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More evidence of a stolen election

politics
2 Pages1 2 
bleedingheartliberal
Independent1
Join Date 11/2004
0
Reply #26 November 6, 2004 5:06:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"The telling statistic is not in the turnout, its in the results. Calhoun county has 82% of those registered as Democrat and only 11 % Republican and Bush pulls 63% of the votes? Duval county has 37 % Republicans compared to 46 % Democrats and Bush pulls almost 60% of the votes? Even in counties won by Kerry, its not by the margin one would expect. Gadsen county 83% registered Democrats compared to 11% Republican, and Kerry can only get 70 % of the vote? Less than 3000 registered Republicans in that county and yet in the final vote talley, Bush received over 6000 votes."

I think you would need more supporting evidence. If you saw those kind of differences validated with exit polls you would have a huge case. Don't underestimate the power of this years FEMA money. When it was flowing one thing the news was questioning was the amount that went to counties that were relatively unaffected. Put yourself in these voters shoes and you might see why a democrat there voting republican might not be such an anomaly.
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bleedingheartliberal
T B
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #27 November 6, 2004 5:31:32 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
90 percent of those 40 percent party registrants voted down party lines


That's the way I read it also. However, I could not subtantiate the claim, which is why I asked where to find the data set.
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bleedingheartliberal
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #28 November 6, 2004 8:54:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You're in a deep hole and what do you do? Call for more shovels.

See you in China.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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bleedingheartliberal
whoman69
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #29 November 6, 2004 9:06:27 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Here you go. Partisans vote for their own party 90% of the time.

Link
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bleedingheartliberal
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #30 November 6, 2004 9:06:54 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #30 By: Daiwa - 11/6/2004 8:54:12 PM
You're in a deep hole and what do you do? Call for more shovels.

See you in China.

Cheers,
Daiwa


Nah, he called for a steam shovel!
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bleedingheartliberal
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #31 November 6, 2004 9:08:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #31 By: whoman69 - 11/6/2004 9:06:27 PM
Here you go. Partisans vote for their own party 90% of the time


that may be. But you have no "proof" that they did any more than we have proof they didn't
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bleedingheartliberal
Chemicalkinetics
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #32 November 6, 2004 9:14:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The reason that Nixon did not protest the results is because his complicity would be brought to the front as well as the other side. The reason Republicans can win elections is that in most states the number of voters for any party is under 40% and the independents make the difference. Nationally the average is that close to 90 % of those who consider themselves Democrat vote Democrat, and the same for Republicans.


The facts that Democrat vote 90% for a democratic candidate is only true this election. In many previous election, Democrats often vote republican for president. Remember the term, Reagan Democrats? Look at the voting pattern in 1984, 1988, 1992.
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bleedingheartliberal
Cappy1507
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #33 November 6, 2004 9:25:04 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
What i also care about is people who just cant accept defeat, that just cant believe it could have happened if cheating DIDNT occur. People who cant understand the math....that even if all these "suspicious" counties or whatever went 100% to Kerry, it still wouldnt have been enough for a win.


Just to play devils advocate, lets say that information is uncovered that Bush lost Ohio AND Florida due to voting irregularities, if not out right fraud. Which would give Kerry 299 in the EC.

What would you suggest Bush do?
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bleedingheartliberal
chiprj
Join Date 06/2004
+1
Reply #34 November 6, 2004 9:25:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Maybe we should dump the electoral college and use exit polls to elect the president...
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bleedingheartliberal
Chemicalkinetics
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #35 November 6, 2004 9:26:31 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Just to play devils advocate, lets say that information is uncovered that Bush lost Ohio AND Florida due to voting irregularities, if not out right fraud. Which would give Kerry 299 in the EC.

What would you suggest Bush do?



Depends when they find out. If they find out in the next month or so. Bush should step down. If they find out in 2 years, I think Bush should stay on.
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bleedingheartliberal
T B
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #36 November 6, 2004 9:40:51 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Just to play devils advocate, lets say that information is uncovered that Bush lost Ohio AND Florida due to voting irregularities, if not out right fraud


They have to find out, conclusively (not some questionable, massaged, partially scientific analysis), within 41 days after the election (which is when the electoral college casts it's votes). After the votes are cast it's a done deal as far as I'm concerned.
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bleedingheartliberal
msladydeath
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #37 November 6, 2004 11:05:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You're in a deep hole and what do you do? Call for more shovels.

See you in China.

Cheers,
Daiwa


I will see you in Australia (well, actually, about 100 miles north west of australia, if I remember right)
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bleedingheartliberal
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #38 November 6, 2004 11:46:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
msladydeath -

That's one of the great things about the blogoshpere - it's self-correcting.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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bleedingheartliberal
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #39 November 6, 2004 11:51:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
There is more evidence of the meltdown of the left.

