Mystery initiation

or not, discuss

In the thread on sumoned creatures Ars Magica, a paper and pencil RPG, was brought up.  I'm a preposterously devoted fan of the game but paper and pencil RPG's (or as many of us like to call them, real RPGs) are drastically different things than turn based strategy games.

However there is one concept from Ars magica that I would like to offer for discussion, that is the concept of Mystery initiation.

In Ars magica characters start with a collection of peculiarities in their magic - a penalty with fire magic, a fantastic ability to cast spells on mice, a cyclical bonus or penalty to their rolls in acordance to the phase of the moon, the ability to incorporate sympathetic bonuses from props and focuses to their magic when casting weather spells, smaller penalties to cast spells while speaking quitely, inability to use magic while in shadows, and so on.

For the most part these virtues and flaws are fixed at character creation and don't often change.  The method for changing them is mystery initiation.

Mystery initiation uses quests, rituals and sacrifices to give the character new virtues and flaws.  For instance a character who is initiating into the virtue of Arcadian travel must on a specific night starting at a specific location travel without the use of spells deep into the realm of the faerie while being pursued by the inhabitats of the realm.  This experience grants the character the arcadian travel ability but it also gives him a phobia appropriate to his pursuers and makes his starting location a permanent arcane connectin to him (that's a big vunerability).

In another example a character who is learning a virtue that allows him the ability to see all sorts of mystical effects and immaterial creatures without needing the use of spells spends three months entombed in a specific dark cave drinking only water and eating only the blandest gruel.

Now while the specific instances can't be tranported into Elemental some basic ideas could be:

1 Gaining characteristics such the abilities in Age of Wonders 2 or Master of Magic - such as alchemist or channeler could be done OUTSIDE of the normal advancement system by the use of quests.  (ie. spend four turns in the volcano of Sulpher fissure standing agains the inhabitants until two new moons have crossed the sky),

2 The aquisition of new characeristic past character creation involves difficult choices - sure learning the mystery of Hermetic Glamour magic would rock but do I have the time to devote to it and can I handle the vunerable magic flaw that comes with it? 

This system works in Ars magica because the advancement system is inextricably linked to the passage of time, a season spent studying cult lore that is useless outside of intiations is a season not spent studying arts, learning spells, gathering magical resources or enchanting devices.  In a TBS game the profit and loss dynamics will probably need to be re-tweaked.

11,306 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

Is there a chance that devs have played Ars Magica? Because it's a so good PnP RPG. I could make a list of virtues and flaws that the book gives.

Reply #2 Top

devs have played Ars Magica? Because it's a so good PnP RPG. I could make a list of virtues and flaws that the book gives.

You don't need to, here's a list of virtues and flaws in fifth edition as of the release of the Realms of Power: Magic book in August (Hedge magic is shipping presently so it is already somewhat out of date)

http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/ArM5VFIndex.pdf

Reply #3 Top

Excellent. I have an old version of Ars Magica (the 2.0 O_o). I didn't know they were at fifth ...

Reply #4 Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 3
Excellent. I have an old version of Ars Magica (the 2.0 ). I didn't know they were at fifth ...

If you really have a second edition book you've got the favorite of many folks for being the most elegant and accessable, In my opinion it also has perhaps the best combat system of any edition (third edition being a possible exception).

But back to Elemental. As one who enjoys 4X games do you think that allowing alteration (at least some of the) channeler of characteritics only through quests and not through research is a good one?

It works in Ars because there are so staggeringly many things to do with developing arts, spells, spell masteries and so on that restricting the acquisition of virtues and flaws is like taking out a quarter of the book of a major library, (i.e. Regardless of the missing books, you'll still have eight times as many things that you'd like to read than you'll be able to finish before you die of old age).  In elemental will there be enough going on so that not having the options in your research book will still leave you enough to do.

Alternately could we split up options so that some are researchable and some are quest only?

Reply #5 Top

I have the 4th Edition. But I have never heard of this initiation system.

 

Implementing something like this into Elemental could be a good idea. So you and the AI are forced to let your mage wander about and are not able to hide him inside your fortress.

