harder to eliminate experienced units

Maybe it is a bit early to write it but i am going to assume we will be getting only a few heroes, beast units, and really experienced troops in a game.

(Was confirmed sort of at least about beast units and is probably a good guess in case of heroes)

If i will lose a lvl x hero i spent hours upon hours on building up i will reload the game. I assume most players will do the same. It is not something i enjoy doing but if the choice is between my precious hero or replaying the last hour i will replay the hour... eventually. May not be at once since it is boring and may not be ever, and the game becomes forgotten and not played any more.

kind of ot: The programmers of persona 3 should be sentenced to fuse a good alice, odin and thor. then they would realize it their fusion ui was a bad, bad design decision.

So i think some mechanic to prevent from reloading would be very useful - mechanic like in aftershock/afterlight for example: the possibility to save injured/routed units from the tactical map and to heal them afterwards. A fleeing mechanic would also be welcome, since in medieval warfare most units broke and run and were not killed to the last man.

So let the routed unit be unavailable for some turns, let it lose some experience, be in need of medical/magical attention, let it cost us a lot of gold for medical care even be way more expensive than to train and deploy a new unit, but let us have a possibilty to nurture the injured hero/beast/unit back to battle readiness through any other means than ultimate time travel "wish" - the last 24 hours did not happen- i.e. load a save game.

11,190 views 15 replies
Reply #1 Top

What would be excellent is a "hardcore" mode where you can't save. You save only when you quit.

Reply #2 Top

I am all for an ironman possibility as a rare challenge but i would not like to play so regularly.

But as a possibilty - sure!

Reply #3 Top

I think an ironman setting should keep a backup a fixed number of turns in the past, which it will let you access in case of save corruption (hopefully a rare occurance, but you can't always account for my accidental kicking of the extension cord).

I suppose life magic may have ways to bring your heros back?

Reply #4 Top

Maybe life magic could be used to bring heroes back, but I would instead suggest that resurrecting heroes should be done at the permanent expense of the channeler power. Exactly like imbuing the hero with magic, bringing him back from the dead should be a hard decision for the player.

Reply #5 Top

I think there's a fair point to be made in making whether a Hero unit lives or dies into a tactical/strategic choice for the player.

 

One of the initial analogies used by Brad was that of a Hero stirring up trouble in your kingdom, much like the heros from a D&D (or any pen & paper RPG) often did. To perhaps expand on that thought, the heroes from both books and movies often only die as part of grander gestures. They buy time for someone else to escape, scarifice themselves for the greater good, etc. For the 'evil' side, they are often sacrificed by their higher power (evil god, evil commander, etc.) to further that being's overall goals.

 

So perhaps Heros in this game should be similar. They shouldn't be immortal, but I think we can agree that their deaths should always be important and memorable (and likely allowed by the player) and not just that they were numerically overwhelmed. In such a case as they would be numerically overwhelmed, having them appear some number of turns later and perhaps grievously wounded would be far cooler. Even throwing in some element of chance that their capabilities have changed in some way (think Gandalf and the mines of Moria). I'm not suggesting that they come back weaker or more powerful, but potentially different in some way.

 

You'd lose the careful care and feeding of your Hero, but perhaps strategically/tactically it was important to do so. That way you can't, for instance, defend a city with a single Hero, but perhaps you could allow your Hero to die, which turns the tide of a battle (for that turn) and allows your reinforcements that are 1 turn away arrive.

Reply #6 Top

I personally would want to stay away from a means to easily bring back experianced characters, with exception to a specialist like a high level life-channeler.  I always was sad because my super-troops died, but thats the cost of use baby.  I don't think experiance should be so busted that you can't come back from it.

 

Now, the ideas that Dr. guppie mentioned sound good.   If every hero could be memorable in their death that would be awesome.   I'm having a hard time thinking of a good mechanic for multiplayer with it.

Reply #7 Top

I'm much a perfectionist type of strategist-I like to retreat indiv tanks in C&C, in Age of Wonders I train my heroes with the utmost care. I consider every unit loss a personal failure lol

Now I don't like when my heroes die, and I would like a way to bring them back, but it would have to be difficult, I suggest you have to sieze some specific tactical point, like a summoning square or something to make it a bit easier. Of course, these things would not be portioned off to each player-you would have to decide how much your going to sacrifice for your favorite heroes well being. Decisions like that make the game for me.

