European ideals succeed.

And it only took a little over 200 years to fail. But wait, we have not failed yet, we simply dropped the ball (thank you Democrats) but last time this happened we made a come back and became tronger than before. The way i see it, this will happen again, but not under Obama. Believe what you want Lad, mate, boy, comrade, amigo, etc. In the end Americans are not Europeans and our values are different than yours. This foolish notion that Europe wins and the US loses is childish since we don't have the same values. If these people like Europe so much, why are they still here?

200 years to fail, not sure hat you mean. The original conservative freemarket ideals you had were what Britain had before the introduction of the welfare state, so you have had British ideals up to now.

  The main difference is that the UK turned to a welfare state after WWII, the rest of europe followed but the USA did not.

  People on the right [like the bloggers trolling my posts] claim that it is ok to leave the poor to rot as yanks get higher incomes by not having a welfare state.

  Well as has been proven this is simply not true as americas wages have fallen well behind countries with strong welfare states and universal health care. Most new democracies follow the European ideal and have a welfare state almost always with a universal health care program.

  I can't think of one new democracy that has followed america and refused to have universal health care.

  As Obama wants universal health care, to tax the rich and give to the poor while keeping a strong economy and making access to higher education more easy then the next president of the USA clearly wanst to become more European as well.

  So yes the Eurpean ideals are the influentional ones today, NOT the tax the poor to benefit the rich, no health care low wage USA model.

  I am sure you right wingers will try to twist or insult your way to refuting my poitns but they still hold I am afraid.

And this right here is why you are the new clueless one on this site.

And you believe it's because the Gov't imposed this on people, not that the people wanted it this way? There's a reason it's called a difference because this is what people wanted.

Hmm, why create an article, leave it open for posting on a site where the majority (notice how it's not everyone) are of Republican or Conservative views and then call them trolls when they comment on your article? Sounds to me like you are not looking to debate but simply to start fights and arguments which is pretty childish to me. Keep in mind my first comment did not insult you in any way (no name calling, no cursing, no death threats) yet your first post it to call me a troll. Great debating skills.

BTW, considering all the charities in this country, all the shelters, all the Gov't help that currently exist, all the opportunities out there, the only ones I can think of that should be in such poor conditions are those who are physically or mentally unable to do so. We may have a lot of poor people, based on standards of not having more than 1 or 2 TVs in the house, but our poor people are in a way some of the richest poor people in the world. Keep in mind, I am one of those poor people so it's kinda stupid to think I don't care about people like me.

You've been disproven several times already on this, it's not my fault you refuse to understand. You have the right to believe what you want. Wow, look at that, an American value shared with you.

Ah, there's a reason the people that founded this country left Europe. Obama can want many things, that does not mean it will work. Maybe you should do some research and realize the Democrats have been fighting for the little guy for decades and have yet to solve any of the problems they claim they will solve.

I doesn't matter dude, this is the US not the EU. Your opinions are just that, opinions. You wanna change things? Make yourself a citizen of the US and vote. Otherwise, all you can do is excercize your right to post your own BS online about a country you don't live in, don't contribute to, are not a citizen of (most likely) and really don't give a dam about. You like Europe so much, keep it and why not convince some of these Obamabots to move over there and try out your "incredible" country. If I don't like a place, I move.

You came to the wrong place to sell crazy, if Obama wins and Americans do get a taste of Europe, I think they'll gag. Keep socialism in Europe if you like, cause once the US opens the package and gets a whiff they see just how much it stinks. It will just serve to wake up the 50 -60% that don't vote.

Hum... there are no "european values". Europe is even less a unified block than America. I think it's funny how people in America are trying to make a America vs Europe dichotomy of values. I guess it appeals to your nation's ego

NO, he is correct.  Europe has a socialism mentality.  Probably brought on by the fact it was born (modern europe) of the old Monarchy where King (or queen) took care of all the serfs.

