Where Would General Motors Be Without the United Automobile Workers Union?

http://mises.org/story/2124

Yes read it all! From working in a union at one time myself I can say every bit of this story is TRUE! I think alot of people that say " OMGZOR NOT THE UNIONS FAULT!" are either in a union themselves or want to be in one or as far as never has been in one. Heres the story:

 

http://mises.org/story/2124

 

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Where Would General Motors Be Without the United Automobile Workers Union?

Daily Article by George Reisman | Posted on 4/19/2006

This is a question that no one seems to be asking. And so I've asked it. And here, in essence, is what I think is the answer. (The answer, of course, applies to Ford and Chrysler, as well as to General Motors. I've singled out General Motors because it's still the largest of the three and its problems are the most pronounced.)

First, the company would be without so-called Monday-morning automobiles. That is, automobiles poorly made for no other reason than because they happened to be made on a day when too few workers showed up, or too few showed up sober, to do the jobs they were paid to do. Without the UAW, General Motors would simply have fired such workers and replaced them with ones who would do the jobs they were paid to do. And so, without the UAW, GM would have produced more reliable, higher quality cars, had a better reputation for quality, and correspondingly greater sales volume to go with it. Why didn't they do this? Because with the UAW, such action by GM would merely have provoked work stoppages and strikes, with no prospect that the UAW would be displaced or that anything would be better after the strikes. Federal Law, specifically, The National Labor Relations Act of 1935, long ago made it illegal for companies simply to get rid of unions.

Second, without the UAW, GM would have been free to produce in the most-efficient, lowest cost way and to introduce improvements in efficiency as rapidly as possible. Sometimes this would have meant simply having one or two workers on the spot do a variety of simple jobs that needed doing, without having to call in half a dozen different workers each belonging to a different union job classification and having to pay that much more to get the job done. At other times, it would have meant just going ahead and introducing an advance, such as the use of robots, without protracted negotiations with the UAW resulting in the need to create phony jobs for workers to do (and to be paid for doing) that were simply not necessary.

(Unbelievably, at its assembly plant in Oklahoma City, GM is actually obliged by its UAW contract to pay 2,300 workers full salary and benefits for doing absolutely nothing. As The New York Times describes it, "Each day, workers report for duty at the plant and pass their time reading, watching television, playing dominoes or chatting. Since G.M. shut down production there last month, these workers have entered the Jobs Bank, industry's best form of job insurance. It pays idled workers a full salary and benefits even when there is no work for them to do.")

Third, without the UAW, GM would have an average unit cost per automobile close to that of non-union Toyota. Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit. And the far greater part of that difference is the result of nothing but GM's being forced to deal with the UAW. (Over a year ago, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that "the United Auto Workers contract costs GM $2,500 for each car sold.")

Fourth, without the UAW, the cost of employing a GM factory worker, including wages and fringes, would not be in excess of $72 per hour, which is where it is today, according to The Post-Crescent newspaper of Appleton, Wisconsin.

Fifth, as a result of UAW coercion and extortion, GM has lost billions upon billions of dollars. For 2005 alone, it reported a loss in excess of $10 billion. Its bonds are now rated as "junk," that is, below, investment grade. Without the UAW, GM would not have lost these billions.

Sixth, without the UAW, GM would not now be in process of attempting to pay a ransom to its UAW workers of up to $140,000 per man, just to get them to quit and take their hands out of its pockets. (It believes that $140,000 is less than what they will steal if they remain.)

Seventh, without the UAW, GM would not now have healthcare obligations that account for more than $1,600 of the cost of every vehicle it produces.

Eighth, without the UAW, GM would not now have pension obligations which, if entered on its balance sheet in accordance with the rule now being proposed by the Financial Accounting Standards Board, will leave it with a net worth of minus $16 billion.

What the UAW has done, on the foundation of coercive, interventionist labor legislation, is bring a once-great company to its knees. It has done this by a process of forcing one obligation after another upon the company, while at the same time, through its work rules, featherbedding practices, hostility to labor-saving advances, and outlandish pay scales, doing practically everything in its power to make it impossible for the company to meet those obligations.

Ninth, without the UAW tens of thousands of workers — its own members — would not now be faced with the loss of pension and healthcare benefits that it is impossible for GM or any of the other auto companies to provide, and never was possible for them to provide. The UAW, the whole labor-union movement, and the left-"liberal" intellectual establishment, which is their father and mother, are responsible for foisting on the public and on the average working man and woman a fantasy land of imaginary Demons (big business and the rich) and of saintly Good Fairies (politicians, government officials, and union leaders). In this fantasy-land, the Good Fairies supposedly have the power to wring unlimited free benefits from the Demons.

