The Obama Transition So Far

Take a break ID this isn't healthy. Watch South Park.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/207897

I find it a bit interesting that, after people pointed out various (and in some cases alarming, for instance, compulsory community service for all middle school through university students) portions of his agenda on change.gov, it seems they got tired of trying to keep up and just removed those pages entirely.

Indeed. How dare they get trials with lawyers and stuff like that. I mean, it's not like they're innocent or anything. Oh wait, some of them are, like this guy-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

Murat Kurnaz spent 5 years in Gitmo and then was released, because he was just a normal joe who got picked up in Pakistan. His "crime" was that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, Pakistani police arrested him and gave him to the Americans who then alleged that he was a terrorist.

-However- he wasn't, the Americans got a lot of egg on their face for just taking whoever the Afghans or Pakistani authorities gave them and assumed they were all bad guy terrorists.

The reason why Murat spent 5 years in Gitmo (to later be released, with no conviction of any kind?)

Because it would be an embarrassment to admit that the Americans had prisoners there that were completely innocent that they didn't thoroughly look into before taking into custody.

If you read the book, "5 years in Guantanamo" written by this fellow, in his "fair and balanced" military tribunal he was told that the reason he got picked up was that one of his friends in Germany had committed a suicide bombing (this was a lie.. the friend they mentioned was still alive and had no connection to any terror groups)

Shit happens in war.  Get over it.

We must have really did an injustice to those 3 million + Axis prisoners taken during World War II and brought to the US. Those poor enemy soldiers didn't get a fair trial either. I'm sure some were forced to fight. My eyes are filling up with tears over it now. I guess the "trial" those four US contractors that got, dragged thought the street then hung from a bridge in Fallujah a few years ago, didn't go so well for them. Nor did it work out well for the two US soldiers captured, killed and mutilated, then had thier bodies booby-trapped. Need more examples of the enemies "humaneness"? These WAR PRISONERS in Gitmo should be praising Allah that their brand of "justice" is not being used on them. I'm always amazed at the liberal swell of emotion over these "poor" terrorists, while most wouldn't piss on a US soldier engulfed in flames to put him out. It also amazes me how anyone can write a book and others will take it as gospel "if it is in line" with their personal beliefs. Being a vet myself, this makes me sick. I think all prisoners should be treated humanely, but there should never be an outpouring of sympathy to an enemy that is getting much better than it gives. Oh and to potential enemy prisoners, don't pick up or support someone that picks up a weapon to use against US troops unless you accept the consequences. Of course three square meals and health care might be worth the risk for some, it's not like you'll be beheaded or anything.

BTW Wikipedia -great reference source! Who entered the info Murat or just friends of Murat?

I must have missed that one.  I would assume that is service in his National Civilian Security Force?

Maybe today I will post about the Gitmo detainees that have been released, and went on to kill numerous times again before being caught.  If you are comfortable having islamic terrorists represented in public courts, please say so.

No, though mentions of the NCSF seem to have been scrubbed as well before they scrapped the whole section (was trying to find it on google cache last night to show someone else).

I guess you aren't comfortable with having other dangerous criminals (Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson) being represented in public court as well then?

Not even mentioning that many of the prisoners there are only because some bounty hunters sold them as "terrorists".
(all those Uyghurs for example, even your own Government already admitted that they are innocent)

I am not saying that there aren't many very dangerous people there but the USA should be able to take care of them without violating all the human rights stand for or you've already lost the war and having innocents there without chance for a fair trial is somethink I expect from countries like Syria or Iran not the USA.

Are you really so scared of a 15 years old child that it is necessary to torture him and deny all his human rights?

Do you really thing it is smart to abduct innocent a german citizen while his is in another other country (Khaled_al-Masri for example). Aside from the fate of him it was also very stupid because now 10 CIA Agents have an international Arrest warrant against them. (which the USA ignore ofc despite being member of Interpol). Would you be okay when Germany started abducting innocent US citizen in Albania?

Do you really think that Countries which respect the human rights will cooperate with you under such circumstances.