Reply #8 Top

Hardcore, Ironman... Bah! Keep in theme with the game. It should be called obsidian or diamond mode. :fuzzy:

Nonetheless I would like an experience system that goes to maybe 100 points. Furthermore I would like to be able to distribute those points to the unit. For example, each level gives me one point to distribute. I could give it to defense or offence categories. Both of those would have subsections for me to select. Moreover every 10 points the units base magic resistance should improve and every 20 points its base health. I figure 15% would good.

Reply #9 Top

In MOM you didn't have any control over how your heroes changed when they leveled up.  In AOW they gave you the ability to distribute points as you chose. I found a problem when I played Aow, which was that after a few levels my heroes started to all seem the same.  In MOM this never happened.  This was because when I leveled up a hero, I thought of certain things as being important, so I often strengthened the 'weak' parts of the hero, which tended to make they all the same.  I would argue that not allowing choice here would be better.  MOMs heroes felt much more unique then AOWs.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting lamperti, reply 9
In MOM you didn't have any control over how your heroes changed when they leveled up.  In AOW they gave you the ability to distribute points as you chose. I found a problem when I played Aow, which was that after a few levels my heroes started to all seem the same.  In MOM this never happened.  This was because when I leveled up a hero, I thought of certain things as being important, so I often strengthened the 'weak' parts of the hero, which tended to make they all the same.  I would argue that not allowing choice here would be better.  MOMs heroes felt much more unique then AOWs.

Well it could be just like we discussed for the research system... Blind 100% bonus, selection of a category 90% and selection of specific bonus 75%. That way everyone is happy - to some degree.

Reply #11 Top

I would really dislike a "closed" system of experience. A level cap is just silly. Is there a moment we stop learning things? A decay system for experience would be interesting, but in the limits of initial training. If a unit does nothing (not defending, attacking etc..) it should lose some xp.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 11
I would really dislike a "closed" system of experience. A level cap is just silly. Is there a moment we stop learning things? A decay system for experience would be interesting, but in the limits of initial training. If a unit does nothing (not defending, attacking etc..) it should lose some xp.

While I agree with the idea wholeheartedly in principle. From a general players practical view, such a system would force a heavy micro burden on players, unless it could be turned off. Consequently I think many would complain since the fun factor would be diminished methinks.

Reply #13 Top

Why not thinking in "reveers". you don't really gain much xp, just "temporary" abilities. And they become permanent only if you fight enough to make them persistant ;) That's the way we learn ;)

Reply #14 Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 13
Why not thinking in "reveers". you don't really gain much xp, just "temporary" abilities. And they become permanent only if you fight enough to make them persistant That's the way we learn

 

I was thinking more or less the same as you. You get a certain kind of  hero that as the potential to do different things and depending how he or she is used she levels in regards to the play style. I would still like to have the computer allocate points so my heroes are not who I make them to be vbut rather are who they are. Meaning  we are the Channeler but we are not our heroes. I prefer to have less control on them and have to control them by other means. I want them to be unique characters instead of characters that we can mold. Depending on the oplay style of the Channeler we can attract certain types of Heroes more then others.

 

So all in all I think in order to be authentic the Hero should level up without much interference from us.

 

 

Reply #15 Top

I agree about heroes in AoW:SM becoming more and more alike the higher level they get. I only just got the game recently, but all my heroes end up with the spell caster ability, high hp, attack and damage... So I'm all in favor of the game forcing different heroes to evolve in different ways. I'd like some input as to how they change with experience, but not too much.

What about a system that uses the personality/specialty of a hero combined with how you use them? If you recruit a hero who's famous for knocking people's heads in with a hammer, and you primarily use him to knock people's heads in with said hammer, then he should get better at knocking people's heads in ;P . On the other hand, if you use him to explore uncharted or scout enemy territory, he can gain scouting abilities - but relatively slowly, because even if you force him to go scouting, the driving force in his life is knocking peoples heads in with his hammer.

On the other hand if you recruit a forester with renowned scouting abilities, and use him to scout he will quickly improve his abilities. But if you including him with your main army and he ends up in the midst of a lot of fighting, he could slowly improve his combat skills - but not as fast as the guy with the hammer would.

In other words, the way your heroes evolve depend on the way you use them - but each hero has certain areas that they improve faster in, so it would be difficult to get a scout strong enough to go head-to-head with an equally experienced warrior hero.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I'm against hero abilities/stats/experience being temporary unless you continually keep them in practice. I think that in general, if you give something to the player, taking it away again because of some technicality is a bad idea. To me it's a case of too much realism being a bad thing. I play games to have fun; most of real life isn't particularly fun -> games should not mimick real life too closely :P