America was born in rebellion to that model.  There is a definite difference in mindset and outlook.  This is not saying one is better (we can get into that on another blog), just different.

  I live in the EU and this article is about the EU. The article shows how European ideals on running a society have prevailed with new eastern Europeans eager to become part of Europe and the new president of the USA also eager to adopt European ideals.

  We see all new democracies adopting a universal health care and higher tax on the rich than the poor, basically sharing wealth.

  This sharing of wealth has been argued by the old right wing that countries like the USA would have more individual wealth by ignoring their poor, this has been proven to be wrong.

  Freedom, equality, dignity, strong economy and social justice is prevailing against the right wing view of freedom, large poverty, low tax on the rich and low paid poor.

  ps.

  The poor in the USA are the poorest of any developed country. This was shown is minimum wage and homeless numbers. If someone disagrees then provide a link to back up these claims.

 The average wage in the USA is LOWER than the wealthiest countries in Europe even when working more hours per year. Again the AWI has shown this and has NOT been proven wrong. It stands.

  Ignoring facts and making up claims should be left to other anti European blogs, not mine. Either show a link or stay away, thanks.

  Strong economy with social justice. Family time via paided leave, access to higher education to the poor and redistribution of wealth.

  The spread of democracy is also a goal of the EU. The EU model is the current accepted model for democracy world wide. Not the USA model.

  Obama to my knowledge is attempting to copy these EU values and it seems he is winning. McCain is against these values and seems to be losing.

  Your points are mere claims and are not backed up by anything of any merit I am afraid.

Dashing Prince, the author of this article, isn't an American.

  Spend more time reading the article and thinking of a reply than reading somones profile.  Make a point or leave my blog, thank you.

Yeah it's tough having only 3 TV's. a used BMW, and eating a Mc Donald's every day. It make one really want to cry.

If the US becomes European, who is left to liberate us after we all surrender at the first sign of trouble?

Quite a polite response to the site's owner, must be European values.

Funny how you say that about my cokmment while ignoring the creator of this article. Anyways, DrGuy did a good job correcting you.

New President? Kinda Premature there don't you think Lad? Just because our timezones are different due to being on different parts of the world doesn't mean elections over here have already passed. I want to believe you are smarter than that.

I am however curious if Obama is so enthusiastic about European ideals, why is he running here and not there? Or why is he not living there at all. BTW, has Obama ever truly been to Europe? And I don't mean a 2 week city to city outing, I mean living there for long periods of time. He doesn't know crap about Europe so I don't see how he can claim to want something he has never truly experienced. But then it's not like experience is a necesity for Obama to win, only for Palin.

I can garantee you, give every working American 1 million dollars and then tell them you want to redistribute their wealth to those who don't work. How much you wanna bet they will all say in one unified voice "Kiss my ass"?

I guess you haven't figured out that the person you are talking to is the owner of the site. If this kind of stupidity is what European ideals creates than I can see why Obama wants it. It would make it easier to make people believe you wanna help them while never actually doing it.

I disagree. Yes, the US system does seem to be failing (partially), but it's not like Europe can hold up say the French way of things as a shining example either - in France you get great benefits, it's hard to lose your job, there are improved public services, etc. etc., but there is a cost - for example unemployment has been much higher in European countries like France than those adopting a more free market approach like the US or UK. It's also not like these countries are currently doing well either - they're already either in recession or heading for recession, just as with the US. Meanwhile European banks have also fallen foul of the credit crunch, with for example UBS (Swiss) being one of the worst offenders.

Also while you mention the possible movement of the US to more 'European' values (e.g. entertaining the prospect of universal healthcare or similar proposals), Europe has also been moving more towards US values in some areas, by looking to try and improve free market principles such as competition in some places (at least they were talking of such things in the EU over the last few years; no doubt the recent crisis will put such attempts on the back burner or destroy them completely).