Link

In addition, WiseFawn is agitating on his blog about contesting the results in Ohio & Florida, making all sorts of crazy claims, and blocking any comments.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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bleedingheartliberal
Psikotik
Join Date 01/2003
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Reply #40 November 7, 2004 12:03:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm a Democrat, but let's face it folks, BOTH sides have their "dirty little tricks". I'd like to see who won the dead vote this election . But seriously, the entire election system is a joke and could be made MUCH better. If I can use my ATM card anywhere in the world, why can't I have a card that let's me vote in any precinct, checks to make sure I'm not voting multiple times and reports my vote to a central database so that results are easily tabulated.
And yes, we need to let it go. No matter what happened the ref didn't call a foul, so play on........ And by the way what is DU?
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bleedingheartliberal
bleedingheartliberal
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #41 November 7, 2004 1:13:33 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
DU is Democratic Underground, a blog.

This just might materialize and be the "bombshell" of this case. My fingers are crossed Link

A Democratic Congressional candidate allegedly has the evidence. We'll see how this plays out...And by the way, anyone who doesn't think that every vote should be counted is unreasonable. And anyone who doesn't think the suspicious data from the Florida counties needs to be investigated needs a reality check. Now, I am going to prevent some info that the folks at DU put together, and you can all check this for yourself. Then I want you right wingers to try and dispute it.
Link
Link 1:
Link
Note the total vote count turnout with all the counties totalled up.
Link 2:
Link
Note the total number of provisional ballots
Link 3:
Link
At link 3, go across the columns and add all the numbers and note the total.

Point is:
Link 3 shows a total of 7,588,422. Link 2 shows a total of 7,350,900 from all the counties. If you subtract those numbers, there is a difference of 237,522 votes. Where did all the extra votes come from? Somebody please tell me, there might be a valid explanation....
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bleedingheartliberal
Lee1776
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #42 November 7, 2004 1:49:35 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
And by the way, anyone who doesn't think that every vote should be counted is unreasonable.


I don't know anybody that has said on this site that every vote should not be counted. What most people that you seem to disagree with is that every vote should be checked to see if it is legal first. But the Democrats call the disinfanchisement.

"Vote early, Vote often" remember?

That's My Two Cents
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bleedingheartliberal
Zoomba
Join Date 11/2002
+114
Reply #43 November 7, 2004 1:56:56 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ok, I'm a democrat, I voted for Kerry, and I was disappointed (but not surprised) when Bush won. That said...

GIVE IT UP! I'm sick and tired of this conspiracy crap. I could go with it a bit in the last election when the whole thing came down to a few hundred votes (but after the 3d or 4th recount, it was settled in my mind), but this time it's not even close. Last time the left was crying about losing the electoral but winning the popular, now with Bush winning both we have nothing to complain about... so we pull this. Yes, if EVERY SINGLE vote in contention went to Kerry, things might be different. But you know what the chances of that are? Zero, zip, zilch.

Why can't we just admit we lost fair and square? We ran one of the worst campaigns immaginable. We ran one of the worst candidates possible from our party... Bush was strong, decisive, likable by the average citizen... and he spoke to what a MAJORITY of the country wants.

Take the loss, come back in 4 years and try to do a better job next time!
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bleedingheartliberal
bleedingheartliberal
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #44 November 7, 2004 9:24:13 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's not a matter of every single vote in contention going to Kerry, you are missing the point. It's a matter of hackers potentially hacking into the voting machines in Florida and fouling up the results. There is a growing amount of evidence that points to massive fraud.

For those interested, BlackBoxVoting.org is beginning to compile evidence.
Link

Zoomba, the "worst candidate possible" got more votes than any democrat in the history of this country.
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bleedingheartliberal
LadyCleve
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #45 November 7, 2004 10:08:09 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Okay, here is some info copied from CNN from their exit poll. This shows the percentage of voters registered as Dem, Rep, or Ind, and the percentage of each who voted for Bush, Kerry, and Nader.

VOTE BY PARTY ID BUSH KERRY NADER
TOTAL 2004 2004 2004

Democrat (37%) 11% 89% 0%

Republican (37%) 93% 6% 0%

Independent (26%) 48% 49% 1%

That means that while 11% of voters registered as Democrats voted for the Republican presidential candidate, only 6% of Republicans voted for the opposition, with Independents leaning slightly to the left. Since Dems and Reps are represented equally (at least in this poll) I think it would show that the Democrats are themselves responsible for Bush's re-election.
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bleedingheartliberal
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #46 November 7, 2004 10:17:11 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #46 By: bleedingheartliberal - 11/7/2004 9:24:13 AM
It's not a matter of every single vote in contention going to Kerry, you are missing the point. It's a matter of hackers potentially hacking into the voting machines in Florida and fouling up the results. There is a growing amount of evidence that points to massive fraud.

