What I learned about living in an occupied territory

from JoeUser Forums

I was born and grew up under foreign occupation. We even had the blockade, the siege, and a wall around our densely-populated area, everything you need for a full-blown occupation.

Here is what I learned:

1. If you don’t fire rockets at the surrounding country, they probably won’t shoot at you a lot. (I figured this out by not firing rockets at that country.)

2. If you don’t attack occupation forces, they probably won’t fight you. (I figured this out by not attacking members of the occupying armies. Sometimes I didn’t even throw rocks. Actually, I never threw rocks at them.)

3. If you manage to get a visa for the surrounding country, try entering it without a bomb belt around your waist, even if the country is likely to have lots of schools filled with children you could easily blow up. (One way to make sure that didn’t happen was VERY strict border controls enforced by the surrounding country. Another way to make sure that didn’t happen was not wearing bomb belts.)

If anybody has any questions about how to live in an occupied territory surrounded by a hostile country, feel free to ask me.

 

occupation german_cleverness
12,113 views 27 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

...

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

What about the rape? I understand that rape is often a massive problem in occupied territories due to the preponderance of single, hated soldiers. The US has come close to being kicked out of Japan a couple of times due to rape problems.

Was that ever an issue in Germany and how did the civilian populace deal with it?

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top



What about the rape? I understand that rape is often a massive problem in occupied territories due to the preponderance of single, hated soldiers.

End of quote


I have heard stories about the Russian military doing that a lot, and few stories about American soldiers. I myself can only talk about the 1980s. The only contact I had with the occupying troops was playing baseball with them in their barracks and once a year celebrating the friendship festival. Plus I was born on a hospital built by the occupation, "Benjamin Franklin" it was called.




The US has come close to being kicked out of Japan a couple of times due to rape problems.

Was that ever an issue in Germany and how did the civilian populace deal with it?

End of quote


I have never heard much about it. Lots of German girls got married to American soldiers though.


Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Cacto,

     Having been stationed in Japan on and off for nearly 18 years, I know of only 3 instances of Rape by members of the military against Japanese civilians. In the cases that I know about (and trust me it is a huge thing) all those involved are currently rotting where they belong in a cell eating fish heads and rice (yes that is what they are fed). In each of those cases the outrage by the members of the Military against those who committed these heinous acts nearly eclipsed that of the Japanese people.

      I think that you have a distorted idea of what the US presense in Japan is, 99.9999% of the time it is a great mutualy bennificial arrangement and there is a tremendious amount of respect and generousity between the US Military and the Japanese people.

Chris

 

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

I have never heard much about it. Lots of German girls got married to American soldiers though.
End of quote

Fair enough. It's something I've heard about, but never really been able to verify.

I think that you have a distorted idea of what the US presense in Japan is, 99.9999% of the time it is a great mutualy bennificial arrangement and there is a tremendious amount of respect and generousity between the US Military and the Japanese people.
End of quote

I only really know of military base rape and sex camps from a university course on the ramifications of power projection, and it was an ideologically pure lecturer given to extremes, so thanks for the real deal on the Okinawa situation.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

military base rape and sex camps from a university course on the ramifications of power projection,
End of quote

I'm curious now....What is a sex camp?

. The US has come close to being kicked out of Japan a couple of times due to rape problems.
End of quote

I was in Okinawa when one of these rapes occurred.  It was perpetrated by some Marines who were not stationed in Japan, but came in for temporary duty.  And as Grog stated, they were punished.

Having traveled quite a bit with the military (all over Asia especially) I can say rape cases are few and far between.  In fact, what is most shocking to me, is the extent the locals go to provide sex to American GI's, at a "rock bottom" price of course. 

Are there any American military installations over seas without a brothel or two right outside the gate? 

I don't know.  I've never seen one.

 

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

If you don’t attack occupation forces, they probably won’t fight you. (I figured this out by not attacking members of the occupying armies. Sometimes I didn’t even throw rocks. Actually, I never threw rocks at them.)
End of quote

I dont know what to say leauki !!!!

Really .... what happens to "give me liberty or give me death"?

I dont know about you or anyone else for that matter ... If it was me and my country, God forbid, was occupied i will throw death itself at them if i could.

we did that to the British ... ever heard that?

may be you chose not to do it, but the overwhelming majority of any pobulation in any country at any time in history did as we did ... they fought their occupiers ... and they got their liberty and independence...

life is not worth living without liberty leauki ....

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

What is a sex camp?
End of quote

This:

Having traveled quite a bit with the military (all over Asia especially) I can say rape cases are few and far between.  In fact, what is most shocking to me, is the extent the locals go to provide sex to American GI's, at a "rock bottom" price of course. 

