Mock Election to Be Held-Going Reb. or Dem.?

I'm not too sure.....

from JoeUser Forums
Ok, here it is. Finally my first politcal article, and probably one of my very few. I really don't like to get onto the subject of poltics. Mainly because I am not of legal age to vote yet. So I'm sitting here thinking.....Why does it matter to me who gets elected for president? Why? Because they'll be the one who decides the future for our country, our nation. I would like to have a say in the election, but since I am not 18 yet I really can't. Yes, I can go around and say either bad or good things about each canadate....but what's that going to do? Who's going to listen to some 15 year old kid talk about the election, and what they think? Not very many people I know would. This year, I really haven't watched any of the debates between Kerry and Bush. But I do know somethings that have been said and went on so far. I've heard talk and such, I'm not sure if all of it is true or not. Why am I talking about this you may wonder.....

Well this Friday, I believe, we are having a mock election at my highschool. I'm not sure who I want to cast my vote for yet. I'm kina in the middle between Bush and Kerry. Even though my mock vote isn't going to count for anything, I want to choose who I think would be right for the job. I am for Kerry on what he said about abortion during one of the debates. He's Catholic, and so am I. He thinks abortion is wrong, just as I myself think. But I believe he said that a woman should still have a right to have one if she wants. I think that, it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe in some cases of rape. But still....if you think about it, it's not the baby's fault that it got there in the first place, so why should it still have to die? Although it may not be the mother's fault either, but you can't blame anyone except for the raper. So why take it out on the baby and kill it?

I'm also for Kerry because right now, we should really be over in Korea. There are people over there ready to start a nuclear war with us. I think we should stop them. We captured Sadam already. I think things are going to be alright over in Iraq for now. I mean look what is going on over there. Raping, murdering. From both the Iraqs and our own soldiers!! It is so wrong! None of that needs to happen! And Bush doesn't care about Osama one bit! I mean, if the man's still out there, you should kinda worry about him ya know! And Kerry is also willing to track him down.

So I think from looking over things, my vote is probably going to Kerry. So, it may not count, but at least I voiced my opinion!

~carebear~
politics
10,169 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
carebear: First of all, I think it is very brave and admirable of you to post a political article. I also think it's fantastic that you are educating yourself on the issues and thinking about what direction you would like to see our country head. This is well-written article.

However, I am concerned by this:
Raping, murdering. From both the Iraqs and our own soldiers!!


Are you saying that our American soldiers are murderers and rapists? Am I understanding you correctly?
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I've heard on the news that American soldiers have been murdering and raping Iraqs. Just as the Iraqs have been doing to us.

carebear: First of all, I think it is very brave and admirable of you to post a political article. I also think it's fantastic that you are educating yourself on the issues and thinking about what direction you would like to see our country head. This is well-written article.



Thanks Texas!

~carebear~
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I've heard on the news that American soldiers have been murdering and raping Iraqs. Just as the Iraqs have been doing to us.


OK . . . first of all, who is the "us" that the Iraqis are raping? Second of all, please provide me with some verification for your claim that our soldiers are going around murdering and raping. These are lofty charges and soldiers are prosecuted for such things . . . the military is held to a very high standard of conduct, and doesn't just get a "free pass" in a time of war. Are you referring to the abuse that took place in the detention centers?
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Mock Election to Be Held-Going Reb. or Dem.?

By: carebear07
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 on Carebear's World
Message Board: Politics
I am for Kerry on what he said about abortion during one of the debates. He's Catholic, and so am I. He thinks abortion is wrong, just as I myself think. But I believe he said that a woman should still have a right to have one if she wants. I think that, it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe in some cases of rape. But still....if you think about it, it's not the baby's fault that it got there in the first place, so why should it still have to die? Although it may not be the mother's fault either, but you can't blame anyone except for the raper. So why take it out on the baby and kill it?


