Lecturing The Big Three

 

 

I’d be the last guy to defend a CEO making 21mil a year even if his company was stumbling over bales of profit, let alone one losing billions. Hell, Lou Gehrig cap in hand had to beg for a $40k contract, so I seethe when an A-Rod winds up with a 250mil multiyear contract, and Manny turns down Torres’ offer of 40mil for two years because he—in his old age no less—wants 100mil for four years! Then there are these part time pitchers with 4.0 ERA getting 10-15mil, and those with 3.5 ERA are lionized as 20mil superstars. The Amazon Bozo who "created" an electronic catalogue, and Bill Gates who, despite better existing platforms, under bid for the IBM contract no more deserve being multibillionaires than the technical writers for Sears and Montgomery Ward and the American Marine Indians who broke the Japanese codes, respectively. The founding fathers of science—the likes of Einstein and Newton—and the computer pioneers at Xerox, AT&T and university labs got little monetary reward but no one was counting.

Nonetheless, the audacity of Congress to lecture insultingly the Big Three who at this point have never looked better relative to the great progress being made, is simply arrant arrogance and hypocritical, particularly in light of their many failings as lawmen—not to mention their blank checks to Wall Street financiers. It is actually unAmerican the way the congressional committees have behaved. They continually stick it to the CEOs and UAW with the harangue of "legacy." But that legacy also includes the entire American story of magnificent automobiles that were second to none in their time, and it took real grit to labor on the assembly lines without robots and flimsy steel and plastics. In the 60s and early 70s youthful protestors and image seekers bought foreign—they were masochistic and joy rode on the junk from Japan and Germany. It was only when the first and second oil crises hit did they begin to buy for the economy. Still the early foreign cars were a joke—Opel, Beetle, Datsun, Mirage, Corolla—that fared no better than the four and six cylinder autos of the 30s and 40s. It really wasn’t until the union free southern states cajoled the foreign companies with incredible incentives to build spanking new robotic plants did they begin to compete with the rusted out plants of Detroit which had to undergo tremendous restructuring of their plants in order to compete. Today, despite finicky Consumers Report, no one can claim there’s much difference in comparable models.

If Congress wants to turn to legacy they should lecture the consumer soccer moms, the male chauvinists with their demand for SUVs and pickup trucks, along with the southern governors promising the moon.

Copyright © 2008 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: Dec 9, 2008.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

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12,037 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top

Next time, put a little feeling into your writing. ;)

And I agree!  See?  We can agree on somethings!

Reply #2 Top

I cannot fathom what kind of stupidity one must have to think that letting millions of people lose their jobs is the best course of action. Regardless of your views, the automotive industry cannot fail in this economy. The free market is unable to compensate when the global economy is failing.

I seriously hate Republican politicians now. Get off your corrupt ass, sign the bill, and kindly get the fuck out of my government. You disgust me with your disregard for the American worker.

Reply #3 Top

I cannot fathom what kind of stupidity one must have to think that letting millions of people lose their jobs is the best course of action.
End of quote

Da Comrade.  You would have done well in Soviet Union!

How about - when they are not producing what people want?  When they are leeching off a system that long has passed them by?

The simple fact is that the only constant in life is change.  That is why the "millions" of buggy whip makers lost their jobs.

Reply #4 Top

If Congress wants to turn to legacy they should lecture the consumer soccer moms, the male chauvinists with their demand for SUVs and pickup trucks, along with the southern governors promising the moon.
End of quote

Wrong.  The 'Big3' should have competed, pure & simple, but they didn't.  They allowed the UAW to make them and keep them uncompetitive.

The 'southern governors promising the moon' mischaracterizes them a bit, but even so, I don't think you'll find many critics of those governors among the constituents employed at those manufacturing plants.  You might also want to acknowledge how bleak the economic downturn was that hit the midwest & south in the late 1970's, a time when the southwest was booming, and that all those states were desperate for jobs, any jobs.  You should be praising those governors, not dissing them.  Blaming the competition for failure to compete is lame, to be kind.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting No, reply 2
I cannot fathom what kind of stupidity one must have to think that letting millions of people lose their jobs is the best course of action. Regardless of your views, the automotive industry cannot fail in this economy. The free market is unable to compensate when the global economy is failing.