Are there any American military installations over seas without a brothel or two right outside the gate?

End of quote

It's just the fancy way of talking about it so that it fits in nicely with the refugee camp theme of the course. Basically the classes on sex, rape and military camps focused on the role projected power played in encouraging sex slavery and the spread of communicable disease, with the corresponding falllout for the locals and the reputation of the US (who is almost always the projecting power in these circumstances).

It seemed reasonable enough when I studied it, but we've all passed a lot of water since those days and it's interesting to hear the perspective of those who've experienced it.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting cactoblasta, reply 2
What about the rape? I understand that rape is often a massive problem in occupied territories due to the preponderance of single, hated soldiers. The US has come close to being kicked out of Japan a couple of times due to rape problems.

Was that ever an issue in Germany and how did the civilian populace deal with it?
End of cactoblasta's quote

Wow. Is there any anti-American propaganda you don't believe?

Rape does happen and it's deplorable but I find it amazing that you would single out the US so gratuitiously when its occupational forces have amongst the best reputations in the world.

Also, feel free to back up your assertion with some evidence. US was close to being kicked out of Japan?  Really? That's news. 

The most I've ever heard was an individual rape case in Okanawa a some years ago causing a stir.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Wow. Is there any anti-American propaganda you don't believe?
End of quote

One tries.

More seriously, Leauki, what was the worst thing about living in an occupied territory?

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's just the fancy way of talking about it so that it fits in nicely with the refugee camp theme of the course.
End of quote

haha...ok.  It sounded like a summer camp, with uh, benefits.  ;P

 

Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top

Berlin wasn't really occupied after '49. Yah it had a special status until 1990 but after 1971 (Berlinabkommen + Transitabkommen) it belonged de facto to the Federal Republic of Germany.

And the "hostile" country was a country of german people of the who didn't want anything more than to live on the other side of the wall and those were the real occupied ones - not West-Berlin. The Wall was to avoid people getting inside into your area not to keep you out, thats a very big difference.

Its hardly comparable to the situation in Gaza, where the people inside the "occupied" territory are not richer than those outside, where 2 different cultures face each other, where there massive unemployment and is a low education inside which in sum apparently is a good breeding ground for terrorism.

You compare apples and orang-utans here. I have been called out on this forum for comparing things much much similar to each other.

According to your profile you are 31 - the blockade was 1948.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

And the "hostile" country was a country of german people of the who didn't want anything more than to live on the other side of the wall

End of quote

Yes, that's exactly the situation around Gaza, except the Israelis are not German.

 

The Wall was to avoid people getting inside into your area not to keep you out, thats a very big difference.

End of quote

Yes, that is a big difference. While East-Germany _claimed_ that the wall was supposed to keep fascists _out_ of East-Germany, it was really to keep East-Germans _in_.

Israel's wall is indeed supposed to keep fascists out. And it works.

 

You compare apples and orang-utans here.

End of quote

That was my point exactly. But the main difference was simply that _we_, the people of West-Berlin, did _not_ try to exterminate East-Germans (or Russians) and didn't attack East-Germany.

The Russians were well-prepared for an attack, but we never did.

That's how an occupation can work.

But it required me to learn the three things listed.

 

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

But it required me to learn the three things listed.
End of quote

You were also one people prior to separation, rather than multiple groups who'd been experiencing considerable tension since the turn of the century, which was only exacerbated by the belligerence of Arab neighbours and the laziness of the British Empire.

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Big One,

First, you make it seem like it was Israel's fault some how that the PA are so poor. How is it solely their fault?  Just so you know the WALL was not always there.  I know that may come to shock to you as well.  Also Gaza was some very good land.  When the Israelies handed Gaza to the PA, it was still irrigation in there and it was a prime place for grapes, olives, and farm land.  Now, its been totally rav up, before even all the fighting.

Second, is it the U.S's fault that Mexico is very very poor and now could become an extreme problem to the U.S's secruity?


Granted, I will say that both the U.S. and Israel could have done some more. At the same time the other side needs to be willing to TRY TO MAKE AN EFFORT.  Why does everyone always put the whole load on Israel to aid the PA? As in that they should be the ones completely helping that PA and that they should be the ones taking care of them. 


When I lived over there, NONE of the Arab countries EVER assisted the PA with humanitarianly.  Yes, they assisted them in other ways, but NEVER humanitarianly.

Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top

I just stated facts, I didn't blame anyone for it (and I don't think there is anyone to blame at all) and you are just projecting things on me.