For those interested, BlackBoxVoting.org is beginning to compile evidence.
Link

Zoomba, the "worst candidate possible" got more votes than any democrat in the history of this country.


"When" they can confirm this, *then* I'll believe it. Until then, bugger off mate! Your handle says it all!
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bleedingheartliberal
nyvelion
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #47 November 7, 2004 10:45:54 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I think the election was stolen, but not from Kerry. It's very one dementional thinking in politics that seems common in many of you to beleive that Kerry and Bush were the only ones who could win.

This article is evidence of the real winner -->
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s9i6911
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bleedingheartliberal
T B
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #48 November 7, 2004 11:53:30 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Link 3 shows a total of 7,588,422. Link 2 shows a total of 7,350,900 from all the counties. If you subtract those numbers, there is a difference of 237,522 votes. Where did all the extra votes come from? Somebody please tell me, there might be a valid explanation....


First of all, what does it say at the top of each of those pages? UNOFFICIAL RESULTS. Might you imagine that has something to do with it? The provisional ballot page clearly shows NOT ALL the counties were counted yet (and likely won't be because they don't count them when the outcome is not in question). The second link (the one to this page 1st SET OF UNOFFICIAL RETURNS) has OLD numbers on it (or maybe these are the newer numbers and the last link has the older ones) . Many of the counties have their own "Supervisor of Elections" pages and guess what, the numbers DON'T MATCH what is reported at the central site (in some instances even the number of registered voters don't match, nor do the turnout percentages). In some instances the number of votes cast (at the county sites) is now greater than the number of votes (the number of valid votes is less than those cast, it would be plausible to expect the system takes time to weed out the fraudulent ones). It would also be plausible that the priority is not updating the data reported on the websites because the ELECTION IS OVER and they may still be counting and verifying the votes (some results were updated on the 5th).

From the Escambia County Page:
We are not responsible for missing or incorrect information on these pages, we do our best to keep information current but mistakes can be made.

For those interested, BlackBoxVoting.org is beginning to compile evidence.


Where? I didn't see any hard evidence. I looked at (among other things) the "trouble slips", the sum total of evidence is "HAD TROUBLE CONNECTING" WOW!! that's some revelation. I never have trouble connecting to my ISP. There are some cute pictures of the software engineers and plenty of innuendo. I don't think it's a bad thing that there is an organization putting pressure on possible system flaws, it can only help (BTW much of their "evidence" is from 2001, I wouldn't hold out for a change in this election outcome).

From Blackbox:

Since RAS is not adequately protected, anyone in the world, even terrorists, who can figure out the server's phone number can change vote totals without being detected by observers.

Right. A significant number of people can't program their VCR's or DVD players but they can change the votes. Are we supposed to believe that terrorists or hackers would dial in and change votes IN FAVOR of Bush? Maybe it was those 527's, Anarchists for Bush or Al Qaeda for Bush. This reminds me of the O.J. defense, random arrows in numerous directions to cause doubt (somebody will buy some of it). Wonder if Johnnie Cochran is on the Blackbox board. Problem is, the burden of proof is on them (and they've got about 36 days left), it's not enough to cause some doubt.
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bleedingheartliberal
Cappy1507
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #49 November 7, 2004 12:11:14 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums

Reply #16 By: CrispE - 11/6/2004 11:21:35 AM
drmiler:

Once again, you question whether abuses occur, even when your own party MADE THE ACCUSATIONS in many cases?! When are you going to realize that an election manipulated in any way is wrong?


Blakbox.org is a non-partisan organization.

And who do you think is going to make the accusations, the Republicans? Since there seems to be questions, especially one machine in Franklin county, why aren't THEY looking into it? There have been thousands of complaints, logged on the 2nd before the outcome was known, by people that voted for Kerry on one type of touch screen ballot machine, and saw their ballot cast for Bush despite punching the Kerry button.

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bleedingheartliberal
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
+351
Reply #50 November 7, 2004 1:25:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
There have been thousands of complaints, logged on the 2nd before the outcome was known, by people that voted for Kerry on one type of touch screen ballot machine, and saw their ballot cast for Bush despite punching the Kerry button.


Can you give us any details about this, Cappy? Thousands?

Cheers,
Daiwa
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