I did not say i did...

Read it again....

Robby: Microsoft is well aware of the patch. Has been for over 7 years now. I also have email from them saying they don't see an issue with it. This went through their OEM division and Legal department. Still want to act like you have a clue?

Bottom line is if you don't like our policies then don't buy our products. It's that simple. I would never disrespect an artist the way some of the people here do.  The unwritten rule is you ask permission first if you're going to alter someone's art before you show it in public. Some of you need to read up on copyrights.

Don't you think life is to short to get upset about things like this,

You have a great job doing something you love......... and doing so well out of it.

And no harm done i'm just chating..

So your saying you have never broken a copyright....?

if not your the only one in the world....

 

Have a good night mate it's 2 am here and i'm going to bed....

 

OK, I'm going to say it, even though Jeff thinks it's none of my (or Bebi's) business.  It's a thread, a discussion, and for the sake of discussion (and argument), we all have an opinion, which adds to the discussion--it's why we come here, it's the point to the WinCustomize forum -- it's how we contribute to the skinning community here at WinCustomize.

First off, Elsius Saint, the originator of the thread, the poster of the screen shot, and the alleged violator of TSF's EULA, never admitted to the fact that the skin in his screenshot was Hyperdesk -- these were the responses of other posters, so since he did not admit to it being Hyperdesk, he's not damaging TSF's reputation -- we don't even know if he purchased the theme...it could have been a gift and then he wouldn't know the EULA terms.

This quote just makes me want to go out and acquire Hyperdesk to alter, modify, fold, spindle, convert, and in all manner "jack with" the theme, because, as Bebi said...what are you going to do to stop it?  I think you better acquire the technology to encrypt your skins, Jeff, because the way they stand, as Elsius Saint proved, he CAN convert the theme to another format, despite what you said (I know you meant he shouldn't convert the theme, but technically the word "can" means "being able to" and he's proved he's quite able to convert the theme).

It's just human nature, if you tell someone they can't do something, they'll try to find a way to prove you wrong.



Side note to Doc - what 2of3 is pointing out on the nav arrows is that they don't match up with the recessed background; they're pushed a few pixels to the right, so they don't sit nice in their little nest, like they should.

 

I guess it depends where you're sitting. Where you and Bebi are sitting are in your homes and have zero invested in this theme.

Me on the other hand works every night until 3 am on Hyperdesk. We spent over 2 months creating this theme and some person comes along and alters our work without our permission and displays it? Do you have any idea how disrespectful that is? What gives him the right to take and alter our work and show it in public?

 

The rule is you DO NOT ALTER another artist's work and display it in public without permission.

 

For all you out there, here are the Wincustomize rules: https://www.wincustomize.com/about.aspx/

 

The Rules

This site is a community site. As such, we expect users to behave with honor and integrity. Treat the person you post to or comment on a skin to as if they are sitting next to you. Picture this place as a nice, comfortable resort surrounded by friends.

More specifically, our rules have to be about the handling of intellectual property. This site carries intellectual property in the form of skins, themes, icons, and wallpapers. Intellectual property, be it software, music, books, or skins/themes is like any other type of property. When you upload something, you are agreeing to the guidelines set below:

1. Ownership: You own the materials you upload. This cuts both ways, we assume you made what you uploaded and we will not sell your property without your permission. You must not only own what you submit but the subcomponents of it unless you have permission from the owners of the property you are submitting. For instance, DesktopX objects are designed to be used in other people's themes. It is assumed that when you upload a DesktopX object that you are giving permission to others to use them in their themes and they can therefore upload a theme that includes your DesktopX object without permission.
   
   If you upload something that is owned by someone else or contains materials owned by someone else, we have the right to delete that item without notification. For instance, if you upload a wallpaper with the Lord of the Rings logo and the owners of that logo come to us and request we remove it, we will do so. Or if you upload a WindowBlinds skin, of some operating system, and the OS vendor requests we remove it, we will do so.
    
   

The fact that I have to sit here and have a discussion with some of you about how this is wrong is ridiculous.

 

and k10w3: He doesn't have to admit to what it is. He doesn't own the copyright, I do. That theme can only legally be had if it was purchased. Doesn't matter if it was a gift from his mother or Santa Claus, the EULA before installation states he can not alter it.