Tenth, Without the UAW and its fantasy-land mentality, autoworkers would have been motivated to save out of wages actually paid to them, and to provide for their future by means of by and large reasonable investments of those savings — investments with some measure of diversification. Instead, like small children, lured by the prospect of free candy from a stranger, they have been led to a very bad end. They thought they would receive endless free golden eggs from a goose they were doing everything possible to maim and finally kill, and now they're about to learn that the eggs just aren't there.

It's very sad to watch an innocent human being suffer. It's dreadful to contemplate anyone's life being ruined. It's dreadful to contemplate even an imbecile's falling off a cliff or down a well. But the union members, their union leaders, the politicians who catered to them, the journalists, the writers, and the professors who provided the intellectual and cultural environment in which this calamity could take place — none of them were imbeciles. They all could have and should have known better.

What is happening is cruel justice, imposed by a reality that willfully ignorant people thought they could choose to ignore as long as it suited them: the reality that prosperity comes from the making of goods, not the making of work; that it comes from the doing of work, not from the shirking of it; that it comes from machines and methods of production that save labor, not the combating of those machines and methods; that it comes from the earning and reinvestment of profits not from seizure of those profits for the benefit of idlers, who do all they can to prevent the profits from being earned in the first place.

In sum, without the UAW, General Motors would not be faced with extinction. Instead, it would almost certainly be a vastly larger, far more prosperous company, producing more and better motor vehicles than ever before, at far lower costs of production and prices than it does today, and providing employment to hundreds of thousands more workers than it does today.

Few things are more obvious than that the role of the UAW in relation to General Motors has been that of a swarm of bloodsucking leeches, a swarm that will not stop until its prey exists no more.

It is difficult to believe that people who have been neither lobotomized nor castrated would not rise up and demand that these leeches finally be pulled off!

Perhaps the American people do not rise up because they have never seen General Motors, or any other major American business, rise up and dare to assert the philosophical principle of private property rights and individual freedom and proceed to pull the leeches off in the name of that principle.

It is easy to say, and also largely true, that General Motors and American business in general have not behaved in this way for several generations because they no longer have any principles. Indeed, they would project contempt at the very thought of acting on any kind of moral or political principle.

 

  How it works: $70

One of the ugliest consequences of the loss of economic freedom and respect for property rights is that it makes such spinelessness and gutlessness on the part of businessmen — such amoralitya requirement of succeeding in business. Business today is conducted in the face of all pervasive government economic intervention. There is rampant arbitrary and often unintelligible legislation. There are dozens of regulatory agencies that combine the functions of judge, jury, and prosecutor in the enforcement of more than 75,000 pages of Federal regulations alone. The tax code is arbitrary and frequently unintelligible. Judicial protection of economic freedom has not existed since 1937, when the Supreme Court abandoned it, out of fear of being enlarged by Congress with new members sufficient to give a majority to the New Deal on all issues. (Try to project the effect of a loss of judicial protection of the freedoms of press and speech on the nature of what would be published and spoken.)

Any business firm today that tried to make a principled stand on such a matter as throwing out a legally recognized labor union would have to do so in the knowledge that its action was a futile gesture that would serve only to cost it dearly. And a corporation that did this would undoubtedly also be embroiled in endless lawsuits by many of its stockholders blaming it for the losses the government imposed on it.

But none of this should stop anyone else from speaking up and making known his outrage at what the UAW has done to General Motors."

14,477 views 22 replies
Reply #1 Top

Management does not know how to innovate - because they always had the crutch of the UAW.  Sadly they probably still will instead of allowing them to die a natural death.  Pelosie and Reid (not Paulson!) will not allow them to die - they will be bailed out like all the other dinosaurs.

Problem is, they will still die - they will just take a lot more people with them when they do.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting Dr, reply 1
Management does not know how to innovate - because they always had the crutch of the UAW.  Sadly they probably still will instead of allowing them to die a natural death.  Pelosie and Reid (not Paulson!) will not allow them to die - they will be bailed out like all the other dinosaurs.

Problem is, they will still die - they will just take a lot more people with them when they do.

 

and make the country alot worse than it is now! Isnt it great?! While guys like me and you worry about our job security ( well mine went bye bye already for the second time today ) These guys will get the damn handouts to bail something that should by all means fail due to poor management on boths sides.