I hate to burst your bubble but you do realize that Sen Kerry is in full support of Roe v Wade? Which means he's for abortion. Here's part of the court papers:


A pregnant single woman (Roe) brought a class action challenging the constitutionality of the Texas criminal abortion laws, which proscribe procuring or attempting an abortion except on medical advice for the purpose of saving the mother's life. A licensed physician (Hallford), who had two state abortion prosecutions pending against him, was permitted to intervene. A childless married couple (the Does), the wife not being pregnant, separately attacked the laws, basing alleged injury on the future possibilities of contraceptive failure, pregnancy, unpreparedness for parenthood, and impairment of the wife's health. A three-judge District Court, which consolidated the actions, held that Roe and Hallford, and members of their classes, had standing to sue and presented justiciable controversies. Ruling that declaratory, though not injunctive, relief was warranted, the court declared the abortion statutes void as vague and overbroadly infringing those plaintiffs' Ninth and Fourteenth Amendment rights. The court ruled the Does' complaint not justiciable. Appellants directly appealed to this Court on the injunctive rulings, and appellee cross-appealed from the District Court's grant of declaratory relief to Roe and Hallford. Held:


And this is from fact check.org



Kerry's Position on Abortion

Kerry has favored a legal right to abortion over the entire course of his Senate career. He promises that he won't appoint anyone to the Supreme Court who opposes the Roe v. Wade decision:

Kerry Website: John Kerry will only nominate individuals to the federal bench whose records demonstrate a respect for the full range of constitutional rights, including the right to privacy and the right to choose.

Kerry, a Roman Catholic, has also stated recently that personally he believes that life starts at conception. In an interview last July Kerry was quoted in the Dubuque, Iowa Telegraph Herald as saying (as repeated later by the Washington Post ):

Kerry (July, 2004): I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe that life does start at conception.

Kerry's spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said at the time that Kerry's often-stated position is that abortions should be "safe, legal and rare."
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
There's a difference between being for abortion and being pro choice. Being pro choice means that you do not believe in legistating away the right of another to make a choice based on moral and religious beliefs that may be contrary to your own. John Kerry would probably council his daughter against having an abortion in almost all cases based on what he said in the debates, and in his other speeches on the subject. However he doesn't think that his beliefs should be forced down the throat of anyone else on this issue.

I do not believe in abortion, my wife and I got pregnant out of wedlock about 3 years ago. We found out shortly after we broke up and she had decided to move out. When we got the news, we decided to try and work out our differences and never considered abortion. We just recently got married and have a beautiful wonderful daughter. We both are Catholic and value the miracle of life far too much to waste it. However we both believe that the choice will remain wether it is legal or not and understand that there are better ways to affect the decisions of others than to legislate them away. Leading by example is one of them. I can look anyone in the eye that is contemplating an abortion and calmly point out my own situation and my own daughter and tell them no matter what it was worth it, and one of the defining moments of my life. After that it is up to them.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #5 By: Cappy1507 - 10/28/2004 1:49:37 AM
There's a difference between being for abortion and being pro choice. Being pro choice means that you do not believe in legistating away the right of another to make a choice based on moral and religious beliefs that may be contrary to your own. John Kerry would probably council his daughter against having an abortion in almost all cases based on what he said in the debates,


Did you *read* what I posted from "factcheck.org"? He's pro-abortion, not pro-choice!
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Uh...this is why I don't like politics....as illustrated on the most recent South Park, you usually have to vote between a giant douche and a turd sandwich....and that deters people from voting....anyway, I don't really give a crap who wins because I can't do anything about it and whatever happens we'll have to deal with....people under 18 have absolutely no say in politics....so....eh...

~Zoo
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think, even though we don't have a say, it still matters for us. I've never been more involved in politics than this year, and frankly I don't like it. But I'm trying to be so much more informed because I know it will have implications on the way we live no matter our age. Maybe I grew up too fast, missed my childhood or whatnot, but this election will probably change quite a bit for everyone.

I sound like an overly-driven English teacher, but once we turn 18 we all better damn well register to vote and do it. Vote or die.
Reply #9 from PolMach Forums Top
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I've heard on the news that American soldiers have been murdering and raping Iraqs. Just as the Iraqs have been doing to us.


I love it when we lower ourselves to their level.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've heard on the news that American soldiers have been murdering and raping Iraqs. Just as the Iraqs have been doing to us.