Secondly, calling Mexico very very poor is a incredible overexaggeration, they have a GDP per capita of nearly 10000 $ that is more than some of the new members of the EU.  (I also don't see what a topic about an occupied territory has anything to do with Mexico). Extreme problem to US security is also kind of fearmongering, its a rather short border (compared with EUs outer borders) you have and its even the sole outer border with a poor country the USA has and you have very big oceans between you and Africa and Asia, don't tell me the USA can't handle that.

Seriously why are you so aggressive towards me, did I write something untrue, did I insult someone? The discussion climate some people cause here is really very rough.

Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

What about the rape?
End of quote

I have heard stories about the Russian military doing that a lot, and few stories about American soldiers
End of quote

Having been stationed in Japan on and off for nearly 18 years, I know of only 3 instances of Rape by members of the military against Japanese civilians.
End of quote

I'm curious now....What is a sex camp?
End of quote

What does all this have to do with the article's subject matter?

is that a way to avoid the real issue?

Is that the great diversion or what?

Its hardly comparable to the situation in Gaza,
End of quote

you can say that again ....

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

you can say that again ....

End of quote

Yes, that was my point.

It was totally different.

However, if we, the people of West-Berlin had fired rockets into East-Germany on a daily basis, and celebrated whenever we hit a school or kindergarden, and we were known for trying to smuggle bombs into East-Germany whenever we were allowed to cross the border (and if the strict border controls existed BECAUSE of our attempts to do that); THEN West-Berlin would have been very much like Gaza. The Russians wouldn't have seen the good-natured fun of it all, I am sure.

In that case the only difference between Gaza and West-Berlin would have been that our enemy wouldn't have provided us with healthcare and electricity. The communists are very much unlike Jews.

 

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting the_Peoples_Party, reply 15


Big One,
First, you make it seem like it was Israel's fault some how that the PA are so poor. How is it solely their fault?  Just so you know the WALL was not always there.  I know that may come to shock to you as well.  Also Gaza was some very good land.  When the Israelies handed Gaza to the PA, it was still irrigation in there and it was a prime place for grapes, olives, and farm land.  Now, its been totally rav up, before even all the fighting.
Second, is it the U.S's fault that Mexico is very very poor and now could become an extreme problem to the U.S's secruity?
Granted, I will say that both the U.S. and Israel could have done some more. At the same time the other side needs to be willing to TRY TO MAKE AN EFFORT.  Why does everyone always put the whole load on Israel to aid the PA? As in that they should be the ones completely helping that PA and that they should be the ones taking care of them. 
When I lived over there, NONE of the Arab countries EVER assisted the PA with humanitarianly.  Yes, they assisted them in other ways, but NEVER humanitarianly.

End of the_Peoples_Party's quote

its the assumption that everyone who is poor is poor because they are oppressed, and everyone who is rich is rich because he is oppressing someone. I have actually heard rediculous tales that israel was built on the backs of palastinian slaves, which is why they are poor and israel isn't.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

leuki, you grew up in an occupied territory? which one?

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

Leauki, you grew up in an occupied territory? which one?

End of quote

West-Berlin.

 

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

This was very interesting. Thanks. Still, I think "Gaza" has more complex history and problems than West-Berlin. But, I did understand what you wanted to mean.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting fussyvet, reply 22
This was very interesting. Thanks. Still, I think "Gaza" has more complex history and problems than West-Berlin. But, I did understand what you wanted to mean.
End of fussyvet's quote

you are kidding me right? more complex history and problems? Have you been asleep during all those history lessons about world war one and two? there are not nearly as many players or issues in gaza. Heck germany was split between the allies and the russians after they lost.

Reply #24 from PolMach Forums Top

I still fail to see how West-Berlin was occupied (okay they were de jure but not de facto)  and especially how they were occupied by russians as you make it sound. If they were occupied they were occupied by France, UK and USA not by Russia and actually West-Berlin has been a island of freedom surrounded by a occupied country. Comparing West-Berlin to Kaesong (this special capitalist zone in north korea) would be a better comparison and even that would be very far stretched.

And Taltamir how exactly did West-Berlin (West-Berlin is a term established after the war was over) have nearly as big troubles as Gaza had? They certainly had a lot less trouble than the people in the GDR who certainly had a lot less trouble then the people in the SU.

As Citizen of  West-Berlin you could travel everywhere without too big problems after 1971, you lived in a rich democracy, unlike the rest of the republic there even was no conscription (people even moved to west-berlin for exactly that reason).

Yah sure there were was this wall with german soldiers on it and you had to fear that they start another blockade but that it is no way comparable to Gaza. And if a war between Russia and USA started you'd died a few minuten earlier then the others in a nuclear apocalypse.

 

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Maybe the people in gaza strip would have less trouble if their religion did not require them to kill infidels.

That is definitely a problem that the germans didn't have after world war 2