Grow Up America

the brass tacks

Here we are at the brink of another important presidential election.  We are at war, our economy is in a shambles and many of us our holding on by a shoe string and true to our nature as Americans, we are still all trying to "have it our way".

America, a country characterized by liberty and more human rights than any other nation EVER on the the face of this earth is struggling and I think it may be about time for us to "grow up".  I say this as a mother of six, with 3 teenage daughters at home, all of which are trying to figure out what it means to be an adult.  It is not a magic number, 18 or 21, it is the ability to know what is right and to do it, two very difficult tasks.

First, knowing what is right.  How does one know these days when our convensional wisdom is completely up for grabs.  I am not touting some particular moral code, I'm saying simply that it is impossible to maintain a family, never mind a nation if we are not willing to all lay down a few things for the greater good.  We can't even agree on what the "greater good" is.  Our governmental process has become so bogged down by special interest groups that no matter who gets into the White House in November it will be difficult to employ any change and no matter how you look at it, things must change.

Second, the abilitiy to do it.  Sounds simple right?  How many of us will govern ourselves better for the sake of our country when we haven't for our immediate communities, our families or our God.  Seriously. who will use less, spend less, do less, have less, give more, stand up and take it like a grown up person without whining,  follow through with consistancy, be honest.  This "selfless" kind of living requires choices that don't make self interest the hub of all activity and are foreign to this rights inebriated land. 

Consider the following as an outline for adult behavior.  This is what we are using with our kids.  It did not originate with us, they got it at their public school.

 

Individual Responsibility:  fulfilling one's responsibilities to family, friends, and others in one's community and nation.

Self discipline/self governance:  obeying reaonable rules and laws voluntarily and not requiring others to force one to do so.

Civility:  treating other people with respect regardless of whether or not one likes them or agrees with their viewpoints, being willing to listen to other points of view, not being insulting when argueing with others.

Respect for the Rights of other Individuals:  respect for the right other other people to hold and express their own opinions, respect for their right to a voice in thier government.

Honesty:  telling the truth

Respect for Law:  willingness to abide by laws, even though one may not be in complet agreement with every law.

Open Mindedness:  willingnesss to consider other points of view

Critical Mindedness:  the inclination to question the truth of various positions, inclding one's own

Negotiation and Compromise:  willingness to try to come to agreement with those with whom one may differ, when it is reasonable and morally justifiable.

Persistence:  willingness to attept agains and again to accomplish a worthwhile goal

Civic Mindiness:  concern for the well-being of one's community and nation.

 

These are basic concepts that provide the structure necessary for our community to flourish if EVERYONE participates.  They are unbiased and apply no matter what one believes.  The only way that we can continue to exist is together as we can afford no islands in these United States if we want to heal as a nation.

 

Joan of Arc

 

20,395 views 23 replies
Reply #1 Top

It has always been my belief that regardless how much everyone wants to blame Bush, McCain, Obama, Congress, the Senate, Democrats or Republicans for the messes we are in today and for the past 10 or 20 years for that matter, in the end, according to the Constitution, it is the people who have the power to fix these issues by appointing people who will actually get the job done and not people who will simply pander to their personal interest. So one could say we are as much, if not more, to blame for what has happened to our country.

Reply #2 Top

a hearty "amen" to that

joa

Reply #3 Top

It would be so nice if any of those principles were possible.  Unfortunately our political system has boiled itself down to a simple "us vs. them" mentality.  Every issue is regarded as black or white no matter how many shades of gray may fall in between.  As a result almost every one of your principles are negated.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't attempt to get back to those principles, it's what our founding fathers would have wanted, but in the current political environment it just isn't going to happen, neither of the two major parties would want it, which is why I am a big advocate for voting against incumbents and voting for third party candidates whenever given the chance.  We can't fix the system overnight, but sending a message to all the players that we're pissed off would be a good start.

Reply #4 Top

interesting thoughts but somewhat missing the point.  in a system that is "for the people" and "by the people" change needs to start not at the "top" in government but at home and next door.....with the people.  that would be you and me

joa

 

 

 

Reply #5 Top

but in the current political environment it just isn't going to happen, neither of the two major parties would want it
End of quote

And here in lies the problem. The Constitution give us, the people, the ability to chose who to represent us when it comes to the Gov't. We get to pick who is President, the Senators and the Congressmans. But people have forgotten this, or never learned it. Instead, as proof by our choices for President this election year, we believe we forced to chose from the candidates offered to us by the 2 major parties. And since politics seems to be a very boring subject to the average American (otherwise they would be wiser to the candidates), they take advantage of this ignorance to BSus into voting for them.

We can't fix the system overnight, but sending a message to all the players that we're pissed off would be a good start.
End of quote

The only issue I have is that most of those voting for Obama seem to think this is what they are doing by electing Obama when in reality they are simply rewarding them for their failures, but then voting for McCain would be almost the same.