Maybe, but it's looking increasingly unlikely that McCain has even a chance of beating Obama, and hence it's not too premature to start considering how things might be with a new president Obama (even if it is a bit presumptious to say he's certain to be the president).

  I would have guessed because Obama is American, you didn't know that?

  To my knowledge Obama is ahead in the polls and he wants to redistribute wealth. It seems that your own country men are not supporting you at the moment.

  It is far ruder to insult a guest, those are Euroepan values.

  Free market values and competition are European, we add fairness to the mix. American values are free market without the fairness. I do not see any EU country getting rid of universal healthcare or lowering the minimum wage.

 Europe has been liberated by the British before we would do it again I am sure.

 However both the UK and France are nuclear powers so the EU is at no risk of invasion.

Iguess you never heard of rhetorical questions have you? British intelligence at work here.

Yea, these are the same people who voted for Bush 2 terms. Great example. Besidesmore often than not the polls have been wrong. I am not one who fallows polls because I refuse to believe that questioning a small percentage of the American population could actually expressthe sentiments of an entire nation, so your assumptions mean nothing to me, the truth will be revealed after the elections are over.

So European values consider insulting guest to be rude but ok for the guest to insult strangers? Glade those values are an ocean away. But you know, I refuse to see Europe as what you have shown here because I will not see it as stupid, ignorant and down right arrogant just because of one of it's citizens. We have some here who either are from Europe or have lived there and don't deserve to be caught up in theinsults because of you.

There is no such thing as fairness when some people get to give more than others while others get to take more. You can take yours and Obama's fairness and shove it. It's one thing for us to lookout for our fellow citizens, but not at gun point.

  Most americans are fortunately not like you. Many would debate openly and without insults. Those hard working joe six pack do not deserve an uneducated oik like you bringing down their good name.

  Most Europeans and modern north americasn agree with me, not the likes of you.

  Nope you made a statement that Obama should run in the UE, and you emant it. Well he can't as he is not from the EU. In other words you got it wrong. I won't hold one americans stupidity against a whole nation.

  Fairness is helping the poor, the less fortunate. Homeless people often are the result of abuse. Just becauser a good for nothing like you has no compassion does not eman all humans have the same views.

  Again I will not hold one north american oiks views against them all.

Englands markets at the time of the U.S revolution was a command market.  We were force to sell them our raw goods and were commanded not to make industries of our own. While the English were forced to sell to the US at a lower prices they could get with other trade partners.  Our Revolution freed both markets. we got to sell our raw goods AND make new industries while the english got to sell their goods for a better mark up. 

DashingPrince, I believe you don't understand the EU too well.

The EU isn't as unified as you say it is.  There are multiple groups within the EU vying for power; this idea of "European" values is something that the EU bureaucrats subscribe to, but unfortunately normal Europeans don't.  Firstly, the new EU Lisbon Treaty has only been passed in many states because the national governments refused to bring it to a referendum, primarily because they all know it would fail terribly if they did so.  You, yourself should understand this as a Brit, because Gordon Brown refused to ever bring that to a referendum despite a campaign promise to do so.  Apparently, the EU and its citizens disagree on what these 'European' values should actually be.  Heck even the freakin Irish voted it down!  And they have been getting EU subsidies for years!  As for general EU disunity, you Brits regularly oppose the EU on many issues: defense, spending, agriculture subsidies, fishing rights, SHENGEN, welfare policies, and Russia, just to name a few.  Heck you guys haven't even adopted the Euro yet.  Meanwhile, Scandinavian countries have their own disagreements with France and Germany, and the Mediterrean states are also seeking their own separate bloc now, lead by French President Sarkozy.  Even more striking, many of these Eastern European countries coming into the EU are actually adopting more American-type models.  I know this because I lived in one of these countries for six months, Estonia.  It has a flat tax rate of 18% (significantly lower than the US's tax rate and in fact more "American" then America itself).  This has promoted significant growth in the country until recently, primarily due to the US's own housing bubble which impacted the Baltics quite severely. 