 

Though you have to admit that this guy does bring in points that are right on. I understand that Unions were needed in years past... but thats not now.

 

And the other thing... If the companies try to bust out the union well not only would they have the unions up thier backsides the Gov also would too... They are screwed unless they just file for Bankrupcy and be done with it

Reply #3 Top

Pure, exaggerated myth--the epitome of union bashing in the war against public employees, teachers, truckers--only union free workers are responsible. That is why non-plumber Joe is preferred to fix one's toilet than a licensed plumber. The fact remains up until the credit crisis the Big Three has managed to remain relatively competitive--why are American cars priced lower than foreign?--ever since the 80s.O:)   

Reply #4 Top

your kidding right? Its not bashing but is a fact. everything in here is true. Have your worked a union job? You see a need to have one person put the screw in and another one just to run the screw gun? Because that is the way it is. In fact why are people still paid to sit around and do nothing because of more automation? Because by union and laws they cant just lay them off.

 

Trying to compare the 80's to now is just silly. Its a more competitive market. With that its the job of the company to change. YOu cant do that when you got a union that has your balls in a vice. They wont take cuts. They want raises. They want better medical than they had. The cost of medical has gone though the roof and if you want better covrage than what you had before the price of course is going to go up.

 

Another thing... yeah the price might be lower ( though I highly doubt it ) but did you miss the part where the companies are taking a loss on the sale?

 

IVE WORKED BOTH UNION AND NON UNION to be honest i prefer a non union. none of this "AINT MY JOB" when you need a hand. OR getting in trouble when you help someone out.

 

As for plumbers, of course im taking the cheaper one.... why ? because of cost. If they check out why not? Why should I pay someone more money because they are union?

 

One more thing, because I get in trouble for helping another worker because its "NOT MY JOB"  not only does it slow down the production, it also cuts into the max profit the company can make.

 

Look if the big 3's union would have done like the airlines... then I would have issues. At least the unions in the airlines know when to bite the bullet and take cuts and untill the Auto workers unions do it... to bad so sad. Their greed got them there and they can deal with the BS that come with it, even if it means being jobless

Reply #5 Top

Pure, exaggerated myth--the epitome of union bashing in the war against public employees, teachers, truckers--only union free workers are responsible

Although some points did feel like saying the same thing in a slightly different way, how is it pure exaggerated myth? It's fairly well documented I think that if you have a strong union in a company, that company is far less likely to cut wages than if there was no union - i.e. you have less wage flexibility. Similarly it's tougher to fire people if they're in a strong union than if there's no union, again reducing flexibility. Unions also frequently demand pay rises, and are prepared to strike if they don't get them, meaning wages for workers in unions are on average higher than those for workers not in unions (in the same/similar jobs of course). So what you have is the union reducing flexibility and increasing wages. You have various statistics/reports etc. that back this up, as well as the basic intuition - if you're a company with a union, and try and cut wages, the union will likely strike, costing you money, meaning you're less likely to cut wages and may even be prevented from doing so. Similarly if you try and fire some workers to cut costs or because the workers in question aren't productive enough for you, the union may well strike, costing you money, and no longer making it worthwhile. This means the company won't hire as many workers compared with no union, and won't be able to be as profitable as it would otherwise have been. This means that if that company then fails there is a strong argument in favour of placing at least some of the blame on the unions. Of course it's debatable just how much blame they deserve - maybe the problem was caused more by a failure of the management to adapt to changing markets. Maybe it was caused by the poor structure of the business which just wasn't as efficient as competitors even if the workers were being paid the same levels+had the same rights, etc.

How is it that only union free workers are responsible btw?

Reply #6 Top

Isn't it more fault of GM that they let have UAW such a big and negative impact?

I mean saying that its fault of a union or even unions in general is a bit of a weak argument if you look at Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW or even Renault, Citroen and Peugeot. Most of their workers are in unions and there are even works councils. (speaking about "socialist" europe here where corporations also have to pay for pensions and health care and all that stuff and are incredibly high taxed)

Having to pay high wages can actually be good for a business longterm as it encourages investions into the automation of technical processes so they can lay people off and those innovations are lucrative in the long term.

 

 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting TheBigOne, reply 6
Isn't it more fault of GM that they let have UAW such a big and negative impact?

I mean saying that its fault of a union or even unions in general is a bit of a weak argument if you look at Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW or even Renault, Citroen and Peugeot. Most of their workers are in unions and there are even works councils. (speaking about "socialist" europe here where corporations also have to pay for pensions and health care and all that stuff and are incredibly high taxed)

Having to pay high wages can actually be good for a business longterm as it encourages investions into the automation of technical processes so they can lay people off and those innovations are lucrative in the long term.

