Sins Chess Mod In Work...

(Or is there a way to limit the number of (Pieces) "Ships" that can be Built?)

from Sins Forums

Hi,

        I have downloaded and began to play the new Entrenchment expansion, and there is a lot to like, however, i have had an idea in the back of my mind for some time now, and wanted to try and figure out how to do it. Basicallly, i am trying to convert the Sins ships to represent chess pieces, and to limit the number of types of ships available of course, just like in chess where we have one King, one Queen, two Bishops, two Knights and two Rooks, and the eight Pawns.

I am trying to figure out first how to limit the number of types so that i can only have one of the power pieces, in effect i am figuring on using the Capitals for these, and to somehow convert the unique movement of the chess piece into some strategy using the abilities and weapons of the capitals secondly.

Once i can get the pieces chosen, and then somehow equate them to the uniqueness of each of the chess pieces, then i would limit their numbers. So a given fleet will not exceed the limit of each type and the overall number will be 16 ships that would represent the 16 chess pieces on the board.

This would be fine for one on one battles, but those involving a third or fourth race, (Pirates and the Other race) I would have to figure out how to make a map that incorporates an additional two rows (level of planets) that would accomodate them to even the board out. Just as if i added two additional rows for two more combatants in chess by adding two additional rows to accomodate them, leaving the center squares the same for all combatants.

Making a map to use as an approximation of the board seems a given, but the limiting of the types and the numbers of pieces appears as if i will have to go into the maxslots for the capitals and for the overall number of ships, so that will be tweaking the files.

My question is does anyone have any ideas on how i might accomplish this, or have ideas that i have not considered. I am doing this alone, so my meager brain sometimes seems i am far from achieving the closeness to an actual chess game as i would like, but i am hoping that i can approximate a chess game, if not perfectly of course, then as close as i can get.

I am just asking for suggestions and thoughts to help me see things i may of course not thought of at all. I am doing this for my own pleasure and not really considering a mod to release unless of course others might find this interesting as well.

Thank you in advance for the ideas and suggestions and your time, hope it sounds interesting to others, but even if not, i am going to give it a go for myself, just because Sins seems so strategic to begin with, that a chess analogy is almost obvious.  :)

Thank you for your time and for listening,

Sincerely,

-Teal

 Keep Gaming and Keep Modding!!

:)

 

EDIT:

What i have so far:

 

Solar Empire Chess Mod:
by Teal and SemazRalan


Chess:              Solar Empire:            Movement:                            Purpose:

King                  Frigate                     1 square                                Game revolves around King

Queen               CapitalShip               Infinite any one angle             Most powerful piece in game

Bishop (Black)    CapitalShip               Infinite diagonale black only     Trinity B-K-R value

Bishop (White)   CapitalShip               Infinite diagonale white only

Knight (Black)    CapitalShip               L-shape

Knight (White)   CapitalShip               L-shape

Rook (Black)     CapitalShip               Infinite straight only

Rook (White)    CapitalShip               Infinite straight only

Pawn        Frigate                             2 squares at beginning,              Support. But also has added recapture ability
                                                     1 square thereafter.
                                                     Can capture only on diagonal.


Castle/Castling                                Special move of King and Rook to avoid mate or checkmate.
Je'Dup                                            Adjusting a piece, declaration before touching piece.

:)  So far, not very much, and the additional player races involved will offset the board more than i thought, as i will have to have two blank squares at the end of each side to allow for offsetting the other race. So my estimate is that the board will go from square 64 squares to an offset 64 plus 16 plus 16 plus two plus two blank squares to accomodate the two new players. Or 8 + 2 + 2 by 8 + 2 + 2 or 12 by 12 = 144 squares instead of 64. But this should preserve the center 4 rows each way to allow for the center battle area.

As for some of the pieces, i think the King should be a frigate, low powered, slow moving, (as per 1 square at a time). And the Queen and Bishop, Knight and Rook as power pieces as capitals. And a frigate again as each of the pawns.

