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The end of WinCustomize

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The end of WinCustomize

...as we know it...

from WinCustomize Forums

The new subsription drive has started...

This is a site that gets 90,000 visitors a day.  And today it's gotten 9 subscriptions or renewals during the subscription drive. $260 down, $49,740 to go in about a month to re-do the site.

There are two different visions for the site. Let's call them the community versus commercial views.  I'm on the commercial side.  Zoomba/ID/jafo are likely on the community side.

We've estimated that the new site is going to cost around $50k to make.  Stardock is going to pay for anything that the community doesn't come up with. But in return, the more Stardock pays into it, the more say it's going to have on the design.

I'm pretty sure that the core skinning community is no longer big enough to pay the bills and that's fine. Skinning has become one of those ominipresent things that, because it's not a niche, doesn't really have a strong core following like it used to. It has millions of users but relatively few who really care about a "skinning community" any more than people really care about a core World of Warcraft community. Skinning is everywhere these days.

The new WC, the commercial one, will be radically different than the WC we have today.  First, the S-corporation that runs WinCustomize will get disolved and become part of Stardock Software (which makes WindowBlinds, Object Desktop, etc.).  

Second, WC will be funded out of Stardock Software's marketing budget. 

Now this may sound bad but let's face it, most people come here for Stardock related content.  When this site started, programs like Winamp, Hoverdesk, WinStep, ICQ Plus and others were pretty significant.  Today, it's pretty much all about WindowBlinds, DeskScapes, IconPackager, wallpapers and a that's about it.  

The community won't disappear but obviously the site will become much more Stardock oriented and the days of WinCustomize as a quasi-independent entity will come to an end.

See what we have in mind: https://forums.wincustomize.com/335824

490,712 views 332 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Both inevitable and understandable. Times have changed and everything must pay its way. I don't see a subscriptipn drive geeting the required cash so Stardock must do what it has to do |-)

Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top

so it will be hard to sell stardock products in this year

 

I dont think so.. the more people stay home and not spend money...out... the more they are at their PC's.

Seems to me even a recession wont stop SD from doing well.

 

Home entertainment can do do very well while spending elswhere decreases.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top

IF the subscription drive demonstrates that there is no longer a sufficient community, and I think that the likely case, to support the site as a fairly neutral, independent entity then what will happen is that the new design will be made to benefit Stardock and Stardock's customers.

I'll probably be in the minority here but I believe this is probably the best thing to do. I can't see any benefit for Stardock in doing away with the forums and I believe that is what concerns most community members. Doing away with some of the non-Stardock items will be a boon to the smaller skinning sites. They will then have something "unique" to offer which will help attract traffic.

I would argue that the community is not "smaller" than years past, but it has remained fairly steady in size. The thing that has grown is the "non-community" part of the site. The main function has become dissimination of skins (mostly Stardock program skins) There's a huge number of "drive by" skin collectors here daily and they rarely participate in the community and never purchase subscriptions. The subscribing community is just too small to carry all the "free loaders" (may be a poor choice of words)

Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The more I think about this the more I'm bothered...Here we are a day or so into a subscription drive and the owner of the website comes to the forums and speaks of the end of WC due to lack of subscriptions the first day?...I'm sorry but this seems like a scare tactic to me...Not to mention a poorly played one:waaaa:

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Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'm trying hard to not be bothered, but it's not working:'(

 

Are all you Mods, all the ones we love <3 that are here all the time, you guys aren't going anywhere..... are you?:pout:

Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I believe that is what concerns most community members.
I would argue that the community is not "smaller" than years past, but it has remained fairly steady in size. The thing that has grown is the "non-community" part of the site.
Here's what I see . . in this thread and elsewhere:  There isn't a community outside of 50 or less users that you see inthese forums day in and day out.  Most of the folks that visit this site (forums and galleries) are USERS.  They don't want community.  They want skins or they want solutions to problems.  And they are the ones who may not be buying the most products or subscriptions.

The other thing is . . if you are lookign for community . . there is always JoeUser.com (for now at least).

 

I doubt that thsi is a scare-tactic Jack.  It's more like Brad being typically direct.  If this, then that.  No more, no less.  You don't see it often and almsot never in corporate America.

Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Fair enough Zu...I appreciate that. I like direction, yet more than that, I admire optimism...

Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It does seem IMO, rather premature to be end-of-life issues on a drive that just began (during a recession).  It would remove pretty much the only thing I have left that brings me enjoyment if this site went down, but, shoot...I'm having to give up a whole bunch of stuff lately.  I guess if I can switch from animal protein to lentils and beans, I can just deal with whatever happens here.

Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top

There isn't a community outside of 50 or less users that you see inthese forums day in and day out.

Same scenario, Different scale. Same @ Skinartistry2.com, or skinnalicious,net, or etc...

Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Are all you Mods, all the ones we love that are here all the time, you guys aren't going anywhere..... are you?

