interest? Clinton has talked about his view of small governments, and Clinton, Gore and Kerry talked about middle class interests more than labor unions. They don't even mention unions anymore. So which party is stealing ideas from which?


Reagan was for small government? His deficits were the standard of the time until the Bush's totally obliterated his records. Typical Republican, he shifted the blame to Democrats even though they passed his agenda.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok my post doesnt really have a good ending...but its 2am....cant think clearly.


Answered the question for you. I'll cut you some slack.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reagan was for small government? His deficits were the standard of the time until the Bush's totally obliterated his records. Typical Republican, he shifted the blame to Democrats even though they passed his agenda.


No offense, whoman. How old are you anyway? You sound like a little kid who has never lived before Reagan or at least never read anything before Reagan. If you don't read the article I response to, then nothing will make sense to you. My article was responsed to someone who claimed that the Republicans stole more Democrats idea than the other way, which is untrue. Because the idea of small government is not from Democratic Party. The idea of promoting business and middle class was not Democratic. More importantly, I am unsure why you were talking about (Reagan) deficits for? Are you confused national debt with government size? They are not the same thing for the sake of god. You can decrease government size and run a deficit. Sometime I feel so tired to write to Democrats because I have to explain everything. Reagan in fact is a small government president when you look at this social agenda. Prior to Reagan the top income tax rate is 70%, and he eventually cut down to 28%. Now, of course, both George H. W. Bush and Clinton has raised the income tax by small amount to 35%. However, if you think his tax cut is so bad, why didn't Clinton raise it back to 70%. Because no sane person would do such a thing. Kerry has talked about tax increase for the richest, but he dare not to claim anything as higher than even 50%. It was Reagan who convinced people that 70% income tax actually decrease total government revenue as such a high rate would inevitably discourage private investment and consumer spending. Many people have doubt at first, but now we seen the 70% income tax era and the 30% one. No republicans nor democrats will ever want to go back to the old days. So, again, isn't it the democrats who borrow the idea of 30-40% income tax from Repubicans? If not, why didn't Clinton or Kerry propose a 70% income tax or even anything above 45%? Why do they stick with the low income tax idea from Reagan?

Reagan increased national defense spending but decreased warefare system and domestic spendings. So he is in fact a small government president, unless you have some whack defintion.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know...frankly...I don't think Hillary would ever get elected.

I think her lack of experience and her gender are definitely two strikes against her.
Reply #21 from PolMach Forums Top
I view is she will never be elected.

It is the Hate factor. I read an article in an early 2003 magazine (can't remember which) that said when a poll was taken and the question was "How do you feel about Hillary Clinton?" The options were Hate, dislike, neutral, like, Love. 34% of the people polled said that they hated her. In my mind, that means there is no way that they would even entertain the idea of voting for her. The poll never said what party these 34% was.

I think if a candidate must write off 34% of the electorate before the campaigning starts. Then they will not win.

That's My Two Cents
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
OK...that last post of mine on Sunday was by my girlfriend, Marcie (ju: Marciehelen), not me.

It is possible to state why or why not you think someone can get elected, without going into a political tirade...that is what I was aiming for.

Daiwa...your post was fine.

For example:
I think she could get elected. Could being the main word here. I think she has a strong name recognition, she has most of the same views as Bill had...which got him elected. She sends out a message, at least to me, that she is a strong person, not willing to back down or anything. There are a bunch of other reasons I think she could get elected...but Im not going to get into it right now...have to get ready for work.

I dont look at polls too seriously...depends on who takes the polls and how they are worded. I could make a poll and have it come out that 89% of people hate breathing.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Democrats will nominate Hillary. You really have no other choice. The only Democrat with enough clout the bend the nomination to his will is Bill Clinton, and you know who he supports.

While Hillary represents New York, she is really from Arkansas.

Expect the new Hillary to be hawkish on defense and more conservative on social values. Hillary will be anti-gay marriage, and more seriously than Kerry.
Reply #24 from PolMach Forums Top
Hillary - yes she could make it (Personally I think she could make it, but also who can predict the nominee 4 years in advance unless they are the incumbent? I think depending on the circumstances and events of the next 4 years nearly anyone could get the nomination)

How about Barack Obama (2012 or 2016?)?
Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
No offense, whoman. How old are you anyway? You sound like a little kid who has never lived before Reagan or at least never read anything before Reagan.


So if you don't support what Reagan did then you are a little kid? I am 41 years old.

Small government, big deficits, got it. Nope doesn't make sense.