At this point i dont know how i am going to come up with something akin to the Bishops being black and white, or the uniqueness of the Knight's movement. Or the pawn's ability to recapture captured pieces, such as the taken Queen or other power piece. In addition there is the fact that checkmating the King means the game is over, and how to tie the checkmate of the King to the loss of the planet, where Sins normally defaults to loss or win is something else i am not yet sure how to accomplish.

But just wanted to put some thoughts down and see what others may be thinking, or if there is some way to accomplish something that i am not yet seeing.

Thanks for listening, I will post some more ideas as they occur and when i can get back online.

Sincerely,

-Teal

 

Second Edit: this one is small and just occurred to me, as i talked it over with my friend. I am guessing the ships will have one ability, or one weapon, or none to approximate somehow the uniqueness of each of the chess pieces.

 

modding
13,872 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Might try having the "Chess" set as a template or scenario template so it's defined.  Then eliminate the frigate and capitalship factories from the PlayerTech/Psi/Phase.entity files so building additional ships is impossible? 

See if this map is the sort of thing you are imagining.  I might be completely off; mind reading subscription ran out 12/31/08.  Open this up in Galaxy Forge 1.1 -right click, save as "CHESS MAP"

3 stars, 1 is main 64 planet level, 2 others are 14 planets with interconnections to main 64 planet "board"

I don't have SINS 1.1 so I hope this runs for you.  Good Luck.

If it works, post screenshots for me.

+1 Loading…
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Ah... SemazRalan, this is wonderful, but im not entirely sure i can open it. I just downloaded and installed Entrenchment, and i think the maps are different. But your work at this is very very much appreciated. I have the new 1.1 galaxy forge and will try it, and it sounds very very nice. I am guessing the 14 planet second and third star are the "Home Row" areas fo the "Board" and as you said lead directly to the 64 planet "Board" star.  :)

This is wonderful!!!  Thank you thank you thank you!!!!   :) 

-Teal

I will let you know how it goes, okie?   :)

 

EDIT:

         SemazRalan!!!!!    IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!   :)   Sorry for the shouting.  :)  It looks absolutely and awesomely wonderful!

It loads into the 1.1 galaxyforge beautifully!!  :)

Now that we have a workable and beautiful board, there is just the rest of the thousand, (haha, maybe a little less) things to figure out to make Sins Chess a workable and viable mini-mod!   :)

You get a karma, and co-credit for this of course, as i could never have done as wonderful a job as you with this beautiful map-board!!!  :)

-Teal

 

CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

How do you make in screen shots in the post?

Got it!!  :)  The pic of the map is here:    http://gallery.filefront.com/TealBlue/

 

-T

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Yet another excellent idea from Teal...I'd love to see this at play!

Would be hilarious :)!

Makes me remember about the guy that wanted to do a capture the flag mod. Wonderful ideas all way round, just hope it comes to fruition! But then again its you and SemazRalan, so I can be garantued that whatever gets thrown your way, youll pull it off!!!

 

Keep up the awesome work!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

:)  Haha, Happy New Year to You Too!!    But it is supposed to be a "Serious" idea!  Not just for sillies. But then again, not everyone thinks like me. Anyway, i hope we can pull it off and it is neat ... and "serious"  :)  And if not everyone thinks its the greatest thing since watermelon, then i will just have to play it myself.

But then who am i going to get to play the other side?

Hmmm.... Maybe the AI will be gangbusters and beat my socks off!!  Haha, well... it'll be fun anyway.

:)

-Teal

 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Hey!!! I was complimenting you :( and if you pull it off....count me in to test it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I might pick up the "Capture the flag" mod, guess the guy just dumped it annd the more I think about it..the more it would be fun :)

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Now if there were only a way to set at least stars on the Z-Axis so the Main 64 planet board is at 0, then 1 at -400 and 2 at +400 for constant separation.  I'll email Blair Fraser about it.