I was a skinner and skinning community member many years before WC was formed, and was a WC subscriber long before becoming a mod. if it ever came down to me not being a mod I will still always be a member of the WC and skinning community.

I Know others would feel the same way.

Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I know HG, it would just be weird if none of you were here as Mods, what I mean is, I LOVE YOU GUYS:blush:

I've been a member of a lot of forums, and ran a few over the years, and moderated some big sites, and you guys do this with integrity, and that is a rare thing.. :thumbsup:

I've seen people who are just power hungry, ban-happy, full-of-themselves Mods.. but not you guys, you give Mods a good name :)

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Im not a skinner but I think I have a good eye for what looks good and I like dressing up my desktop, home, and workplace. Since discovering Stardock and this site about two years ago, Im now hooked, and like an addict, visit every day to see whats happening, read the forums, post occasionally and see what skins have come out.

Ive purchased all the software, some master skins and a subscription to WC, so even though I dont have skins to share, I dont consider myself a 'user'. I suppose you could say that I live on the outskirts of this community. Who knows, maybe someday, coding wont scare me off and I'll be able to physically create the designs in my head and share them in return.

I do plan on renewing later this week, because its a small price to pay for what I get in return. But I have to say that this post by 'Frogboy' is a bit disconcerting. I think a bit of honey would draw in more subscribers. So, heres my plea ....spiff the site up a bit, keep the forums and great skin galleries, maybe have a quicker preview option (please keep the rainlender gallery). But please don't become too commercial and lose the personal quality this site offers.

[edited to 'fix' -admin]

Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Zubaz nails it on the forehead

 

Agreed, someone hire this guy :rofl:

Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The timing of this thread may not have been the best (a day or so into the subscription drive), but I see it as heralding in changes that were going to happen anyway.  Past subscription drives have failed to attract the funds required to run a site visited by thousands of drive-by skin hunters every day, so it makes sense to have the third-party galleries turned off by default to non-subscribers in order to help reduce non-paying site traffic, thus freeing up bandwidth and placing greater focus on Stardock products.

Will this affect WC subscribers?  No, not according to what Brad is saying... subscribers would still be able to activate and access 3rd-party galleries of interest to them.

Will this mean the forums go?  No, the forums serve as indicators to consumer sentiment/confidence, etc, and allow for customer feedback and suggestions to better enable Stardock provide quality goods and services.  Furthermore, Brad/Stardock realise that long-term customers and hardcore skinners need to feel a sense of community and belonging, so Stardock is highly unlikely to drive paying customers elsewhere by closing the forums.

However, having said that, the forums have been quite dead of late and, apart from the 50 or lees users Zubaz alludes to, people have been staying away in droves.  Apart from the game threads and the handful who perpetuate them, forum activity is at an all-time low from when I first joined WC, so if there are concerns/fears the forums will close, give Stardock a reason to keep them open and participate more frequently.

:)

 

 

Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top

By merging the site to Stardock and making it a pure commercial/business venture you are taking away a big incentive (for me, but maybe for others too) for subscribing to WC. That is "supporting the skinners" now becomes suddenly "supporting a commercial business".

 

Not sure how to react to that... :\

Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Sounds like there won't be a Community.. just all business

Sorta sounds like that to me to, but I don't have a business mind. Will the forums stay intact? Will we still have PM's and community dialogs, and such. Or is WC going Commercial?

 I must say that the skinning community will remain, because,Stardock Designs alone, no matter how good they are, can't create the skins in the quality, and quantity we all are used to. And the people getting thier skins, if you will, is what makes Stardock what it is. If people can't skin Windowblinds, then why have it.  No, the skinning community will be ok. I know that much. The forums and stuff will probably be more like ImpulseDriven.com or that kind of thing, is my guess. I like the old way better, hell I still cling tightly to WC Browser. It has the right feel. But Progress progresses.

Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I can't see anything from page 3 anymore, it's taken an hour to try and post, had to view page source to see the posts:blush:

Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'm not really sure how much it is going to help achieve a monetary goal (that is ridiculous IMO), by making posts called "The end of WinCustomize". But hey, it's your site. :rolleyes:

I believe Frogboy is right though. Maybe it's time to pass on the torch to other sites, and other skinners who aren't so interested in profit. There are a large number of freeware, and open source programs out there that can do most of this anyways. I'm sure they would appreciate the support that Stardock & WinCustomize has received.

I find it curious that a $50,000 "upgrade" is suddenly so mandatory - but it is your site.

Maybe it would be best if everyone spends their time working on building a community elsewhere. Somewhere we aren't getting blamed for the profiteering delusions of a person who continually blames the community that has been supporting his companies & sites.