 

 

I would think that you've done business long enough to know that not all of your customers are respectful. If you are all that concerned about your art, then don't sell it -- lock it up, hide it, make it a rare thing.  I assumed you cared about making money, and that's why you've made your art available to the public for cash.  As I said in my other post, if you're really concerned about your (disrespectful) customers jacking with your products, then encrypt them.  


I think he believes since he's purchased  the product, he believes he has the right to alter your work as long as he doesn't SAY it's your work, or pawn it off as your original product.  I could purchase a designer dress, rip off the sleeves and sew something else on them, take a snap shot of it, and post it on the web, as long as I didn't SAY that the dress was an original from the original designer, there is no way a lawyer would come after me.  This is no different.

You don't HAVE to be here, if this is too painful or some how beneath you.  You certainly know that there are people whose sense of morality may not be the same as yours, and yet you open yourself up to do business with them.  

Now this is an interesting development. The name on the start menu is Anson. We have no record of any Anson buying this theme. Well Anson or Elesius Saint or whatever you want to call yourself I would love to know your order number for the Hyperdesk Flagship theme. Because the only way you can have this theme legally is if you paid for it. And if you paid for it we'll have a record of the sale. So far there is no Anson on record having bought Flagship.

 

You people still want to stick up for him?

 

K10W3: Wrong. I do have to be here because our copyrights are being infringed. And if he purchased it well i'd like to see that order number. I don't have to encrypt my themes to protect them. That's what a court of law is for.

This refers to uploads. A screenshot is not an upload. In fact, the site has a screenshot library where people can upload screenshots of their desktop, modified or otherwise. The only rule there is items are sufficiently obscured (eg wallpapers) to prevent being downloaded.

The same rules which apply to the screenshot library apply to the forum. That is what people look at when they post items such as this. Any other issues of display are beyond the scope of the individual concerned.

Again the actual specifics of copyright and display of such should be discussed in private with a Stardock admin - I would suggest you contact Island Dog. Making public posts about issues is not appropriate.

Same applies to rip reports. The skin which caused a problem could have been removed without any fuss or public dredging.

Dr. Eloquence is starting the class: 

To Jeff:

        I see your point of protecting your team of skinners work, they dont deserve to see all their work end up into this kind of "modding", what it bugs me is why are you reviving an old forum thread that in infact at that time the skinner got some minor bad critics? Is like promoting something you dont want to get promoted in first place... (wait.., that didn't have any sense).

Bebi Bulma has here rights to make any critic, i mean, it's a free country., isn't it? And, is not like you will loss any new customers if she start making some heavy critics to your copy rights..., or is it that your market is too weak that it cant handle it? IT IS NOT! i'm sure of that....

To Bebi:

       We ALL know that you enjoy making Jeff get crazy by.., well, by any comment you do to him , but isn't time to find another person to pick on? There are many in here, like Fuzzy Logic (that i would like to see that huge explanation of his name again ), or Jafo or even Noodle., do you remember Noodle?

       You are right about the archaic way TSF license their skins but, why the attack? Leaving a comment without attacks will make you look good, if reacts saying that "it is not of your bussiness" then it is Jeff who will look bad.

 

To Robbie_Boy:

      What an amazing and un etic way to say "boo, you suck go back to hell, no one needs you here"  Jeff was defending (in a wrong way) his team work..., yes you are right, what Jeff did may be look bad, but for who? I mean, i dont care what methods he use to protect his team work., is not of my bussiness at the end., or should it be?

 

Like always, all of you just look like you want to atract some attention from others., by acting strict for what you believe, or by defend your right even if no one has rip them off.., even acting relax and cool...

Now that is sad.....

 

Fuzzy: This is a discussion that needs to be public since too many people have no idea about copyrights. It doesn't matter if the rules says you can show screenshots if a screenshot violates copyrights. I consider it an appropriate topic to discuss. Maybe a few people will learn something about copyrights and respect. And until you have a badge under your name you're in no position to tell me what is and what isn't appropriate. This is a discussion forum where people discuss.

 

Tycus: whatever.

 

I saw this for the first time today. That's why its being "dredged up".

 

Fuzzy is a respected member of the community who's advice and wisdom is valued by most if not all of us here at WC. I'm going to have to agree with him on this point as well.

You were quite satisfied with the response you got from Admin. on your previous complaint and said so publicly,perhaps this should have been handled in a similar fashion. 

