a response to Just imajinit's challenge...

The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, “My country, right or wrong.” In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.
-Carl Schurz

imajinit's challenge

I’m calling out all of you that don’t agree with the war in Iraq. All of you Liberals that don’t think that war is necessary, let me ask you a few questions…

Who do you think is responsible for your right to freedom of speech? Who made that possible to begin with?

Every American is responsible for upholding their rights. They can do this through a myriad of ways from working through government agencies and the courts, forming their own advocacy groups, pleading their case to the voting public and politicians, voting, newspapers, civil disobediance, and always making sure that their voice is heard. Many people make it possible today and throughout history. Military, lawyers, judges, journalists, Congress, everyday citizens, teachers, liberals, conservatives, moderates, priests, rabbis, that punk kid who keeps piping up despite people telling him to shut up, anyone who asks a question of those more powerful than them and refuses to take silence for an answer...

You’re against the war in Iraq, and you protest it loudly. So you would have rather left Saddam in power in Iraq, right? Do you know about Saddam’s track record for getting involved in wars all on his own? How do you suppose Saddam would have reacted if the anti-war Liberals (like you) had approached him and loudly proclaimed their position on war? I think something really bad might have happened to you.

Saddam would shoot our asses down in a second. And if we supported his wars there was a chance he might shoot our asses down. And if we didn't say anything then he might still shoot our asses down. "Something bad would happen?" put that in a memo and entitle it "Shit People Already Know".

Leave Saddam in power? Well, if elections were held today the religious extremists in Iraq would have a good chance of winning. Saddam was a sociopathic POS, but he tried to stay alive by not doing insane things while we were watching. Religious fundies will be more likely to do those crazy ass things.

The insurgency and terrorists have armed themselves due to the looting we couldn't prevent. Bush himself said if we left Saddam alone, he'd still have those explosives in Saddam's hands, under UN observation and out of the hands of the terrorists.

Osama bin Laden can point to Iraq and say, "See? American is an evil empire." Moderate Muslims are backing away from us because their position is weakened thanks to our invasion.

Countries now know that in order to avoid and invasion their best chance is to get a nuke now, while we're busy in Iraq.

Saddam should have been left in power: the terrorists were weaker before we invaded.

How many innocent civilians have to die here in America before you’ll be in favor of our trained soldiers taking the fight to the terrorist’s backyard?

Iraq was NOT a terrorist backyard, it wasn't even a terrorist Stop n' Shop before we invaded. Al Queda met them a few times to talk, and then that was it, there is no other evidence they had a working relationship. Past meetings aren't enough to establish a working relationship, as evidenced here.

Saddam paid money to suicide bomber groups to attack Israel, and had an old retired terrorist living in Baghdad. That was it. Meanwhile, there are like 60 other countries with Al Queda cells or camps. That's why most liberals rail and bitch on Iraq while freely acknowledging Afghanistan as the correct country to invade.

It is today thanks to our invasion of Iraq that made it a terrorist breeding ground. Our troops are getting attacked dozens of times every day. We're losing. That's according to Republican Congressman Chuck Hegel. Newsweek said that privately Colin Powell feels the same way. The terrorists are not only going there but learning how to fight Americans. I read an article where some of the enemy were trading tips to each other like "aim for the tank's treads, not the front".

Every time a civilian is caught in the crossfire a new iraqi insurgent is born. They blame us, not the insurgency because we're the ones invading their home. As the conquerers who smashed their government we had to ensure the security of the civilians. We failed, crime and random car bombings are now a common occurence. That's why they joined the insurgency.

We alienated our allies and used up our credibility. Next time we need to invade a real threat, we'll have even more trouble. Doesn't matter if we believed it or not, we were wrong, and our reputation suffers for it.

Even if you accept that Iraq was the greatest idea in the world, Bush screwed it up. I posted on other blog comments sections a long spiel about all the errors he made. Here's quick run down of the main points:
- making the defense department control the postwar occupation instead of state, defense last did nation building in 1952, state handled the rest
- firing the iraqi army and thus pushing all those unemployed angry military guys into the insurgency
- not enough troops even though it was recommended several times that hundreds of thousands would be needed
- not stopping the looting, because we had too few troops. "a conquerer/liberator must become masters on the first day or they will face hostility on all sides."
- capturing and securing the Oil Ministry during the looting, making us look bad, like we only cared about the oil.

Does another 9/11 style attack need to happen first? 2 more? 3 more? What’s it going to take?

It'll take evidence that 9/11was actually sponsored by iraq to convince me that invading iraq was a great idea. You have none. If another 9/11 style attack occurs due to al queda, should we invade north korea? If Iran sponsors an attack or plans to sponsor an attack, fucking invade Iran. Same with any other country. But don't try and confuse the issue by making false analogies where invading Iraq was the logical consequence of punishing the 9/11 planners. Iraq and 9/11 are unrelated.

You’re obviously enjoying your freedom speech. I see you enjoying it when I turn on my T.V. and see Bruce Springsteen, John Cougar Mellencamp, REM, and the Dixie Chicks singing about how we need change. I have one final question for you. Would you be willing to fight for that freedom if someone tried to take it from you?

Yeah.

And if I get drafted, I'll even go to Iraq and fight there. Not because I think it is the right war but because as an American citizen it is my responsibility to fully follow the law if I am not going to do peaceful civil disobedience.

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