Kerry Camp's Final Fumble

from JoeUser Forums
This is a repost from the New York Post. Are they right?



KERRY CAMP'S FINAL FUMBLE

BY DICK MORRIS


October 28, 2004 -- ONCE again, John Kerry shows his instinct to go for the capillaries, rather than the jugular.
Kerry has embraced the dubious New York Times/CBS accusations about U.S. bungling permitting the theft of explosives from an ammunition dump in Iraq. The senator has chosen to predicate the entire final week of his campaign on the unsolvable mystery of what happened to the bomb-making material in the chaos surrounding the invasion of Iraq.

By stepping up to bat and running an ad in which he speaks directly into the camera in an effort to win votes over the issue, Kerry has made the dubious journalistic accusations his own and bet his credibility and his candidacy on the outcome.

How will we ever know when the explosives were removed from Al-Qaqaa and by whom? How can we tell if they were taken away by Saddam's minions before or after he fell from power, before or after the United States troops had passed by the dump? We can't, any more than we can tell who did what in the jungles of Vietnam 30 years ago.

Because we can't know the final truth of Al-Qaqaa, it was a ridiculous decision by the Kerry campaign to jump with all four feet onto the issue. When Kerry should be scoring aggressive points, he will find himself debating the fine questions of who did what in Iraq in the frenzied days of late March and early April of 2003.

Beyond our inability to determine the truth of the Times story lies the sense of dirty tricks that comes from a last-minute journalistic accusation — made even more heinous by the CBS News' now-exposed plan to break the story 48 hours before the polls opened on "60 Minutes." Voters will easily recall how the same show fell for forged anti-Bush documents and tried to palm them off on us just last month.

Kerry's mistake runs deeper. Right now he should be talking about domestic-policy issues — the ones where he has a lead. To batter futilely at Bush's bastion of strength — foreign policy and the war — is to throw good money after bad in one last failed attempt to replace a sitting commander-in-chief as America's choice to run the war.

On Bush's worst days, voters have consistently told pollsters they trust him more than Kerry to run the war, usually by double-digit margins. What makes Kerry think he can win the point now? He's failed at it all year; now he squanders his final week on one last effort.

In undertaking such a gamble, Kerry ratifies Iraq, the war, terrorism and foreign policy as the key issues in the race at just the moment when he should be downplaying them.

By jumping on the explosive issue as a target of opportunity, Kerry has shown that he has no real campaign strategy, only a series of tactics. He may have a plan for America, but he has none for winning this election.








politics
13,479 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from PolMach Forums Top
Yeah. If only Kerry could get his act together and stop running this horrible campaign, there would be a descent President who knows the meaning of the word diplomacy, which is something that was lacking for the past few years.
Reply #2 from PolMach Forums Top
How will we ever know when the explosives were removed from Al-Qaqaa and by whom? How can we tell if they were taken away by Saddam's minions before or after he fell from power, before or after the United States troops had passed by the dump? We can't, any more than we can tell who did what in the jungles of Vietnam 30 years ago.


me again...lol

Well the footage filmed by the embedded Journalist from Minnesota showing the munitions in the depot on April 18th goes a long way to proving it was after the invasion. And more importantly after the military knew they were there. But I'm sure some Halliburton folks snached them up and sold them back to the insurgents. Just kidding couldn't resist.

As much as I think this was a blunder by the administration. I agree it was badly played by Kerry. GWB won the war but hell you could have won it too. There was no resistance. Lets not forget that. The peace has been badly bumbled, and this is a fine example of that bumbling. It was way too late to make this an issue to topple Bushes support on the war, and 4 days was way too much. This wasn't going to change anyones mind. It's a grey area. It's like the Osama tape, a non factor. Undecideds will base their decision on the economy, and I think the falling economic indicators and rising unemployment, and shallow consumer confidence released last week were much better positions to spend those precious four days on.

I think the elections over. I think Kerry will win, I think Ohio, Pennsylvainia and Florida will swing Kerry's way. If he holds Michigan and NH Bush can't win. The numbers don't work. Right now Bush is up 1.9 with a 3% MoE in FL, but It's been falling slowly for days. In ohio the latest Poll has it at .2 for bush, but again he's slowly losing ground.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #1 By: latour999 - 10/31/2004 2:29:25 AM
Yeah. If only Kerry could get his act together and stop running this horrible campaign, there would be a descent President who knows the meaning of the word diplomacy, which is something that was lacking for the past few years.