Reply #6 Top

Yes, I think quests should be a viable way to earn some flaws and virtues. It would add to the RPG element. In Element there's also lots of things to do with your channeler, so you still have hard choice to do. If I pursue a quest I can't imbue new heroes, or regenerate land.

 

Reply #7 Top

This really sounds awesome! It sounds like it could add a lot of strategy options, and have us making more choices in pursuit of our power. And it sounds like it could be unique enough to create entirely different experiences every time you start a new game! Which is very very exciting :grin:  But i have to ask whats a paper and pencil RPG? 8O

Reply #8 Top

Its a board-RPG, like what you see in cartoons of a group of nerds gathering dresing up in fantasy clothing and throwing dices creating their own story. It has its own charm but very few people (me included) can appreciate it.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting pizzapicante27, reply 8
Its a board-RPG, like what you see in cartoons of a group of nerds gathering dresing up in fantasy clothing and throwing dices creating their own story. It has its own charm but very few people (me included) can appreciate it.
Except it doesn't involve a board or getting dressed up.

A group of folks sit around and tell a story together.  Some of the characters in the story are described in terms of game mechanics (numbers) and there is a system for determining the outcome of the attempts of the characters in the story to accomplish tasks using (typically) dice.

It is a sort of combination improvisational radio drama and mathmatical moddeling.

But pizzapicante27 is dead on when he says:  It has its own charm, but very few people  can appreciate it.

Reply #10 Top

And it's Pen and Paper ;)

You gather some friends, some dice. And begins an interactive story. The Dungoen Master(DM) creates the world and each paler has a character. then it's all about dialogs between the DM and the Player Characters.

Reply #11 Top

I have absolutely zero Ars Magica knowledge, but if I got this right, it'd work somewhat like the traits in Age of Wonders (in Elemental game terms), with the added possibility of picking up additional bonuses (and penalties) as you stumble over things in the game world.

And I must say that if I got that right, it sounds absolutely great.

I hereby petition for a "Bear Lord" trait, that quadruples the production of all bears, but prevents you from utilizing any other mounts (resource points are used to feed the bears, obviously).

:p

Quoting RisingLegend, reply 7
This really sounds awesome! It sounds like it could add a lot of strategy options, and have us making more choices in pursuit of our power. And it sounds like it could be unique enough to create entirely different experiences every time you start a new game! Which is very very exciting  But i have to ask whats a paper and pencil RPG?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_and_paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 10
And it's Pen and Paper

You gather some friends, some dice. And begins an interactive story. The Dungoen Master(DM) creates the world and each paler has a character. then it's all about dialogs between the DM and the Player Characters.

Given my aptitude for making stuff up on the spot, I think I'd make a pretty good DM. I just wish I had ever gotten into PnP/RP:ing.

Reply #12 Top

HEre is a site that list lots of free PnP RPG : http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/1557/freerpgs.htm

Just make a choice, find a system (and theme) that appeal to you. Read, read, reread. Prepare a scenario. Invite friends. Enjoy :)

 

Ps: I know a system which is really great but.. in french .. if you're really interested in begining PnP RPG I could make the effort of translating it...

Reply #13 Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 12
HEre is a site that list lots of free PnP RPG : http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/1557/freerpgs.htm

Just make a choice, find a system (and theme) that appeal to you. Read, read, reread. Prepare a scenario. Invite friends. Enjoy

Ps: I know a system which is really great but.. in french .. if you're really interested in begining PnP RPG I could make the effort of translating it...
If that was directed at me, thanks, but the problem isn't that I don't have the books (I have a whole library of .pdf), or somesuch, but the fact that I don't really have anyone to play with.
:p

Reply #14 Top

Noone? Do you live in Siberia?

Reply #15 Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 14
Noone? Do you live in Siberia?

Might aswell.

:p

Reply #16 Top

I played GURPS, Dungeons and Dragons& and we still gather once every two weeks for a game. I just love playing even at 34! My girlfriend thinks I am a freak though...