So it is but you are not discussing, you are preaching.There IS a difference.

The screenshot stays.

Prosecute the poster if you want.  But do it in the courts, not here.

Use the frikkin screenshot section for screenshots . Problem solved. Posting it in the forums takes it beyond this sites watchful eye.

 

TSF has every right to protect their work in this situation.

The OP does gives the impression that the theme was made by him. He is no ways clear about anything. There is history here that some may not be aware of. While I think TSF is a sellout, I support them 100% here...and btw, almopst everyone is a sellout. Some just have NO honor at all.

Honestly, admin needs to grow a pair and put an end to this stuff.

Rules and Models destroy genius and art.

If people by nature just played by the rules we would not have to create them. Some amazing things are stifled because of rules.

 

 

 

dunno what happened there

 

To forgive is to forget. Pfffftttt

To forgive is to suffer the same consequences over and over. 

Wow! If that is the case I expect the forums to become much more "interesting" in the future.

I am kinda baffled by the whole ordeal, TSF legally is right, but, its just a screenshot, if i did something similar, i would give TSF credit, and say in my screenshot, i liked this skin but customized it to my personal preference, but give everyone credit, and the alterations were for personal preference, but thats just me

I'm getting really tired of this nonsense.  It's a screenshot, and this thread doesn't in any way imply that Elsius is the creator.  There is no point in bringing back a thread from 2008 just to get some attention.  Everyone needs to stop the attacks going on.

If anybody has a problem with something posted on this site in regards to copyright, contact the administrators!

There is nothing wrong here, and as Zubaz said, the screenshot stays.

 

There's nothing wrong with this forum post.  Problem solved.

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno what to say if you all can't see that the OP is vague for a specific reason.

8 years ago I designed , built, and sold a house in an  old fashioned New England neighborhood. When finished a contractor came to our company and asked to purchase the plans so they could duplicate the house because it was so cute. I denied because it would ruin the neighborhood to have the same house next door. Well, he went ahead and had an architect duplicate the house which he buitl 3 all side by side. It ruined the neighborhood.

 

Yes, I take  intellectual property very serious.

If you people are getting sick of this nonsense then...

1. Don't release stolen art as master skins

and

2. Learn about copyrights

 

It doesn't matter if this moron claims he owns the hyperdesk theme, it matters that he could have stolen it in the first place since i have no record of his name buyin it and he altered it without permission while putting it on display. The lack of respect for artist's rights is amazing.

Now since the screenshot is staying there's no reason to take this private. I don't give a s**t if this thread was 10 years old when it pertains to our products and copyrights. Let's get that straight. You guys are in the wrong not me. I'm getting sick of this nonsense.

Well TSF, I don't frequent your site enough to examine the graphics and compare to each and every skin that comes into WinCustomize.  Once again, take it to PM and it will be dealt with.

 

Oh I know plenty about copyrights.  Posting a screenshot doesn't violate a copyright in this case.  If you feel it does, please file a DMCA request and it will be looked into. 

 

First of all, don't start with the personal attacks.  Second, don't accuse someone of stealing in public unless you can verify it.  That would once again.......go to PM.  "Lack of respect" is not a copyright violation.

 

 

I wonder if you guys would feel the same if someone took a Demigod character, changed him to look like total crap and then released screenshots of the game on a gaming site. After "allegedly" pirating the game. Now I imagine most of you wouldn't care because let's face it you really don't have anything invested in the game. Not like Brad does. Brad's devoted his time and money into that game. I see him on Facebook up late hours posting. Much like I do. I doubt he would be cool with someone ruining the look of those awesome characters and making his game look bad. That's pure assumption on my part. It could be it wouldn't bother Brad. But he and I are a lot alike so i'm assuming he would see it in thesame way i do. You guys can diminish this all you want and say its just a theme who cares but it represents 2 months of my life and 5 figures (dollars) to make, so I do care.

 

Now put yourselves in our place. You spend 2 months on a Master Skin and someone allegedly pirates your skin and changes it without your permission, ruins the intent of your art and uploads it here. Ya'll going to be cool with that? I'm just curious.

 

But whatever. I don't have the luxury of time to argue these points all day.

We're talking about a *screenshot* ... not a released skin .. a *screenshot* I sense the fail is strong in this one....