So to say that somehow Europe is winning, is incredibly incredibly simplistic.  Many more things are going on here.  I will say that the EU is becoming a 'normative' power.  That is to say they are affecting other countries and encouraging them to adopt EU-like policies.  Turkey is a prime example of this.  Nonetheless, to say that "european" values are winning is a very simplistic and naive interpretation of what is actually happening within the EU and throughout the world.

That's got everything to do with fairness. Some people see it as only fair that the government is there to lend a helping hand to people when times are hard, providing that person is doing everything they can to try and get out of the hole. Others see it as only fair that people are taxed based on their ability to pay, and you don't tax the poor into the ground to pay for tax breaks on the rich. Some people might think it unfair that a company will look to exploit some workers by paying them below the market wage for their services, and that a minimum wage should be imposed. The biggest reason for the welfare state in any country is fairness.

Well it's fair to say that there's a clear difference in values between Europeans and the US based on the nature of the welfare state in the two areas - European countries (at least western european ones) are more likely to have higher benefits, higher state provision of services, greater worker rights etc. compared with the US, which suggests a difference in values. So to say that by itself doesn't necessarily suggest a lack of understanding wrt the EU IMO. However I would agree with you that saying european values are winning is being simplistic (especially since as you rightly pointed out there are such massive differences between the countries in the EU).

LOL. pot meet kettle. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Don't insult people first only to complain about being insulted. I may not be a Hardvard graduate, but I am hardly uneducated.

Yea, and those North Americans you speak of are partly (if not mostly) uneducated poor people. You know, the 95% that Obama plans to help. Great choice.

Opinions, aren't they great? Believe what you want, I know what I "meant", not "emant". Your opinions have no power over mine so it doesn't matter what you think. You must think I am that stupid not to know that Obama is not Eutopean and therefor can not run there. The fact that you actually believed such a ludicris things shows just how idiotic you really are. Grow up already.

There is plenty of help for the poor and the homeless in this country. Plenty of charities, plenty of Gov't programs (most which are useless) and plenty of opportunity to succeed. And please stop acting as if there are no poor and homeless in Europe.

Good for nothing? Wow, this is British manners at its finest. Talk about childsih attitudes online. Grow up and debate like a man.

And that's my point. The US provides people with opportunities to succeed and live at the same time but some simply choose to live and not succeed. It's not like the US ignores the poor, that is ridiculous to say considering all the Gov't programs that exist. But if they continue to be poor and homeless, how are welfare programs actually working? So the next step is to give them everything paid for by those who can afford it?

And here in lies the truth. I said it once and I'll say it again, give 50% of the poor and homeless American $1 million dollars (Tax free) and then tell them you want to distribute the wealth and we will see just how much they believe in Obama's ideals once they don't benefit from them.

You're an idiot. He was defending you by pointing out that you aren't an American.

  Charles you insulted me first, pot kettle yes, trolling certainly. As he made no further points just insults then I won't reply to him any further.

----------------

Taara the EU has many views and different ways of doing the same values. You are supporting me not refuting me.

  I will explain again the values...  EU..Strong economy and social justice. USA ...strong economy with no need for social justice.

  You have to argue that not having social welfare ie universal health care is preading. it is not spreading I am afraid. All other points you made taara were in agreement with mine, I am guessing you were aware of this.

  ----

  Not sure why you are talking about the revolutionary war. The freemarket and its values were invenetd by the UK, and with help from the Netherlands. You adopted them like all countries.

  After WWII the UK then added social welfare as being a basic responsibility of government, the USA has yet to adopt this, most other democracies in the developed world have.

  This is my point support it or argue against it, thanks.

  ----

LoL. America freed the market by its revolution... tossing off the yolk of both american and English business men.  Our founding fathers created a more free market place then what came before. 

I don't have to argue the way you command mate.