 

 

 

HAve you ever been in a strike? Actually been part of one where you are out on the line?

I would assume not, and I would also go as far to say that you have not taken part in contract negotiations. Lemme let you in on something about strikes

 

Yes Ive gone on strike. And the crap that the union put the named company though in the bad media about how " THE BIG EVIL CORP!" was screwing us workers . Wanna know something? 6 years later there are still people that dont buy anything that has to do with the company ( though they would be shocked on how many private lables we slap on a product... just because it says one name does not mean that that said company made it )

 

Unions have enough pull like you couldnt believe. Lawsuits, gov, the amount of bad press is enough to bring companies to its knees and give in.

 

Our reps finally opened thier eyes when they realized that we actually had to work with the company to meet in the middle. Guess what... we got some of what we wanted which was a better starting wage for new hires and took a pay freeze on our wages at least in a sense that there was a cap on how much you could make.

 

So yeah to say that the company coulda done more.... sure... but seeing the after affects first hand on a more local company, I can only imagine how much national bashing the big 3 would have gone though if they forced a prolong strike.

Reply #8 Top

It's fairly well documented I think that if you have a strong union in a company, that company is far less likely to cut wages than if there was no union - i.e. you have less wage flexibility.
I trust you're not saying this is bad.

various statistics/reports etc. that back this up, as well as the basic intuition - if you're a company with a union, and try and cut wages, the union will likely strike, costing you money, meaning you're less likely to cut wages and may even be prevented from doing so.
Obviously but so what? Institutional labor has as much right as corporations in the attempt to dictate, however unsuccessfully. If we go back in time 90% of JU would be for unions. My main beef is that the UAW was not strong enough and lost the battle in preventing massive layoffs and doing something about the scabs in the south.

How is it that only union free workers are responsible btw?
According to the prevalent manifesto of JU. See Watertown's and Doc's epistles above.

Reply #9 Top

your kidding right? Its not bashing but is a fact. everything in here is true. Have your worked a union job? You see a need to have one person put the screw in and another one just to run the screw gun? Because that is the way it is. In fact why are people still paid to sit around and do nothing because of more automation? Because by union and laws they cant just lay them off.

No, I'm not kidding and I could ask you the same question. You are blowing this up beyond reality. Yes, I've worked union and non-union jobs and except for better conditions of the former, there is no difference in the comaraderie in the workplace. Btw, ever hear of magnatized screw heads? Even if your absured example were true, management would have decided it was more efficient for two men to do so.

Reply #10 Top

I trust you're not saying this is bad. ...so what? Institutional labor has as much right as corporations in the attempt to dictate, however unsuccessfully

Actually I am saying it is bad. Remove wage flexibility from companies, and it will have a negative impact on employment overall - if times are good, a company may well hold off on hiring the extra worker that would help them maximise profits because they know that if times then get hard they will struggle to get rid of that same worker. As a result you hurt the economy, with businesses not being as profitable as they can, not as many people are employed as could be, and all in all things aren't as good as they otherwise could be. If you want to avoid the fluctuations that come with allowing companies to set prices and hire+fire as they please, there is a cost to it.

 

Meanwhile a key point here is that companies can't dictate what prices the workers will work for. If a worker doesn't like the wage offered, they don't have to work, and can go to someone else for a job. However if a company will face strikes by it's workforce whenever it tries to cut it's wages, or fire someone, it CANT do the same - that is, it can't fire anyone striking and get someone else to provide the job, because it's typically illegal. So unions get to dictate prices, while the company can't, and the main check on the unions forcing prices up too much is that the more they strike, the more they hurt the company employing them, and therefore the more they put their jobs at risk. Of course that by itself isn't enough to stop them, and you often see unions working to effectively destroy their own jobs. For example in the UK the market for postal services was opened up to competition, but the former monopoly was still by far the market leader. The unions decided they didn't like their wages though, and so started striking. The result was that businesses (the most profitable part of the market) switched to the other competitors who were more reliable (their workforce didn't strike) and those people who decided to start striking over pay ended up with far worse job prospects.

Reply #11 Top

and I could ask you the same question. You are blowing this
Quoting stevendedalus, reply 9
No, I'm not kidding and I could ask you the same question. You are blowing this up beyond reality. Yes, I've worked union and non-union jobs and except for better conditions of the former, there is no difference in the comaraderie in the workplace. Btw, ever hear of magnatized screw heads? Even if your absured example were true, management would have decided it was more efficient for two men to do so.