$50,000!? - GMAFB :annoyed:

As far as the "no ads" pitch that pushes people to get subscriptions, I remember last year. I remember an attempt to push ads on the subscribers after they subscribed. There are also ads that are pushed in the form of "Master Skins". Never mind the adware that is Impulse, and the ads that are sent out by Stardock & their "3rd party affiliations". Nothing is off limits when it comes to increasing profits.

Since Stardock wants to usher in the new year with a 30 day notice of extinction to this site, I say it's time to pick another and move on. Stardock clearly doesn't value this site, Object Desktop, its visitors/members/subscribers anyways.

Let's all pick our favorite "non-user-blaming" sites & choose one to congregate at from now on. We are all squatters here apparently.

:thumbsdown:  >:( :annoyed:

This kind of greed & insularity is offensive.

I just found out about the subscription drive today. I may have considered subscribing before I read this crap. Having read this though, I would rather donate it to AIG.

 

Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Do what you gotta do but anouncing a subscription drive the same week as announcing "huge" changes does seem a bit sketchy. I undersatand the need for changes , I'm just saying there is a big contradiction there.

 

I find this quite troubling as I just re subscribed before reading this post and now, I am not at all sure what I have subscribed to!  If I had read this post first I would not have subscribed again although I am already well subscribed into the future. I feel like I have just been had.  Feel like I just bought a car from GM right before they announce they are closing out the model that I thought I was buying.

Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting kenwas, reply 21

Do what you gotta do but anouncing a subscription drive the same week as announcing "huge" changes does seem a bit sketchy. I undersatand the need for changes , I'm just saying there is a big contradiction there.
 

I find this quite troubling as I just re subscribed before reading this post and now, I am not at all sure what I have subscribed to!  If I had read this post first I would not have subscribed again although I am already well subscribed into the future. I feel like I have just been had.  Feel like I just bought a car from GM right before they announce they are closing out the model that I thought I was buying.

Nobody has announced any changes.

Brads post is talking about what might happen in the future if the subscription drive is unsuccessful.

There are still 53 days to go and personally I don't think it is fair to judge the success of it after a single day especially when that day is the first day back to work for some people.

Even in the worst case scenario I do not see the forums going anywhere simply because the very same forums are used at WC, SD support site, joeuser etc.

Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top

If you read frogboys other posts within this thread he puts much of the questions to rest. Hes not saying the community is not valuable to SD. Nor is saying that the members are greedy and dont do their best to contribute to WC, or blaiming the supporters for the lack of funding, its a size issue really.

WC when created it was a free site to all.* skinning was a niche back then* But as the popularity grew and costs rose, the need for subscriptions etc. was implemented to off set these expences. As the user base grew still, other sources of revenues were necessary to try and cover the rappidly growing costs of the site. While the Suporter base has grown over the years, the numbers of visitors to the site has grown so large compared to the subscriber base that the subscribers can not and have not been able to keep the site self sufficient.

With over 3 mil registered members and much less than that in actual subscribers, the revenues by subscribers do not cover the site costs.

I think the Sub drive could be sucessful, but we really need new subscribers to build the subscriber base, as well as any current subscribers who wish to resub early, to off set the growth.

If it is not, and SD has to foot much of the bill, I do not see WC being closed up. Just that if it is deemed, we may see some changes in the venue of its layout and content, being aimed more toward a SD site than a neutral site hosting all skinning apps skins etc.

I wouldnt go running off, as it remains to be seen how this will all turn out.

 

 

Reply #74 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I think the Sub drive could be sucessful,

Guess we'll never know now though. Regardless of any reasons why things "could" change...this discussion was premature and more than likely scared off any new or re-subscribers. This type of post should have been left for the last 2 or 3 days of the drive...not the first 1 or 2 days into it. I think the best thing anyone could do is delete this whole post until after the drive...if for no other reason than to at least give it a chance. But hey....what do I know!

Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top

In reading some of the posts here, it appears some are reading more into Brad's thoughts/ideas than what was being spoken of regarding the future of WC.  Yes, the thread title sounds ominous and perhaps could have been worded better, but the end of WC is not envisaged, I'm sure... just the closure of 3rd-party galleries to drive-by skin hunters, as these take up valuable bandwidth and have become no longer viable in the Stardock scheme of things.

The Wincustomize we've come to know and love will pretty much remain the same for those who are subscribers, with a few cosmetic and functional changes to enhance usability, etc.  I mean, look at it logically, can you really see Stardock closing the doors on what has become a storefront and the major showcase for its skinning apps and what can be done with them?  To shut down WC would be like shooting themselves in the foot, and Stardock isn't going to do that because Brad knows there needs to be some form of community centred around the products which are his bread and butter....

Wincustomize IS that community... and I don't see it going anywhere any time soon.  My one hope is that it is not incorporated into Impulse, which is great as a storefront and download manager.... just not as a browser.  I much prefer to browse WC via the tabbed browser of choice (Firefox), thus allowing me to browse other sites at the same time with just the one app.

:)