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Ohio Exit Polls are interesting

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Ohio Exit Polls are interesting

from JoeUser Forums

Vote by Income
 
                                Obama         McCain
Under $15,000 (9%)
74%
24%
2%
 
 
$15-30,000 (14%)
61%
34%
5%
 
 
$30-50,000 (21%)
55%
44%
1%
 
 
$50-75,000 (23%)
54%
45%
1%
 
 
$75-100,000 (13%)
52%
47%
1%
 
 
$100-150,000 (12%)
41%
59%
N/A
 
 
$150-200,000 (4%)
42%
57%
1%
 
 
$200,000 or More
44%
55%
1%
 
 
I have been talking about this for a bit now but with the exit polls still fresh, here are the results from the key state of Ohio (which has been called for Obama).
You'll note that the people who don't pay taxes voted for the guy who is promising to give them goodies paid for by the people who do pay taxes. Look at those margins at the $30k and less, it's extreme. 
As you work your way up the income brackets (i.e. to people who actually produce stuff) the margin narrows and eventually turns in favor of McCain -- mind you, this is a state McCain LOST.
It's pretty clear, even this early on, that Americans are quite willing to vote for people who promise to give them stuff paid for by other people.  Clearly, it's a whole new "everyone for themself" world. I hope in the coming months and years people remember this.
I think one of the first things that will change as soon as taxes go up is that JU will stop being a free site other than for people I decide to give free premium accounts.  The rest should probably find another blog site if they object to paying for a service. There's plenty of free blog sites still.  There's plenty of time as I doubt taxes will go up until the end of next year.
22,917 views 62 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top

I made $1.25 an hour in 1976
End of quote

WOW!  That was in 72 for me!  I feel rich now! ;)

Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top

A pretty bold statement, given how many million people there are in the US. You see, you'll need to prove that that isn't the case for every single person. Fratz just needs to find a single one to disprove you!
End of quote

I'll wait.  But I know I will win. For while there are about 250 million people working in the us (ok what is just a bassian statistic), the truth is that there are only a few million (last government report I saw was about 4-5 million) working at minimum wage.  And his assumption is that the minimum wage will never increase.  So I have time on my side.  Next increase, and I win.

On balance, I'm prepared to believe that there is at least one person out there who has worked as much as they've been able, with an average minimum wage income per year (i.e. including periods of unemployment if they lost their job and had no income for a while while they tried finding another job).
End of quote

I dont have to prove there are not, now you just have to find that one.  But you probably wont.  I'll concede when you do.  And the average only counts for working years.  After all, a mother who quits the workforce to raise her kids would be below minimum wage, but hardly in your grouping.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #53 from JoeUser Forums Top

Fratz just needs to find a single one to disprove you!
End of quote
The thing is that I'm totally uninterested in disproving anyone because in reality it can't be done. People have their prejudiced view and that is how they will believe no matter what.

There's "data" to support any position you want to hold only a click or two away somewhere on the internet. There's really no point in arguing. I'm not arguing, I'm warning those that are so confident today that tomorrow may be a different story. You could step off the curb and be brain damaged in an instant. Alzheimer's, stroke, heart attack are very common and last I heard having money doesn't provide any immunity.

But I know I will win.
End of quote
There's nothing here to win. All that happens here is that little by little you expose part of your personality by which others may judge you. To some you may seem knowledgeable and perhaps that makes you feel important, however others may judge you petty and shallow. I've seen evidence to support both opinions, but the same could be said of all of us.

Basically what I see is hate for people whose only crime is to be somehow less fortunate. Even if that misfortune is of their own doing, which many here assert and which I deny, why does it warrant such hate? Perhaps we should just kill the poor. Line'em up and mow'em down. We'd probably be doing them a favor.

Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top

Basically what I see is hate for people whose only crime is to be somehow less fortunate. Even if that misfortune is of their own doing, which many here assert and which I deny, why does it warrant such hate? Perhaps we should just kill the poor. Line'em up and mow'em down. We'd probably be doing them a favor.
End of quote

Disingenuous.  It's not hatred, it's simply recongnition of reality.

Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top

Disingenuous. It's not hatred, it's simply recongnition of reality.
End of quote
No. It's hate. Unabashed and unashamed.

Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top

Basically what I see is hate for people whose only crime is to be somehow less fortunate.
End of quote

Where?  Hate for oneself?  For the most part, we have all been down there at the bottom, even Brad.  That is the problem with the perception.  The perception is not reality.  The poor for the most part donot stay that way.  They move up.  So where do the new poor come from?  Same place the old poor came from - those starting out.

I see no hate.

Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top

I see no hate.
End of quote
Of course you don't.

You can't see the hate that's been expressed throughout this entire forum because that isn't consistent with your own self image.

However I see a lot of hate which is why I've essentially given up on this site. I only respond to this one thread in particular because it's one in which I became engaged and when people make replies that specifically address me, I respond.

Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top

No. It's hate. Unabashed and unashamed.
End of quote

Simply calling an opinion hatred doesn't make it so.  It's also intellectually lazy.  If you can show it is hatred, please feel free.

Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top

Simply calling an opinion hatred doesn't make it so. It's also intellectually lazy. If you can show it is hatred, please feel free.
End of quote
I'm not attributing hate to any one particular person. How could I ever show what is in someone's heart?

However I see the tenor of this forum and I see hate all around. If you don't see it perhaps it's because you don't want to see it. In any case it's just my personal opinion and I make no claim to infallibility.

I have no need to prove anything. I'm merely calling like I see it. If you wish to deny my opinion feel free to do so, however that doesn't change what I see.

As Potter Stewart wrote in the 1964 Supreme Court decision of Jacobellis v. Ohio, "hard core pornography" was difficult to define, but "I know it when I see it". Well I know hate when I see it and that was why after about a week of interacting in this forum I effectively withdrew.

My mistake was to occasionally check back on a few threads in which I had commented to see if there were any replies specifically directed at me and after a hiatus of a week or so there was and so I responded. But I don't need to "prove" the hate, I merely need to avoid it. There is no "proof" sufficient to change the way someone has already decided to look at things. In any case I won’t make the same mistake twice.  :)

Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

And I respect your right to an opinion, as should we all.  It's a rough & tumble world, moreso in the anonymous blogosphere.  If you express strong opinions, you can expect to have others who disagree express theirs as strongly.  But I don't interpret disagreement as hatred.  Doing so seems rather intolerant to me.

Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top

You can't see the hate that's been expressed throughout this entire forum because that isn't consistent with your own self image.
End of quote

Not really.  I think you see your own reflection.  And I see an arrogance that is not unexpected, if still very sad. for those that do not agree with you, it must be out of hate, not enlightenment.  For the purity of your own views cannot be denied.  Or so your thinking goes.

As I said, I dont hate who I was.  It is a part of me.  But for you to be correct, I must.  Sad that there is no more debate in this country.  The left does not know how to, because they do not even understand why they believe what they do, only that they "feel" it must be so, and that the opposition is always filled with hate for not agreeing with them.

I remember a country like that not too long ago too.  It was called the USSR.  You either agreed or were arrested for a hate crime.  Now you have your chance (you and the rest of the left) to model this country after that one.  I am sure it will make you happy - until the censors dont agree with you either.

Reply #62 from Stardock Forums Top

Some of the best times I've ever had so far in my life are when I had little money. None of the bad times were really due to money. I agree with Doc and Daiwa, I have nothing but respect for someone busting their hump for low pay, hates not even a factor. Additionally the last thing a hardworking poor person would want is pity, most are proud that way. If you really want to help don't lump them together with the lazy or handout seekers. The cream always rises to the top.