Keep talking and wishing. Come Nov 3rd you and yours will be singing a different tune!
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #2 By: Cappy1507 - 10/31/2004 2:32:31 AM
How will we ever know when the explosives were removed from Al-Qaqaa and by whom? How can we tell if they were taken away by Saddam's minions before or after he fell from power, before or after the United States troops had passed by the dump? We can't, any more than we can tell who did what in the jungles of Vietnam 30 years ago.


me again...lol

Well the footage filmed by the embedded Journalist from Minnesota showing the munitions in the depot on April 18th goes a long way to proving it was after the invasion. And more importantly after the military knew they were there. But I'm sure some Halliburton folks snached them up and sold them back to the insurgents. Just kidding couldn't resist.

As much as I think this was a blunder by the administration. I agree it was badly played by Kerry. GWB won the war but hell you could have won it too. There was no resistance. Lets not forget that. The peace has been badly bumbled, and this is a fine example of that bumbling. It was way too late to make this an issue to topple Bushes support on the war, and 4 days was way too much. This wasn't going to change anyones mind. It's a grey area. It's like the Osama tape, a non factor. Undecideds will base their decision on the economy, and I think the falling economic indicators and rising unemployment, and shallow consumer confidence released last week were much better positions to spend those precious four days on.

I think the elections over. I think Kerry will win, I think Ohio, Pennsylvainia and Florida will swing Kerry's way. If he holds Michigan and NH Bush can't win. The numbers don't work. Right now Bush is up 1.9 with a 3% MoE in FL, but It's been falling slowly for days. In ohio the latest Poll has it at .2 for bush, but again he's slowly losing ground.


Well right now www.electoral-vote.com has GW ahead by 40 points so I ain't so sure of you viewpoint. As far as the explosives you need to read this first.

Link

And Cappy....Please read the entire article. Thanx.
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
Yeah. If only Kerry could get his act together and stop running this horrible campaign, there would be a descent President who knows the meaning of the word diplomacy, which is something that was lacking for the past few years.


Diplomacy ended at roughly 0930 on 11 SEP 2001. You can't have a reasonable discussion with people who believe they are doing God's will by killing us. Listen to the audio track on Nick Berg being beheaded and tell me you can reason with those animals.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well right now www.electoral-vote.com has GW ahead by 40 points


and if you check the avg nonpartisan map, youll find: bush-263  kerry-248 with only florida holding the rest of the votes.  in other words, sosdd.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #6 By: kingbee - 10/31/2004 3:15:42 AM
Well right now www.electoral-vote.com has GW ahead by 40 points



and if you check the avg nonpartisan map, youll find: bush-263 kerry-248 with only florida holding the rest of the votes. in other words, sosdd.


I hate to tell you this but it don't get no more non-partisan that electoral-vote.com. Theirs is compiled from state by state polls. Just about everyone on this site now uses them. Left, Right, or down the middle. Dems, Reps, liberals, whoever.
Reply #8 from PolMach Forums Top
The following excerpts all show what in my opion is mismanagement.

because the site was not guarded by U.S. troops

Two weeks ago, Iraqi officials told the IAEA, a U.N. agency, that the explosives vanished because of “theft and looting ... due to lack of security

another large unit, the 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division, moved into the area. That unit did not search Al-Qaqaa. A spokesman for the unit said there was heavy looting in the area at the time.

On April 18, a Minnesota television crew traveling with the 101st Airborne shot a videotape of troops as they first opened the bunkers at Al-Qaqaa. It showed what appeared to be high explosives still in barrels and bearing the markings of the IAEA.

U.S. weapons hunters did not give the area a thorough search until May, when they visited three times, starting May 8. They searched every building on the compound over the course of those three visits but did not find any material or explosives that had been marked by the IAEA.

The only statement that could possibly support the argument that the explosives could have been removed before the war was rumsfield, who you would have to admit is a little biased and has a little bit laying on the line with this...

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others have advanced the theory that the materials were removed before U.S. forces arrived, saying looting that much material would be impossible by small-scale thieves and that a large-scale theft would have involved lots of trucks and would have been detected.


Interesting choice of words Theroy. Come on, I mean the guy is toeing the company line.