Read it in notepad, it has a scenario template for the home planet at the end so you can at least play the map in SINS 1.1 -hopefully.  Just change the description to "CHESS -SINS 1.1 Version"

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

:) Ahhh.... worked last night on the finishing the advent and tech ships (pieces) i went with all capitals for the power pieces, even the King (that i originally thought would be a frigate because he is so powerless) but went with a low end capitalship anyway. I am turning up the restore rates for the King, even with low weapons and slow speed, and am running two abilities on the King plus two support abilities. But with a single weapon.

The Queen has two weapons, as well as two critical abilities and two support abilities, as well as fighters/bombers and a raised restore rate from norm, but not as high as the King. The Bishop-Knight-Rook pieces have one ability and one weapon with normal restore rate and no fighters.  The Pawn is sort of an interesting compilation. I have the scout for each race with the explore ability, and the colonize and capture neutral entity ability from the colonyship, plus the module/starbase attack ability and the detect mines ability. In addition the Pawn carries minelayers for the advent, fighters/bombers for the tec (who still have their mine planetmodule) and the vasari scout will carry the mine ability as well (i think).

Anyway, i wanted the Pawn to be able to Recapture captured pieces once reaching the opponents home row, but this will have to be more of an honor thing for now as the capital ship factories can still be used in "open" play. In the map scenario version, (which i have yet to build) it will be what is on the planet initially (the 16 pieces) and no more. But i haven't done that yet.

I am finishing the Phase setup now, and will test it and then let others who want to try it give it a go and see what they think.

-Teal

 

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Problems came up with a mini dump as i finished the phase race conversion, i am getting mini-dumps with the mines reproducing over and over until my screen maxes out and i get a mini-dump. I have to figure out what it causing it of course and fix it. Or abandon the idea, which at this point i dont really want to do, so, back to figuring out how to get rid of the mines problem.

Well... I will get back to it, and let everyone know how it goes.

-Teal

 

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

A suggestion on ship dynamics.    Speed and turning rate can be valuable tools for differentiating between them.  If you make the queen the ultimate in mobility and the king a dog meat slow ship that makes the other capitals look like cheetahs, you'll very accurately portray their board game strengths.  You can give the king and queen a full radial fire spread and split the bishops and rooks to have either side or front facing with mostly speed and little maneuvering, and give the knight a ridiculously high turn rate more in line with the king and queen but with a more nominal speed.  You'll have one jack of all trades, two strafing masters, two line ships, and two irritating little bastard knights that avoid the fire from the less able.  It should make them very different pieces.

 

An interesting, but difficult idea you have here.  I'd suggest looking into the minelayer mechanics to see if there is class specific code you're missing by having it be a scout.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Ahhhh... fixed the mine problem, put it back where it was and used fighters/bombers instead. The minelayer i left in as well, which makes it really like 16 chess pieces plus the minelayer and the starbase. And of course all the tactical support equipment as well. So i thought as long as the other races had the same, then perhaps it is okie. But to be truer to an actual game of chess,  i think i would need to eliminate those and have just the 16 pieces themselves, and strip everything else out. I can give it a try with a copy of the mod and see how it plays.

Your idea of the turn and speed differences equating to chess movements for the knight, bishops, rooks, king and queen and pawns is a very very interesting idea.  :)  I hadn't considered anything like that, but what you say and how you explain it make very nice sense and makes me think it might be possible to really approximate the chess piece movements somewhat. Thank you!!!!

I will try it and give you credit for the idea and see how it goes, as soon as i can finish changing the files i will test it and post the results. Also if you like, you are more than welcome to help me test it, if you want.  :)

Thank you again for a marvelous idea!!