I seriously hate Republican politicians now. Get off your corrupt ass, sign the bill, and kindly get the fuck out of my government. You disgust me with your disregard for the American worker.
End of No's quote

 

yeah and how many more times will the tax payers be asked to do the same thing...were they not just begging 5 months ago? now they are back...and they will be back again

 

I heard a great compairision to this. The taxpayers are not bailing out the companies, they are bailing out the jobs. Its creating an artificail thing.... and this is never wise.

 

So enjoy it i guess. I am sure they will be back in march.

Reply #6 Top

So enjoy it i guess. I am sure they will be back in march.
End of quote

You think it'll take till march for them to come back?  I'm betting they start angling for more by the end of January, if they wait that long.  I mean their number went from 25 billion to 34 billion in the span of two weeks.  In two weeks they somehow needed 9 billion more, so what is to stop them from blowing thru 14 billion in 3 or 4 weeks.

Regardless of your views, the automotive industry cannot fail in this economy. The free market is unable to compensate when the global economy is failing.
End of quote

The notion of anything being too big to fail bothers the hell out of me.  Nothing should be too big to fail in a capitalistic, market based economy.  Yes it will be extremely painful to see an industry as big as the american auto industry fail and lots of people will lose their jobs but that is no reason to prop up a failing business model.  If a business isn't profitable it needs to fail so that something else can take it's place that is profitable. 

Look at the market like you would a forest, sometimes you need to cut down the old growth trees to allow saplings and underbrush to grow to sustain the the animal life that depends on the forest.  It's the same with our economy, sometimes we need to get rid of the old failing companies to make room for the small startups.

Reply #7 Top

The notion of anything being too big to fail bothers the hell out of me.
End of quote

I agree.  They should be allowed to reorganize under bankruptcy protection and have a shot at competing again.  The notion that 'millions' of jobs will somehow vanish if they are allowed to file bankruptcy is nothing but a scare/extortion tactic.  Jobs 'will' be lost, but there is no alternative that will simultaneously preserve those jobs and make the big 3 competitive.

Reply #8 Top

We can agree on somethings!
End of quote
Till your next comment, anyway.

They should be allowed to reorganize under bankruptcy protection and have a shot at competing again.
End of quote
All of a sudden bankruptcy is a good thing!

Reply #9 Top

I agree. They should be allowed to reorganize under bankruptcy protection and have a shot at competing again. The notion that 'millions' of jobs will somehow vanish if they are allowed to file bankruptcy is nothing but a scare/extortion tactic. Jobs 'will' be lost, but there is no alternative that will simultaneously preserve those jobs and make the big 3 competitive.
End of quote

I completely agree.  The notion that no one will buy a car from a company in bankruptcy is simply not true.  As long as the company in bankruptcy offers warranties on new cars that are insured by a third party company they will definitely be able to sell cars.

Reply #10 Top

All of a sudden bankruptcy is a good thing!
End of quote

No one ever said that bankruptcy was a good thing, but it is what a company should do before going to Washington looking for a handout.  No one is saying that times aren't going to be tough, and certainly no one is saying that they want potentially millions of people to lose their jobs, but the thought of using tax payer money to prop up a failing business model just doesn't make any sense and it is certainly NOT the American way (I apply this to the banks as well btw).

Reply #11 Top

You think it'll take till march for them to come back? I'm betting they start angling for more by the end of January, if they wait that long.
End of quote
Ford might since I don't think it's included since all they need is a credit line down the road.

they are bailing out the jobs. Its creating an artificail thing.... and this is never wise.
End of quote
What's artificial about jobs--and they are too big to fail. Besides, what's the point of creating 2½million jobs if you let 3million disappear.Though granted in this case 3mil is a bit of an exaggetation.:(

Reply #12 Top

they are too big to fail
End of quote

No one is too big to fail.  If they were too big to fail then they wouldn't be failing right now would they? 

Yes it is true that the bigger they are the harder they fall and the big three failing would have tremendous impact to our economy.  However propping up a failing business model is merely delaying the inevitable.  At what point do we cut off the big three.  They were asking for money a few months ago and got it, now they are back asking for more and they are likely to get it.  What happens if they are back in Feb. or Mar. asking for even more money.  At what point do we say enough is enough, or are we simply going to socialize all failing big businesses so that none of them fail?  How is that "fair" (a term Dems love to toss around) to the small businesses?

Reply #13 Top

No one is too big to fail.
End of quote
Right, like the Iraq Mistake, farm subsidies to millionaires, tax writeoffs, tax shelters, interest deduction on home mortgages, tax incentives for auto transplants, entitlements--bailouts in reality all too big to fail.<X3    

Reply #14 Top

Mixing your metaphors a bit irresponsibly there, Richard.  But I'm all for pulling the plug on farm subsidies, too.