WTF? You need to give examples of what you are talking about. What you are claiming is far too broad and unspecific. I can't confirm or refute what you are saying because it is so general and lacks any details or pieces of information that could be looked up. What news station? What Americans are the Iraqis raping? Are the Iraqi populace or insurgents or the ING troops doing the raping of Americans? Which American soldiers? What unit? Who have they raped? Did this occur in a detention center or a dark alley in Baghdad? You can't just claim this stuff, you have to back it up with specific facts and details.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Texas~ Sorry this comp. I'm on won't let me quote things on here. But "us" that I'm refering to are Americans. Iraqs have been murdering and raping Americans for no reason. At least from what I've heard. Like I said I'm not sure if everything is true, but you just have to go on you instincts on who to vote.


and I'm sorry but, jeez, It's my opinion people. you guys don't have to get all jumpy and stuff. I'm just expressing my opinion. I'm sorry if I upset some of you. See, this is why I don't like politics. You can't say anything w/o people getting all jumpy about it.

so yea, sorry if i upset some of you.

~carebear~
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
carebear: I'm sorry if I "took the gloves off" with you . . . I'm being a little harder on you than I should be. You are very new to this, and I do admire you for being brave enough to post something political and for examining world events and forming your own opinion.

*hugs carebear*
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know about the rest (other than TW) but you didn't upset me.
Reply #14 from PolMach Forums Top

Reply #6 By: Citizen drmiler - 10/28/2004 1:55:20 AM

Reply #5 By: Cappy1507 - 10/28/2004 1:49:37 AM
There's a difference between being for abortion and being pro choice. Being pro choice means that you do not believe in legistating away the right of another to make a choice based on moral and religious beliefs that may be contrary to your own. John Kerry would probably council his daughter against having an abortion in almost all cases based on what he said in the debates,


Did you *read* what I posted from "factcheck.org"? He's pro-abortion, not pro-choice!


Yes I did.

Did YOU see the debates. Or read or listen to any other speeches he has made on the subject. You are purposfully distributing misinformation.

No undoing Constitutional rights, including right of choice
KERRY: I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade. The president has never said whether or not he would do that. But we know from the people he's tried to appoint to the court he wants to. I will not.
MODERATOR: Kerry claims that you had never said whether you would like to overturn Roe v. Wade. Would you?

BUSH: What he's asking me is, will I have a litmus test for my judges? And the answer is, no, I will not have a litmus test. I will pick judges who will interpret the Constitution, but I'll have no litmus test.

KERRY: The president didn't answer the question. I'll answer it straight to America. I'm not going to appoint a judge to the Court who's going to undo a constitutional right, whether it's the 1st Amendment, or the 5th Amendment, or some other right that's given under our Constitution. And I believe that the right of choice is a constitutional right. I don't intend to see it undone. Clearly, the president wants to leave in ambivalence or intends to undo it.
Source: Third Bush-Kerry Debate, in Tempe Arizona Oct 13, 2004

Cannot change Roe v. Wade because of my own faith
Q: Some Catholic archbishops said that it would be a sin to vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem-cell research. What is your reaction to that?
A: I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views. But I disagree with them, as do many. I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith. I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. That's why I support that. I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade.
Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004

NOW I WANT YOU TO REPEAT AFTER ME

JOHN KERRY IS PRO CHOICE NOT PRO ABORTION

He says it right there in black and white for all the world to see:

"What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith"

He doesn't say "what may or may not be an article of faith for me", he says what is...

He doesnt say "what may be an article of faith for others: He says "for me"

He is saying that abortion is an question of belief, not a matter for political banter. And that his beliefs are no more important than anyone elses, where as your buddy Bush dodges the question (as usual) and implies that his beliefs are somehow more important than other people's and that they are not capable of making a moral judgement that affect their lives, so he wishes the courts to do it for them.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

NOW I WANT YOU TO REPEAT AFTER ME

JOHN KERRY IS PRO CHOICE NOT PRO ABORTION




NOW I WANT YOU TO REPEAT AFTER ME


JOHN KERRY IS A LYING JERK!
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #16 By: Myrrander - 10/29/2004 8:22:21 PM
Kick ass, carebear. You just go ahead and post what you think, eh?


You tell er myrrander! You just go right ahead and post. Try to overlook us idiots.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
carebear: I'm sorry if I "took the gloves off" with you . . . I'm being a little harder on you than I should be. You are very new to this, and I do admire you for being brave enough to post something political and for examining world events and forming your own opinion.*hugs carebear*


Aww....it's ok Texas. I really wasn't even pointing it towards you. *hugs Texas*

I don't know about the rest (other than TW) but you didn't upset me.


Glad to hear that drmiller!

