How will casting spells work?

From the screenshots, it looks like there's still the mana pool concept, but whether or not it's for both combat and outside of combat is probably unknown at this point.  I agree- if you're going to bring your channeler into combat, it'd be sweet to not have to spend mana points to be effective in battle.

Yeah I hope they don't copy AoW:SM's method, unless they make some serious changes. A powerful channeler should be able to enable significantly smaller armies to defeat much bigger/better ones with little magical aid. This was largely mitigated in AoW:SM by limiting your mana use per turn so drastically especially by including overworld spells in that limit.

It meant that the wizard's magic was very efficient in combat when two small armies were engaged (really hurting one unit is a big deal when each side only has 2). But it was much less useful in larger engagements, the most it really did in those situations is allow a slightly weaker army to triumph over a slightly stronger one.

On a related note I'd love channelers be able to try to counter enemy combat spells in real-time. It could result in magical contest of strength above the battlefield, possibly represented by pretty colors, and occasional ripples of magic could break off and strike the battlefield (probability of which units to hit could depend on the channelers' strengths). Eventually the attacker could win, and his spell finally gets through (but the channeler has been drained over that time of more mana than he originally intended), or he could give up and a new round of casting could begin.

Basically I'd like to see a dynamic spell-casting system, where what and when you cast depends heavily on what the opposition is doing. Sort of the way it worked in the Sword of Truth series, actually - where in large-scale battles, magic acts as a second front. The magic users strive against the other magic users with the intent of supporting their troops or damaging the enemy - but they have to outwit or outcast the opposition before their spell is realized. No game has ever given me that "magic vs. magic" feel.

For example, in big battles with strong spell-casting heroes in HoMM, it always feels like each hero flinging spells at the other side with the occasion buff/debuff, until one side runs out of units or mana. The only real "magic vs. magic" is in dispelling. Basically HoMM uses magic as a tool that functions on the same level as units. In Elemental, in battles where both sides are using magic, I want the magic to directly strive against each other. I'd like it to work like this with world-altering spells, too (any spell that affects any region of the world, not just the crazy endgame ones). Now I have no idea how in the world to implement something like this, but I think it would be very, very cool.

Good idea. Imho you should be able to counter almost every spell with a similar spell of an opposite school. For example if my enemy uses a fire spell, I could use a ice spell to avoid some or all of it effects.

Depending how spells are ranked, you could use a whole range of spells to try to counter enemy spells with differenct chances and effects.

So, let's say the enemy casts a lvl 3 fire spell. I could now use a any ice spell to try to counter it. A lvl 1 ice spell could have a chance of only 25% to counter it, a lvl 3 ice spell a 50% chance, a lvl 5 spell a 75% chance, etc. (All numbers are just examples and would be prone to tweaking and balancing.)

Or it could depend on mana cost. A counterspell with a higher mana cost then the original spell has a higher chance to counter, while one with a lower mana cost has a low chance.

Or there could be specific spells of each school that allows counterspelling. Doesn't really matter which system, but just any way to counter enemy spell casting would be very nice and would give one more of a magic duel feeling. It shouldn't be a sure way to counter a spell and cost something, but the ability to do so would be very nice.

It'd be neat if that would just be an option of how to use a spell. For example, I could choose to target an enemy unit with my ice spell, or I could choose to target my opponent's incoming fire spell. Sometimes you could even be able to counter a spell with the same spell. The problem with any system like this is that it requires prior notice to what the opponent is going to cast - but how can we make it so both casters can see what the other is planning to cast and both react? The result would be chaotic unless we can think of a balanced mechanic - and one that doesn't require twitch reflexes.

Because combat isn't strictly turn-based (it's "continuous time turns" whatever that means), it might not be such a big problem. I think it would be really neat for channelers to be able to sense what an opponent is about to cast, and be able to try to do something about it. More than just casting an opposite spell, but by trying to actually take control over or mess up the enemy's spell. Actually, I just thought of something cool:

One way to counteract a spell should be to cast the same same spell, targeted at the enemy spell itself. The result of this wouldn't be "Player A casts fireball. Player B casts fireball at Player A's fireball. They collide in midair and annihlate each other." Instead, it should be, "Player A casts fireball. Player B casts fireball at Player A's fireball. Player B has a chance to cause Player A's fireball to fizzle, and a smaller chance to take control over Player A's fireball."

This way if I am a master of all things lightning, and a rookie by comparison tries to cast chain lightning on my troops, I should be able to easily cause his chain lightning to fizzle, and have a good chance of being able to redirect it onto his own troops. The overall power of the channeler should be taken into consideration as well, though: an average channeler's high level spell shouldn't have an advantage over a much stronger channeler's lower level spell.

If you don't know the spell being used against you, other spells should be able to act as counterspells without the possibility of redirection. For example, if your enemy is casting chain lightning and your channeler doesn't know that spell, you could still cast a defensive spell like "Ice Wall" at the chain lightning spell, weakening or fizzling the lightning spell depending on various factors. Using defensive combat spells should be more effective as counterspells than using offensive spells. This would also make defensive spells more useful - most games suffer from defensive spells not being worth using.