The fact is a major Munitions dump was left unguarded in an area where heavy looting is being reported. Someone dropped the ball. Here are the plausable excuses:

1. They didn't have enough guys on the ground to cover everything and this was deemed unimportant.
2. The guys from the news crew were mistaken about where they were. Or edited the film to make Bush look bad.
3. Someone removed all of the seals and the munitions were destroyed.
4. There never were any munitions. And Kerry is behind this whole thing.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. Its a non issue like I said. Everyone knows they had no plan to "win the peace" (god I hate that phrase) so like I said previously... Those that were for him are still for him, those who know he's a numbskull aren't going to change their minds.

I was undecided until about 10 days ago. I favored Bush slightly. I like Kerry's stance on Domestic Policies. I like Bushes Homeland sequrity Policies right up until the Invasion of Iraq. I don't think many could do a better job than he did. Maybe Guiliani maybe not. But I didn't like Bush's Maverick Cowboy Routine on Foriegn Policy. What it came down to for me was who did I trust not to push the button until the other missiles are in the air. Let's face it, Kerry would be on the phone negotiating with anyone that would listen until somone told him the missles were on radar, then he's hit the button. Bush would hit that sucker like it was a whack-a-mole game and he just found a roll of quarters. Then he's go on the air and tell us how hard it is to be president.






Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

I hate to tell you this but it don't get no more non-partisan that electoral-vote.com.


and thats exactly where youll find the avg non-partisan map.  Link    as well as the totals i mentioned. 

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let's face it, Kerry would be on the phone negotiating with anyone that would listen until somone told him the missles were on radar, then he's hit the button.


no he wouldn't....he would get on the tv and report that the troops had committed atrocities and were worthy of being charged for war crimes, and that is why America is about to be blown to bits....then he would run to his bunker and wait until the fall-out was over.
Reply #11 from PolMach Forums Top
electoral-vote is only non-partisan because they don't use their own polls, they use others, so when a Republican siding poll is most recent, it would appear Bush is winning. Tha New Jersey tie is only predicted to be even by one poll, that's not even a swing state, but it was the most recent. Unless all of teh most recent polls on that site are from Zogby, or another non-partisan pollster, it's not always accurate. bush-263 kerry-248 sounds about right.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Most discussions of the whole ammo dump fiasco I've read show total ignoraqnce of basic military operations and conveniently ignores some facts about a country like Iraq. The time frame in question ignores that assault troops were still doing what they do best, Shoot, Move, and Communicate. The mission wasn't to secure a freakin ammo dump already. It was to contain and eliminate any Iraqi resistance, and make sure the force and it's supply lines were secure, (you can't secure jack diddley without beans and bullets guys).
Let's recall some facts, not reported, but actually live video feeds from imbedded reporters with the troops during the assault toward Bagdad. Anyone vaguely remember all the dumps and facilities US troops came across on the outsklirts of Bagdad? Facilities the UN had not even inventoried or knew about. We all remember the elaborate shell game being played with the UN after the first Gulf War. "Oh no Mr. UN Inspector, those aren't weapons, it's a Baby Formula factory, can't you read the sign?" Come on already, the whole country of Iraq had and has so many weapons and ammo dumps it makes Restone Aresanal look like a closet full of firecrackers. And please remember, the rules go like this; we can't touch a Mosque, but they can hide in them, store weapons in them, and snipe at our troops from them. (Before anyone jumps me for being insensitive and anti-religious, this is my viewpoint: if it fires back, and it has combatants in it, it's no longer a church, temple, or mosque, it's a target.)
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Our failure was to properly secure the amo dumps, borders and areas of resistance that exist in Iraq and are killing Americans every day. We did not have the manpower needed to establish and maintain control and our troops have paid the price of that decission in blood. That is a BUSH failure both dureing the planning phase and aftter it became clear we could not do the job with the number of military available!
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Cappy1507 and COL Gene have obviously not been paying any attention. Or more likely are intentionally ignoring all the evidence.

Both have been using the same tactic - we've made an unsubstantiated allegation, now you guys prove it wrong. Oh yeah, and we've found one piece of video that doesn't prove the allegation but we're going to say case closed anyway. Now, again, prove us wrong.

Some people just don't care - they have made up their minds on emotional grounds and are going to jump on anything that floats to the surface of the swamp as justification for those emotions. So be it.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Some people just don't care - they have made up their minds on emotional grounds and are going to jump on anything that floats to the surface of the swamp as justification for those emotions. So be it.
That is truely the problem with politics these days.  Insightful to you.
Reply #17 from PolMach Forums Top
Dick Morris is SUCH A DAMN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN!!