-Teal

 

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I had an idea, but wanted to ask what others might think of this: basically i wanted to make each of the power pieces approximate each other, that is the phase king would have 4 abilities and 1 weapon at short range, but have high shields and hull and slow speed, but so would the psi and the tec. The Queen would be the most powerful, with 4 abilities, 2 weapons at long range and moderate shields and hull but fast speed. The middle pieces, the Bishop, Knight and Rook, would have 2 abilities, 1 weapon midrange, moderate shields and hull and moderate speed. The pawn would have the ability to colonize and capture resource asteroids, nothing else would. And also the pawn would be able to recapture lost pieces, though this would have to be on the honor system until i can figure out a way to accomplish that. Also i was thinking of setting each of the weapons for each type to the same value, meaing the King would have 30 damage, the B-K-R would have 70 and the Queen would have 120. Or is this too high?  I was also worried if i set them too close, say 50-60-70 that there would not be enough of a difference in class. Or 40-60-80? or is that still too close? The shield and hull and antimatter values would be set equal as well, say 3.5 low, for like the B-K-R and pawn and  5.5 for the Queen and 7.5 for the King. Does this sound workable? Or would it be better to leave their values as set in the original game? My thought is that there will be no supporting frigates or planetmodules to help. And if i load these from a map where they are spawned, it will mean leaving out the frigate factory and the capitalship factory as well. So they need something to survive a 64 planet map.  :)

Anyway, that is what im working on, let me know what you think or if you have any suggestions, appreciate your time,

Sincerely,

-Teal

 

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

I'm away from my own computer for a couple weeks still, so no testing for me.  I'm on satellite at home too, which means multiplayer is very laggy.  Tuning damage values and such is going to be a project involving massive play testing with another person. The AI is not going to be able to handle such an odd variation like this, ship production and normal roles for the game objects is a necessity.  Depending on what you do, the AI might even need disabled to avoid crashing the game.

 

I kinda think you need to use speed as the determining factor and let even the lowly pawn be one hell of a juggernaut compared to sins frigates.  Chess isn't about damage output and survival capabilities, it's all positioning.  I think I'd set it up to where the king is guaranteed dead just being caught in the same well as an advanced ship, and have the pawns beefy enough to take even a queen to the cleaners if it tries to run past more than one or two of them to the other well.  Really slow movement combined with really long range on a forward gun.  They could sit at the middle of the well and hammer their opponent all the way across it, but never keep up with a knight circling their ship.  You should be able to force fleet distribution on both sides by having pawns just be flat too slow to react at all.  The players will have to have screens around their king piece and maneuver into a position to make a hole in the defense without exposing their own king to a line of attack.

 

You can make phase charging really slow and give the faster ships time reduction buffs to aid in this as well.

 

Might should give a farsight type ability to a unit or two to make things more interesting as well.  If you go with my suggestions, you'll be moving blind into suicide scenarios with fog of war up.  It would be seriously bitchy.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

:)  Interesting ideas!!  :)  I'm stuck at the moment with mini-dumps, something i took out, or put in is giving me headaches. I have a copy of the earlier version, but will have to re-do everything i just put in the last few days. So, a lot of work to re-do, but this time slower, and checks each time so i can see if i can spot where the mini-dump is happening, or hopefully avoid the whole mini-dump thing altogether. ]

Well, we will see, thank you for the interesting ideas and i will as i said, re-do some things just to catch up where i was, but it will be interesting to see if i can put in some of what you are explaining. It would be neat to see!!  :)

Take care and keep modding!!

-Teal

 

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

If you need any additional help! I'm only a PM away TEAL...you know how willing I am to help you +_+!

Kep up the awesome ideas! Lets revolutionise Sins!!!

 

On a side note,

See you in THE DOME! +_+

 

Justin S.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

lol Shadow, that's your hallmark now.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Yes!!!  Justin has a Superb Mod!!!!    :)  I'm jealous!!!  Haha, well...  i suppose its okie to have my little mini-mods. :)

But i "Have" to learn how to model and import and make maps and .... (lets see... 4,300,89 2,776,833,001 things i dont know about modding... = too many to put in a post.)       :)

But i'm working on it. :)

Keep Up the Great Work Justin!!!

Sincerely,

-Teal