Cappy~ I know that's what he stated and maybe people just take things in a different way. Kinda like an opinion I guess. I dunno what you'd call it really. I guess I just hear things differently than others hear them, or I take things in a different way. I guess you could call that unique.

Kick ass, carebear. You just go ahead and post what you think, eh?

You tell er myrrander! You just go right ahead and post. Try to overlook us idiots.


Heh, thanks you guys!!!!

~carebear~
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
You do realize that an election really isn't about the challenger, right? It's about the incumbent. Because:

A) A challenger will say anything to get votes, AKA (John Kerry, the man who doesn't just take a stand for one side of an issue, he'll take a stand for every side of the issue)

AND

B) If the challenger really told everyone his plan, he wouldn't get elected.

So, what people are really voting for, (and this is all my opinion, so don't freak out on me,) is wether or not they want the incumbent in the office for another four years.

I did watch the debates, I have read the material, and I've seen the ads. However, I've not seen much in the way of good solid leadership on the way of Kerry. If memory serves, he's only sponsored or co-sponsored 5 bills in the Senate out of the 20 years he's been serving. I think the most important one was about dolphins and tuna nets, or something like that. To a fault, at times, Bush has always done what he has said he was going to do. Even if he makes some mistakes, I'm sure that not one of any of us out here could do a better job with the circumstances. To say that you would be a perfect president would be saying that you were not human.

I personally believe that abortion is murder. If a baby is put on a respirator at a hospital, does it become part of that machine, and does the hospital have the right to end its life, since the hospital owns the machine? And if you believe that women should have the right to chose to have an abortion, when do you consider the "fetus" a real person? However, I do believe that there are some instances that may require an abortion for the survival of the parent.

Harvesting stem cells from unborn children abhorent. The life of a person should not be the means by which we advance medically.

I'm guessing you haven't ever looked at Kerry's track record in the Senate on things that deal with "army" and "war". There are other posts that go into this in detail, so I'm not going to post a whole bunch of facts, but if you think that Kerry want's to "go after" Korea, terrorists, or Osama bin Laden, then I think you might have something coming to you.

But hey, vote your mind. What matters is that everyone votes.

Peace,

Beebes
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh, sorry about the double post, but I felt that I should post the info:

Our school voted

69% Bush
28% Kerry
3% Others (Nader, my physics teacher, Mickey Mouse, etc.)

While on a state level, I believe that our track record for all highschools was

58% Bush
39% Kerry
3% Nader

The second bit of info was from a few friends, so I"m not sure on the acuracy, but I do know for a fact what our school's voting record is.

Peace,

Beebes
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok Alex.....the whole thing about abortion.....I'm so totaly against abortion. I think it is wrong in every way possible. Just because I'm voting for Kerry does not, and I mean does not say that I'm voting because I'm for abortion. I hate it. I even think that a woman shouldn't even have the right to have one. Even if she was raped. I mean, yeah it's not her fault, but it's not the baby's fault it got put there either. It is murder, and I'm fully against it. I thought we had this convo awhile back with Shaun??? I dunno, maybe we didn't.

Anyways....I'm not freaking out on you. lol. Just stating my thing on abortion. I have my reasons. Maybe you don't understand me in the way that im understanding things. Who knows. You voted for who you wanted, and I voted for who I wanted. Like you said, that's all that matters. And trust me I don't like either of them at all. Yeah, i shoulda just put down Mickey Mouse, I was even thinking about putting Barney on there. I just think Kerry is the better choice, that's all. So no I'm not freaking out don't worry.

~carebear~
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
I support voting age being lowered, but even though I support Kerry, I totally disagree with your reasons for supporting Kerry. For one, he supports abortion rights. So do I. Even though I have expressed my discomfort with what abortion is. You are entitled to your religious conviction, but you live in a country with religious freedom, and that should be important to you. There is no definitive answer on when life begins.

I believe that meat eating is wrong. I believe that it is murder. But I do not believe that it should be law. The Government has to govern for people who do not share my religious conviction on this. What is more, abolishing abortion will lead to backyard abortions, not an end to abortions. Millions of women have died from backyard abortions. This horrific death must be avoided.

And although I did not support the War on Iraq in the first place, a complete withdrawal would be a disaster for Iraqis. The Coalition of the Killing has made the mess, and now must be part of working towards cleaning it up.