So why should they even listen to Dick Morris who is a Republican ?

, Happy Halloween, Samhain, or Harvest Festival (take your pick and if I did not include your choice please let me know and I will add it for future reference)!!

Dick Morris PLINKO!!
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Some people just don't care - they have made up their minds on emotional grounds and are going to jump on anything that floats to the surface of the swamp as justification for those emotions. So be it.
That is truely the problem with politics these days.  Insightful to you.
Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
You guys are tiresome. I have agreed with drmiler on 3 of 4 points on this issue, 1 that Kerry didn't handle this right. I've agreed that 2 this is a non issue, and that 3 it's not going to change anyones mind, but I have to agree with many military strategists, who have stated that we were risking American and Iraqi lives because we didn't invade with enough forces to prevent this kind of thing.

Bush doesn't have a plan, and even staunch Republicans should be able to get their heads out of the sand and agree that this is not going well, and that it is the administrations fault that it is not going more smoothly.


Reply #15 By: Daiwa - 10/31/2004 10:59:03 AM
Cappy1507 and COL Gene have obviously not been paying any attention. Or more likely are intentionally ignoring all the evidence.
I dont think the article drmiler posted is a very good arguement to back his point. I thought it was odd that he chose an MSNBC int the frst place because their a more liberal news source. I give him kudos for not throwing a Fox News article up there though.

Only a Republican would refute video evedence, lol and instead throw up a THEORY by the one guy whos butt is on the line as unrefutable evidence. BUT AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE this is a non-issue, it has no bearing on the election at all.


See moderates can come to the table. Diawa, and talk like rational people and see both sides. Liberals and Conservitives feel like they have to defend themselves against all comers. Your insecurities are showing, and you look foolish defending against this if you really don't think its an issue. You look like an jerk attacking somone, willing to praise your canadate for his good points, merely because they don't agree with every single thing he says and become on of his minions.

The rapid split between left and right is being purpurtarated by the Democrat and Republican parties, each polarizing the other parties members by making them distance their members from the other party. The country is tearing itself apart slowly but surely. A viable third party needs to situate itself right in the middle, because deep down inside none of you democrats are as liberal as you posture yourselves to be, and none of you Republicans are that conservative.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know how mine posted twice since it just gave me an error each time.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Only a Republican would refute video evedence


Cappy -

I haven't refuted the video, just called it what it is - evidence that some explosives were present in one of those bunkers, apparently
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Drmiler, "As far as the explosives you need to read this first."

Link
I went to this link but obviously you forgot to mention this part of the article:


"But those 250 tons were not located under the seal of the International Atomic Energy Agency — as the missing high-grade explosives had been."

They weren't the same explosives and the Pentagon can't confirm there own spin either. It's just a Pentagon tactic to try and "muddy the water" enough to create doubt. Again, moot point. There were so many things looted after the fall of Baghdad that had been under seal (HIV and Black Fever viruses, high grade nuclear equipment) that the missing explosives are dwarfed by comparison. And by the way, there is NO dipute about whether these materials were looted before or after the invasion. The main issue is that the US is less safe because of the war and that is what is going to resonate with voters. The polls are totally irrellevant this time around.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sorry about that. TAB, Enter is a bad accidental key sequence. Continuing:

... at Al Qaqaa, on April 18, 2003. That's all it tells us.

And all I've done is try to hold people's feet to the fire for speculative accusations made without a factual basis. And if you've read much of my commenting, you'd know that I am anything but a "rabid" rightist. I have views on social issues that are a tad left of Kerry and there are many issues on which Kerry & I share common ground. It's just that he is 1) a weasel who wants everything both ways, and 2) in possession of the wrong mindset for successfully dealing with the terror threat.

Again, I'm more interested in being sure that unfounded allegations aren't blindly accepted than anything else and that has been the focus of most of my comments. And I can see how you took offense to the comment you quoted. Must have gotten carried away, and I extend an apology. Mea culpa.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's just a Pentagon tactic to try and "muddy the water" enough to create doubt.


T_Bone -

The Pentagon didn't try to "muddy the water," the truth of what the Army unit did inconveniently muddied the water. What they reported was absolutely factual and they didn't try to spin into something it wasn't, unlike the NYT.

The main issue is that the US is less safe because of the war and that is what is going to resonate with voters.


That is a matter of opinion. You have yours, I have mine. Everyone should be sure to vote.

Cheers,
Daiwa