Just because islamic terrorists don't respect human rights gives the USA no moral legitimation to do the same, it is short sighted and will only support those who want to propagate hate against America.

@Nitro_Cruiser, what he wrote over Murat Kurnaz is fairly accurate, if you understand german I'll happily provide you with dozens of sources for it but for now I am too tired of this "oh wikipedia, no reliable source" bullshit. Just try and change an article and look back 30 minutes later. If you wrote something obviously wrong it will have been reverted by this time. And you do know that the articles involve links to sources you can click on if you don't trust the article (and usually these sources are very reliable one unless its a new or sabotaged article)

Gitmo should have been handled much differently than it was.  The detainees should have been considered POWs and been done with it.  There are rules in place with long precedents. 

I do not believe that it should be handled in the US Court system either.  They are not structured to handle the processes.

handling them as POW (with all the rights you have as POW) would be okay - at least for those where it is likely they have been fightning, not for those the us army bought from bounty hunters telling them they are terrorists. Considering children as POW is also something I strongely oppose.

American criminals and terrorists caught on the battlefield are two completely different things.

they are less dangerous I guess? And you know what, I don't really care how you treat the guilty guys, but I do care a lot about how you treat those who might be innocent or the guys where it is already clear that they are innocent but which are kept because of political reasons like those uyghurs

(was pretty obvious you ignore the rest of my post though 

I didn't ignore your post, it's just not really worth my time as you obviously think islamic terrorists should stand trial in the U.S. courts.  Your rants about torture and human rights are taken right from the play book.  You should realize that Club Gitmo detainees get better treatment than in some federal prisons.

These people are living in a communal area, but with your reasoning we should send them back to China where they will receive their "fair" trial before they are executed (Yes, China is eager to have them back). Perhaps they shouldn't have been at the terrorist training camp when it was raided, damn the bad luck. Your good intentions equals their death sentence.

Nitro Cruiser I am aware of the problems with China but keeping them imprisoned even if it is in a communal area (which surely is a euphemism) isn't the solution, why not granting them status as refugees then? Is it because China would protest against such a decision?

Both approaches are wrong, and seriously flawed.

It seems the democrats want to give war prisoners regular trials, which is stupid.

It seems the republicans invented new definitions for war prisoners (for example, some turkish/german guy traveling between those two countries when an unsigned memo was given from an unknown source saying he is a terrorist with 0 evidence to back it up).

What we need is a complete overhaul of the prison system... You could be mistried for a crime you didn't commit here in the US and end up in prison for 5 or more years, there have in fact been cases like that... and while in prison you would be abused by the guards and be made into someone's bitch. So...

However, his experience not being much worse doesn't diminish its atrocity, and "shit happens in wars" is no excuse. Sure shit happens, but now you gotta pursecute the ones responsible for it happening, and create new oversight to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Prison, a government sanctioned volunteer rape brigade.

He might be!  After all she was the crafter of the plan that lead to the intel breakdown before 9-11.

What could be better than restoring the Gorelic wall, coddling terrorists, and turning America into a giant Detroit? Happy dayz are here again!

That would be funny if it weren't.

China is a big part of the problem. I'm sure we would not like them holding a US citizen, no matter what the crime. Calling these people refuges is not the answer either. They were picked up with the enemy. Why were they there in the first place? I don't think it's right for the US to fight "our" terrorist while turning a blind eye to another countries terrorists. I also don't think it would be smart to release these Uyghurs into the US population, because of what I said above, but more importantly because it's not fair to US citizens. They would need gov assistance and housing and there is no evidence that they would stop doing what they originally went to Afghanistan to do. Under the unfortunate circumstances, this is probably the best that can be done for them at the moment. Rest assured the US is in talks with China over assurances that they won't be killed the minute they are off the plane. By your standards gitmo is a terrible prison, well it just might be paradise compared to where they might be going.

BTW Happy Veterans Day to all those that served honerably and made/or are making a difference.