Reply #15 Top

Iraq Mistake, farm subsidies to millionaires, tax writeoffs, tax shelters, interest deduction on home mortgages, tax incentives for auto transplants, entitlements-
End of quote

Just because these exist doesn't make them right.  Just because something has been done before doesn't mean it should be continued.  At some point it has to stop, at some point we have to declare that enough is enough.  I for one passed that point a long time ago and I really think it is time for congress to recognize that it has all been taken too far. 

Reply #16 Top

All of a sudden bankruptcy is a good thing!
End of quote

When was it not?  The problem we are facing now is not bankruptcy, but those trying to cheat the system.

Reply #17 Top

What's artificial about jobs--and they are too big to fail.
End of quote

First, it is not 2.5 million jobs. That is just pure hyperbole (they are not selling nothing afterall).

Second, why do we insist upon paying buggy whip makers to keep making buggy whips when no one wants to buy them?  The UAW, UMW, and lots of U Dubyas have lost millions of jobs in the last 40 years!  And the economy abides.  WHy?  For a lot of different reasons, but the bottom line is because what was being produced was no longer needed, or fewer people were needed.

And guess what?  The nation is not on the dole.

Reply #18 Top

Just finished catching some of KO's & Madcow's, oops I mean Maddow's, bits on the auto bailout.

Funny on so many levels:

  • It's naked union busting.
  • It's 'war between the states.'
  • It's apparently OK to bailout 'white collar' companies but not 'blue collar' companies.
  • If the Big 3 'liquidate' (thank you, Robert Reich), some 2.5 million jobs could vanish overnight.
  • All the Republicans against the bailout are from states with foreign-owned auto plants, heavily subsidized foreign-owned auto plants.

Just a little sampler, there.  After 8 years of blistering Republicans & 'right wing media' for being fearmongers, what do they do?  Fearmonger, of course.  And you could cut the disdain for 'The South' with a knife.

Reply #19 Top

Just a little sampler, there. After 8 years of blistering Republicans & 'right wing media' for being fearmongers, what do they do? Fearmonger, of course.
End of quote

AND blame republicans.

But I think the UAW did it to themselves.  Refusing to budge on the contract is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Reply #20 Top

They may also have an undisclosed conflict of interest - willing to bet they (KO & RM) are AFTRA members.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Dr, reply 19

Just a little sampler, there. After 8 years of blistering Republicans & 'right wing media' for being fearmongers, what do they do? Fearmonger, of course.
AND blame republicans.

But I think the UAW did it to themselves.  Refusing to budge on the contract is cutting off their nose to spite their face.
End of Dr's quote

 

Well it wont matter soon. They will get the money now via the Fed reserve and part of the package bail out money anyways.

 

That will hold em over till Jan and when the dems have total control over the Gov... and then the UAW will have a full playground power then.

 

 

 

Reply #22 Top

Refusing to budge on the contract is cutting off their nose to spite their face.
End of quote
What you mean by refusing to budge, like Sen Corker, is burn the contract. The zealous bludgeoning of unions will eventuate total loss of workers' rights which is okay with you until down the road it will infiltrate every industry while the laissez faire extremists return to 19th century exploitation.

Reply #23 Top

What you mean by refusing to budge, like Sen Corker, is burn the contract. The zealous bludgeoning of unions will eventuate total loss of workers' rights which is okay with you until down the road it will infiltrate every industry while the laissez faire extremists return to 19th century exploitation.
End of quote

Such melodrama... I feel the vapors about to overcome you. ;)  

Reply #24 Top

Quoting stevendedalus, reply 22

Refusing to budge on the contract is cutting off their nose to spite their face.What you mean by refusing to budge, like Sen Corker, is burn the contract. The zealous bludgeoning of unions will eventuate total loss of workers' rights which is okay with you until down the road it will infiltrate every industry while the laissez faire extremists return to 19th century exploitation.
End of stevendedalus's quote

 

Then those companies are breaking the laws. If we do for some reason revert back to those times then yes unions will then have a use.... untill then not so much

Reply #25 Top

What you mean by refusing to budge, like Sen Corker, is burn the contract.
End of quote

No, refuse to budge.  They had the chance to make their own destiny.  They are losing it now.  IN a couple of years, they will be crying about all the jobs lost when we can no longer sustain their extravagance.  THEY decided, not Sen Corker.  It is THEIR decision.  NO one elses.