 

No its not crazy examples . Did it first hand. ( not the screw example but simular simple jobs where one person could do more instead of standing there and watching co workers work ) Ill give you that with the conditions... but its not that big really unless you got a dick as a boss with a power trip... but I got ways to make life hell for those types with or without unions :P

 

You really think management think its better to do a job where one could do it? If they do then they need to be fired also.

Reply #12 Top

Actually I am saying it is bad. Remove wage flexibility from companies, and it will have a negative impact on employment overall - if times are good, a company may well hold off on hiring the extra worker that would help them maximise profits because they know that if times then get hard they will struggle to get rid of that same worker.
If there were no flexibility there would still be another 500,000 union employees in the auto industry. And changing the starting base from $28 p/hr to $14 sure is super flexibility.

Reply #13 Top

If there were no flexibility

There is flexibility - once you get out of the rust belt and the UAW.  They are dying due to their own ineptness and greed.  The only question is how much are they going to take with them.

Reply #14 Top

There is flexibility - once you get out of the rust belt and the UAW.
In the union free southern states, the only flexibility is in management; labor has no rights.

Reply #15 Top

In the union free southern states, the only flexibility is in management; labor has no rights.

It's a nice slogan and sound bite, but patently untrue.  IN the "free" states, management and labor are on an equal footing.  And that is why you find them more often working together, instead of working at odds.

Reply #16 Top

And that is why you find them more often working together, instead of working at odds.
You're old enough to know better that the great history of the American automobile was responsible for so many jobs and wealth for the nation for a hundred years.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting stevendedalus, reply 16

And that is why you find them more often working together, instead of working at odds.You're old enough to know better that the great history of the American automobile was responsible for so many jobs and wealth for the nation for a hundred years.

 

How do you like this so called "working" with the auto makers by the union? they are going to eleminate the job bank ( where you get paid I think 2 years total if you lose your job)

 

O wait thats right.... that was gonna be phased out ANYWAYS!

 

Look steve I am not saying all unions are garbage... but the auto union does fall in the garbage catigory. Im sorry no matter how you slice it, they are for only one thing and that is money. Greed is not helping them at all... now if they would actually rework the contracts with something substantial... let em go bust.

 

And to say that if the big 3 fail, america wont stop buying cars... they will buy other cars made in THE US... also that demand would ... wait for it.... create JOBS! OMG!

 

So good try man. Its a sinking ship I recomend you jump ship while there is still room left on the lifeboat.

Reply #18 Top

You're old enough to know better that the great history of the American automobile was responsible for so many jobs and wealth for the nation for a hundred years.

I am also old enough to know that liberal policies never die even after they have served their use.  And this is one of them.  Your staement is true - past tense.  As we see, the unions are not gaining footholds outside the rustbelt because the workers are happy - laws have changed.  And unions are no longer necessary.

I have an oxen yoke too.  But I dont use it these days.  I Guess I should since they served a great purpose in American history as well.

Reply #19 Top

So good try man. Its a sinking ship I recomend you jump ship while there is still room left on the lifeboat.
No way, unions are as American as apple pie and the flag pin.
It pays idled workers a full salary and benefits even when there is no work for them to do.")
So does Toyota and only because management needs to retool their strategies.

Reply #20 Top

I have an oxen yoke too. But I dont use it these days.
Why? because it is environmentally correct to go to Walmart by cart, lest you be accused of being a lefty loony? Yes, times have changed and so has unions--granted a dying breed--but that's no reason for the principle of bargaining rights be deceased:'( .

Reply #21 Top

Quoting stevendedalus, reply 19

So good try man. Its a sinking ship I recomend you jump ship while there is still room left on the lifeboat. No way, unions are as American as apple pie and the flag pin. It pays idled workers a full salary and benefits even when there is no work for them to do.")So does Toyota and only because management needs to retool their strategies.

 

to your last statement... granted you can retool , but here is the big difrence... Toyota is ABLE to redo things job wise where once you have union you cant do it. Once union you cant just as easy give a pink slip to said workers

Reply #22 Top

Yes, times have changed and so has unions--granted a dying breed--but that's no reason for the principle of bargaining rights be deceased

Nor am I advocating it.  I am saying that the old incestous relationship between union and companies is dead.  Or should be.  The only thing propping them up is the government now.  And we are about to see how inept those in congress are.

Besides, I do use my oxen to go to Walmart - when Gas is $4/gal and hay is only $2.50 a bushel. ;)