ID WRITES:

STUBBYFINGER POSTS #1

Oh yes it is...since we're stuck with BHO,  the "chosen one" as commander in chief, it's most important to keep each other informed...so I appreciate it.

The "Chosen One" promised a Socialist agenda paid for by "spreading the wealth around" and paid for by dipping into the pocketbooks of the so-called rich.

...and now, according to the Washington Times, he's deleted his massive agenda on his campaign website...gone are taxes and the economy, Iraq, and immigration.

ID WRITES:

 Remembered he campaigned saying his would be a "transparent" administration?

If I remember correctly, Clinton's EO were mostly done on the "quiet" or when Congress was away out of session. Not so with the Chosen One.

After taking office in Jan. 2009, one of his first pro-death moves will be to throw out Bush's pro-life policies and enforce taxpayer-funded embryonic stem cell research and abortion abroad (Mexico City policy) by executive order.

John Podesta, Obama's administration chief, told the Associated Press that Obama will act quickly through executive order because he thinks Obama "feels like he has a real mandate for change. We need to get off the course that the Bush administration has set."

A top transition official told the Washington Post that Obama and his team are consulting with liberal advocacy groups, Capitol Hill staffers and potential agency chiefs to prioritize the revamping of presidential policy that "they regard as the most onerous or ideologically offensive." 

Out of a list of about 200 Bush administration policies under scrutiny, the ban on federal funding for ESC research was the first policy mentioned in the Post article. 

In Catholic Online opinion column, Deacon Keith Fournier lamented that "with the stroke of a pen human embryos would become property, capable of being 'manufactured' like a commodity, and available to be used as spare parts in experimentation which has produced no discernible scientific results."

The Obama administration also plans to dispense with a ban on taxpayer funding for overseas aid promoting or offering abortion, known as the Mexico City Policy.  President Reagan instituted the policy in 1984, which was repealed by President Clinton in 1993 before being reinstituted in 2001 by President Bush.

Also, under President Bush's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), health workers are trained to emphasize abstinence and marital fidelity as the most effective ways to combat the spread of AIDS - another policy the Obama administration is likely to dispense with.

I keep saying the LIBERALS should start up an "adopt a terrorist program" they are so concerned about them.

firstly, embreyonic stem cells are not produced from aborted fetuses. Only cells 24-48 hours old are suitable... eggs and sperm are mixed in a petry dish, and 24 hours later disassembled under a microscope as they are too small to see with the naked eye (converstly, a woman doesn't know she is pregnant until at least a week since fetalization, and abortion isn't used until there is at least something visible to abort)...

But, regardless this process is bad, stem cells research should focus on modifying an adult cell into stem cells... why? because it is YOUR cells and not foreign cells, and as such there is no risk of them being taken out by your immune system (meaning immune supression is not required for the duration of the process).

But... if he just lets people work on those vectors of research rather then actually funnelling money to them, then it isn't that big of a deal. Aborted fetuses would never be part of it.

Excellent point.

When an egg and sperm unite, a human in his embryonic stage of life is the result...you and I and every human person were once in that stage of life....our very distinctive DNA was there. These cells are obtained by killing fellow members of the human species at a very young age.

There is a big distinction between embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells...

To my knowledge, ESC's have never helped a patient and it comes with a hefty price tag...the deliberate destruction of a human life, while there is great promise with adult stem cells already having shown to help people with heart disease, spinal cord injury, even Parkinson's disease.  

Embryonic stem cell research requires the destruction of human life at the embryonic stage and Obama knows this although he says it's above his "pay grade".

It will be our taxpayer monies that Obama uses to fund ESC research and that's where I as a Catholic Christian am obliged to protest.

How many times did I hear Obama talk about healing the nation, bringing people together....and yet how can a man do such when by executive order he enforces laws that tear babies apart in their earliest stages of life? Passing this into law isn't going to cause unity...it will cause division and conflict between the culture of death and the culture of life, between the culture of love and the culture of domination.  

I'm comfortable having people, regardless of race, nationality or association, represented in courts, because that's the American way. Or, it used to be, before they lost the plot.