Creating Longest Trade Lines

from Sins Forums

Okay, so I know that spamming trade ports is often less productive than creating a solid trading chain. However, all of my experience with attempting to create these chains suggests that the line itself behaves rather erratically.

I know the line may pass through UCGWs, and that these count as jumps in the bonus calculation. I have seen a line pass through two UCGWs to get to the next trade port on one occasion, but most of the time it seems unwilling to connect to a trade port that far away. Perhaps it takes a sort of path of least resistance? Is there any way to control the path of the line? Or is there a set of rules that explain how the line chooses a path?

Also, my observations have led me to believe that the line is somewhat dependent on the order in which I build the trade ports. For example, my longest trade line, no matter how I attempt to alter it, always "begins" at the planet at which I built my first trade port. Though, I have been able to extend the line in two directions from the starting planet. In this case, I can alter the line on either side of the starting planet, but it always passes through this point. It seems that the planet with the first trade port is always considered the beginning of the line, or the beginning of two connected lines extending in different directions. I have experimented with this by colonizing every planet on a map, scuttling all trade ports, constructing a line, scuttling all trade ports, constructing a new line, etc. Each time the line begins at the first trade port.

I have been unable to find any information regarding the behavior of a longest trade line that can be used toward effectively planning and creating one. Any information you have found or observations you have made would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Any information you have found or observations you have made would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I can offer these links:

The trade route will seek only the longest direct route. The route needs to go somewhere (and not just "spamming" the ajoining planets!).  Here's another (better) explanation, with an illustrated example.  And another good illustrated explanation.

And possibly this thread: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/321300
and this one about economics: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/325703

Hope this helps, Obi 1

my observations have led me to believe that the line is somewhat dependent on the order in which I build the trade ports. For example, my longest trade line, no matter how I attempt to alter it, always "begins" at the planet at which I built my first trade port!

This is an interesting observation.  I never noticed this. (What if U scuttle the first)?  I always start at one end (beyond UCGWs and/or) skipping a planet/s when I see it can reach the following planet thru UCGWs, and stopping before it can make a completed circle back to the original.

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks for the information. I've seen the articles/illustrated examples on soasewiki.com, and while they do provide a great breadth of information on the trading system, they still leave me with one question: what conditions govern the behavior of the trade line? Essentially, how does it decide to connect to the next trade port, and how does it decide on a path?

I have observed that the line does not always continue on to the next trade port, even in my most simple tests. When attempting to construct a more or less linear trade line through adjacent planets, I reached a point where the line did not continue on to the next trade point in the line. It didn't even require a jump through a UCGW. (In this line I had one UCGW jump earlier in the line, but all other segments were between adjacent planets.) I haven't been able to figure out what conditions would make the line continue through the other trade ports, but stop expanding at a certain one though I continued with an identical pattern of construction.

Also, in this particular test, I think the planet at which it stopped only had two phase lanes, one into it along the path of the trade lane, and one out of it to the next planet where I placed a trade port. This makes me curious about what happens when more complexity is introduced. What if a planet has several phase lanes and you place trade ports at more than one adjacent planet (other than the previous trade port leading "into" the planet)? A fork in the road. How is it determined which path the trade line will take? Or does the line simply end when it has more than one place to go?

As far as the build order of the trade ports, I think (I'll have to confirm this) when I scuttled the first trade port, the starting point of the trade line moved to the second trade port I built, and so on. This may be coincidence, due to the linear nature of a large part of my tests, but I still think the trade line originates at the oldest trade port.

I haven't been able to draw many conclusions from my observations. The line seems to behave almost counter-intuitively. But I think that this information could be useful, especially in large maps where this kind of planning is needed to ensure economic efficiency.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I think I read a few times that IronClad themselves have stated the trade route formula needs a rework. Maybe send your findings to Blair. Might help them.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I just tried a few more things and encountered two instances where the trade line does not involve the planet with the first trade port. In the first, the first segment of the trade line is sometimes dropped to prevent the completion of a loop. In the second, I created a trade line five or six planets long and then placed one trade port on each planet on the map. The final trade line did not pass through any of the first six trade ports I built. This would imply that none of the conjectures I've made about build order are true. But, I did see that sometimes the trade line takes a "path of least resistance" and sometimes it goes the long way around depending on the order in which the trade ports in the area were built. Sometimes the line will select the longest possible route on the map, and sometimes it will select the most efficient route beginning with the first trade port. Perhaps some parts of it are random? There doesn't seem to be a logical way that it works.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to these forums, but who is Blair?

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

are you guys really running out of money, late in the game, when you could actually build these long trade lines?

i've never found a need to do this, i just spam ports and not think twice about it

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

i dont understand why a dead asteroid will break the line

its not my fault they dont have logistic slots!

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting danielmoore, reply 6
i dont understand why a dead asteroid will break the line

its not my fault they dont have logistic slots!

As the almighty TEC you could spam trade ports on a dead asteroid....eventually.  It's call development mandate in the policy civil tec, it grants you 4 more logistic slot on all colonies.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Blair and Craig Fraser are the two founders of Ironclad games (they are brothers, not spouses haha). 

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

And yes, Blair has said that the algorithm to calculate the longest trade route should be getting changed in Entrenchment. I tried to find out how exactly it gets calculated (so, the same question you're asking) and he just said there's no point in explaining it since it's changing :P

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

It's good to hear that it's getting changed. I guess that means I can stop trying to figure it out. :) Thanks for the information.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

hurry lets complain while we still can!

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

As Annatar said, this is being completely changed for Entrenchment, so I wouldn't bother banging your head to understand it. We admit its too complicated and confusing in the original Sins.

However, the trade system changes are NOT in Entrenchment beta 1 as they are related to something else we are mucking about on.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Oooh, more goodies :D

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

sounds like beta 1 is complete?

 

 

OH SNAP 

 

 

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

no one caught on to my comment?!

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

It chooses the longest "shortest-path" between worlds, crossing only UCGWs and trade ports.  If that doesn't make any sense, well that's why nobody tries to explain it.


So for a concrete example, let's take a trade route currently going from A to B.  Now, at C you build a port.  However, A, B, and C form a triangle (there's a phase lane from A to B, one from B to C, and one from A to C) so the shortest path between any two of those gravwells will always be 1 and your trade route continues to only be from A to B.  Next you build one at D which only connects to C.  Now, the longest shortest path is 2 (between D and either A or B ) so your trade line will switch to either "A to C to D" or "B to C to D".