Leauki

Join Date 02/2004

+85

Israel's History and the Necessity of Jew-free Zones

For 3000 years have Israelites lived in the land of Israel. For less than 200 years was Israel under the control of Arabs. For the longest time it was part of Turkey.

In the late 19th centuries Jews bought land in Israel and started settling there. In 1948 they were a majority at the coast, the Galil, and the Negev. By that time Turkey had lost the region to Britain. And Britain divided "Palestine (Land of Israel)", as it was officially called, into three: Transjordan, Jewish majority Cisjordan, and Arab majority Cisjordan. After 1949 all Jews who had bought land in the first and third territory had fled to Jewish majority Cisjordan, which had become the state of Israel. Since 1967 there are again Jews in Hevron and other formerly Jewish villages in the "West Bank".

The story about Jews (and Americans for some reason) driving "Palestinians" from their land is a classic story about Jews buying land and thus violating the rights of, apparently, more honest people. It's not a new story. It has happened whenever Jews bought land anywhere.

And what if Hamas succeeded and the Jews were driven away or killed? Would the Arabs or Turks give us back the money we paid for the land? Would the remaining Jews be allowed to return to Tunisia or Iraq or whereever they came from? And what would be the point?

Looking at a map of the middle east, with so many Arab states despite the fact that about half of the inhabitants of what is known as the "Arab League" (including "Palestine") are not Arabs, I find it hard to understand how anyone, liberal or conservative, can come to the conclusion that the problem is "not enough Arab states".

"Out there, in the world, all the walls were covered with graffiti: 'Yids, go back to Palestine,' so we came back to Palestine, and now the worldatlarge shouts at us: 'Yids, get out of Palestine.'"

-- Amos Oz.

It should be noted that in the 1930s and later, probably resulting from the spread of nationalism from Europe, Arab countries did indeed force Jews to go to "Palestine". And now all Jews from Arab countries, with the exception of a few thousand in Morocco and Tunisia and about 35 individuals in Bahrain, are in Israel, living in bunkers. That's an improvement over their grand parents living standards in Arab countries, certainly; but it's hardly a reason to "resist" them.

There are several dozen Jew-free Arab states.

Those countries are factually and legally Jew-free. The UN also tries to enforce a Jew-free West Bank (meaning that those Jews who had lived in Hevron before the Arabs ever arrived are no longer allowed to live there). I really don't think the Jews are the problem.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

How many of the world's problems have been known to have been caused by Jews buying land and living on it?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jews are not the problem. nazism is. And befoer some twit goes invoking Godwin's law, the simple fact remains. A major aim of Nazism was the erradication of Jews. Apparently, it did not die with the Third Reich, but was just smuggled out to other countries - under the watchful - and approving - eye of the UN.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Jews are not the problem.

You and I know that.

But a Jewish inhabitant of the West Bank is a "violent settler" for others.

Successfully updated karma reason!

anti-semitism is no invention of the Third Reich but a ill mind set which is much older, so no it wasn't smuggled out from the UN (you must really hate the UN) , its been already in all the european countries for many hundred years. I'd really like to see a source for the UN trying to force jews out of west bank, it sounds a bit hard to believe.

Gaza is a total mess. 1,5 Million people living on 450 sq² with at least 80% relying on external support, you would get terror everywhere on the world under these circumstances and no military offensive is going to solve that problem (except for a massive genocide but I will not call that a solution). Israel, especially the palestinian areas suffer from massive overpopulation and except for voluntary resettlement (which needs big enough incentives to work which would probably cost thousands of millions so it won't happen) I don't see any solution which will stop attack on Israel for longer than a few weeks or at best a few months.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I don't understand that logic.

Of course anti-Semitism is much older, but why do you think that that disproves that the UN "smuggled" it out from Europe?

Arab nationalism IS a product of European, especially German, nationalism. It's not a local thing.

And yes, I hate the UN too.

I'd really like to see a source for the UN trying to force jews out of west bank, it sounds a bit hard to believe.

"The establishment and expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have been described as "having no legal validity" by the UN Security Council in resolutions 446, 452, 465 and 471. These resolutions were made under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter which relates to the "Pacific Settlement of Disputes" between parties, and as such have no enforcement mechanisms and are generally considered to have no binding force under international law. In 1971, however, a majority of the then International Court of Justice (ICJ) members asserted in the non-binding Namibia advisory opinion that all UN Security Council resolutions are legally binding. This assertion by the ICJ has been countered by Erika De Wet and others."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#Legal_background

You will also notice that there is no UN institution looking after Jewish refugees (from the West Bank in 1948 or any Arab country at any time before or after 1948), or giving aid to those refugees, or building schools for them etc..

Jewish "settlers" who had lived in Hevron on the West Bank for 3000 years were not only expelled by the Arabs in 1948 but were never recognised by the UN as having had a right to live in their homes ever at all. I assume the UN originally meant _all_ refugees, Jewish or Arab, when they reacted to the 1948 war against Israel; but subsequently all the UN did was help Arab refugees and demand rights and privileges on their behalf.

The UN also never condemned the Arab states for expelling or killing their Jewish populations and no attempts have been made by the UN to seek compensation for lost property or family members.

In effect the expulsion of Jews from all Arab countries (except Morocco and eventually Tunisia) has been legalised and promoted by the UN.

Note that the very term "Israeli settlement" for villages that have existed for over 3000 years until 1948 is quite racist and shows the attitude towards Jews living on the "wrong" side of the green line.

The "green line" is officially the armistice line between Israel and the Arabs in 1948, but has since been declared, by the UN, the official line delimiting the zone where Jews and Arabs are alloed to live (Israel) and the zone where Jews are not allowed to live.

According to Israeli law (as well as Turkish and British law which might presumably apply to parts of the country that never became an independent state) it is legal for Jews to buy land and live on it. (I realise that some "settlements" might be located on stolen land. But the UN do not refer solely to those when they speak of "illegal settlements". I am all for disbanding villages located on land that wasn't bought.)

According to "International Law" it is illegal for a Jew to buy land from an Arab on the "wrong" side of the green line.

Looks to me like Gaza has about the same population density as Bahrain, most of the Netherlands, and West-Berlin during the cold war.

I grew up in West-Berlin during the cold war. We also relied on external support, especially during the blockade (when everything was flown in via aircraft, including a complete power plant).

But for some reason neither Bahrain nor the Netherland sor West-Berlin have been known for high levels of terrorism.

I therefore reject your notion that such a situation would result in terror everywhere in the world.

Genocide is not a solution acceptable to Israel but both Hamas and the PLO have proposed the idea several times.

Terrorism is not the result of poverty or population density.

The people of Gaza have a higher standard of living than Egyptians and Jordanians. All three have a much higher standard of living than many Africans.

Terrorism is the result of a sick culture. It doesn't matter how rich or poor the people are. Osama Bin Laden is/was a millionaire. Arafat was also a millionaire. The average "poor" Arab is not a terrorist.

Successfully updated karma reason!

so no it wasn't smuggled out from the UN (you must really hate the UN)

I hate people who cant read - even when they quote you. For the ESL out there, let me repeat:

smuggled out to other countries - under the watchful - and approving - eye of the UN.

If you are going to debate, debate what is stated, not what you want it to say.

Successfully updated karma reason!