The biggest reason why I want a system like this is because it would make magic feel epic. Being able to actually fight against opponents' magic with your own would be so cool, and being able to be creative about how to do it would be even more awesome.

Edit: Another reason why I system like this would be cool is it would make battles differ based on who you're fighting.

I also thought of another thing: some spell costs and effects should be variable. A good example is a spell like Ice Wall. In pretty much every game with a spell of this sort, it goes something like the following:
Level 1: Creates a 3 tile wall of ice with 100 hp, costs 10 mana
Level 2: Creates a 4 tile wall of ice with 150 hp, costs 15 mana
Level 3: Creates a 5 tile wall of ice with 200 hp, costs 20 mana
etc.

What I'd like to see is those numbers be maximums. I want the player to be able to draw the wall of ice on the battlefield in whatever shape we want. If I have level 2 Ice Wall, I want to be able to make a square wall - double the thickness (and thus any enemy would have to break through 2 of the tiles to get through) but half the width. Or if I have a higher level Ice Wall I want to be able to surround units, etc. The mana cost for a spell like this should be on a per tile basis. This could also work for spells like fireball (can change the area of effect). If you really want to go deep you could even be able to trade one aspect for another. Example: You have Level 2 Ice Wall but badly need one extra tile of ice? Fine, but each tile is only going to have the hp of a Level 1 wall.

I know a lot of people are more concerned about the 4X aspects of the game, but I think including an involved combat system with a good auto-resolver would bring the game to a whole new level. People who don't really care about the combat can auto-resolve. People like me who have at least as much fun with that aspect of the game as they do with the traditional 4X aspects can have our fun, too

I like this idea to a degree.  Nearly anything that could be considered a "game within a game" (like this idea to counter spells) would make the game more attractive to me.  A simpler version of Pigeonpigenon's idea might be for a caster to have the option of countering any spell from another spell caster as long as he also know the spell.  So, caster A could have the option of cast a spell called "bounce" (or something) at the start of the battle.  Then when caster B threw out of fireball, it would automatically be countered by caster A as long as caster A knew how to cast a fireball.  Then there would be no need to have an additional battle interruption with the announcement of what caster B was going to cast-I imagine this could get pretty tedious in a large battle.  Also, depending on how the spell school are structured -if two "fire wizards" met-it might be a good guess that fire balls would be volleying about and the bounce spell may be a logical thing to cast.  But if a fire wizard met an ice wizard-chances are that they will not know similar spells and it would be better to deploy another tactic (maybe some type of defensive fire spell, or become fully offensive).  This might also encourage players to try to specialize in spells not being developed by other players.

Yeah, it all depends on how StarDock will do those spells.

You could groups spells into a missile category (fireballs, frostbolts), a direct damage category etc. and base counters around those categories.

Or if spells are leveled like in D&D you could base counters on their level. Or on their mana cost. On their school, etc.

Possibilities are endless I guess, but the inclusion of a method to counter enemy spell casting is imho something we could agree on, then.

I should start off by mentioning Spell Blast from MoM. It was far too powerful: I seem to recall that every one mana counds against the 3 an enemy wizard is using in their current casting. Spell of Return? I think not.

I mentioned a while ago Terry Pratchett's Sourcery, where all the wizards build towers and throw spells at each-other. The spells mostly bounce off the tower defences and lay waste to the surrounding lands and their inhabitants. What I'm trying to say, is that epic wizard dueling is excellent, and I hope some thought will be given to counter-spell mechanics.

Actually, thinking about it, multiple turn ritual castings are pretty important too. The mana allocation between mana pool, research and casting skill worked very well in MoM.

I really like the fact that more mana is used to channel spells over great distances, and at the same time I like the domain/influence idea of AoW.  I think we should have a mix of them, like free casting in a wizard's domain with strain of mana (increase cost) for those outside the influence based on distance from caster.

I like pigeonpigeon's discussion of different levels per mana input.   I think the whole channeling of extra mana to give more effects was cool in MoM and has not been done in anything else that comes to mind (some have upgraded versions of spells, but its not usually more than 2 levels).   If that carried over it would be another good addition from MoM for a needed sequal.

Right now its hard to say how it will turn out since we have so little official info.

I think I have some ideas about why the devs might be keeping whatever they have in mind for the magic system mostly to themselves, but if they could even think of a few themes or questions they wanted us to kick around, it might be very helpful.

I like many of the ideas posted so far, but I have no clear impression about channeler spellcasting other than that by late game, they should be able to do some massive terrain changes and maybe do some of the other global things you could do in MoM like speeding up all your flying units.

And pretty much directly beside the OP's title Big Question is the business of how the 'cloth map' level will relate to the 'tactical' level (the shudder quotes are because all we really have to go on here are a few *rapidly aging* screen caps). How will mana flow from shards work in terms of supporting a channeler's global spells vs. a tactical fight in any given turn? Will 'essence' be some sort of ability rating that shapes how much mana you can manage in combat (so higher essence is tactically valuable) or are mana and essence two separate traits?