Reply #6 Top

in a system that is "for the people" and "by the people" change needs to start not at the "top" in government but at home and next door.....with the people. that would be you and me
End of quote

This is all true, but largely forgotten.  In some places, people still look to neighbors for help in a pinch (particually the mid-west), but all too often, they look to the federal government first.  Once the majority starts doing that, we are lost, and might as well just be another kingdom under some benevolent ruler.

Reply #7 Top

The only issue I have is that most of those voting for Obama seem to think this is what they are doing by electing Obama when in reality they are simply rewarding them for their failures, but then voting for McCain would be almost the same.
End of quote

 

the problem i see with this liine of thinking is it's a bit in the biting off your nose to spite your face catagory.

whoever is elected, their failures will be reaped by us.  voting "against", in other words choosing a candidate because I want to send a message that I am pissed at the other party seems short sighted.  Unfortunatly, with the current candidates, there are few who seem convinced there is anything to vote for.

Reply #8 Top

change needs to start not at the "top" in government but at home and next door.....with the people. that would be you and me
End of quote

In a perfect world that is true.  However in our current environment the system doesn't allow for that.  Sure you may be able to change your household to be that way but the system has too much influence over the masses and getting everyone on board is going to be nearly impossible.  I'm not saying that it isn't worth a try, at this point anything is worth a shot, but we have entire families being torn apart by politics.  My neighbors fight multiple times a week because the husband supports Obama and the wife supports McCain.  This country is almost too divided top be saved at this point.

But people have forgotten this, or never learned it. Instead, as proof by our choices for President this election year, we believe we forced to chose from the candidates offered to us by the 2 major parties. And since politics seems to be a very boring subject to the average American (otherwise they would be wiser to the candidates), they take advantage of this ignorance to BSus into voting for them.
End of quote

How right you are.  The myth of the wasted vote is a rather pervasive myth in our culture, it is one of the many myths that we need to overcome to get any kind of change to happen. 

The only issue I have is that most of those voting for Obama seem to think this is what they are doing by electing Obama when in reality they are simply rewarding them for their failures, but then voting for McCain would be almost the same.
End of quote

What most people fail to remember is that almost all candidates when they are first running for office run on a campaign of change.  Even the current Bush ran on a campaign of "Change" back in 2000 just look up his acceptance speech at the republican national convention in 2000.  The only way that I can see to change things in our government is to get rid of the two major parties as quickly as possible.  I'm not saying that they shouldn't have a place in our government but we need to have more than two voices heard in our government.

Reply #9 Top

at the other party
End of quote

But see this is my point, there aren't just two parties.  It's not a matter of being pissed at "the other party" at least for me it's a matter of being annoyed with the corruption of the virtual two party system.

Reply #10 Top

This country is almost too divided top be saved at this point.
End of quote
[quote quoting="article"]

If this is true, we are in trouble.  Who are we if we are not the UNITED States of America.  This is the crux of the issue.  Once again, I suggest that unity has to start in families.

My neighbors fight multiple times a week
End of quote

perhaps a luxery we can no longer afford

we are lost, and might as well just be another kingdom under some benevolent ruler.
End of quote

now there's an idea, how many benevolent ruler's do You know

joa

 

Reply #11 Top

I suggest that unity has to start in families.
End of quote

To which I say good luck.  Lead by example and hope for the best.

how many benevolent ruler's do You know
End of quote

As long as you happen to agree with them all rulers are benevolent.  Of course if you happen to differ in opinion then it's a whole different story.

Reply #12 Top

As long as you happen to agree with them all rulers are benevolent.
End of quote

Very true!  I was thinking of myself as the benevolent ruler. ;)

Reply #13 Top

Very true! I was thinking of myself as the benevolent ruler.
End of quote

There's a reason they are called "rulers". ;) O:)

 

Reply #14 Top

How right you are. The myth of the wasted vote is a rather pervasive myth in our culture, it is one of the many myths that we need to overcome to get any kind of change to happen.
End of quote

Obama is right about 1 thing, we do need change. But in my opinion, it's not the kind he is offering, but then McCain does not exactly offer much of an alternative either. This is like me looking for a super juicy, all beef,  1/4 lb, sirloin burger with cheddar cheese, grilled onions lettuce, tomato and pickles on a nice, round, soft yet solid sesame seed bun with some seasoned fries and a nice cold drink (Chilli's anyone?), yet my only options are a Whopper with cheese combo or a Big Mac combo or a third party burger from the local lunch wagon (AKA Roach Coach).

Reply #15 Top

But in my opinion, it's not the kind he is offering, but then McCain does not exactly offer much of an alternative either
End of quote

I'm not sure that any one person could offer what is needed for change at the magnitude it is needed. 

 

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Dr, reply 12
As long as you happen to agree with them all rulers are benevolent.Very true!  I was thinking of myself as the benevolent ruler.
End of Dr's quote

 

uh oh--now we're in trouble

joa

Reply #17 Top

This is interesting (and may now change) I've noticed that only people I would consider to be conservative (I may be making an incorrect assumption here, but I'll go with it) have commented on your article Joan. Why no liberal comments either yay or nay? Just a curious observation on a piece that is obviously non-partisan. IMO I guess quiet can speak volumes.

Reply #18 Top

Quoting EL-DUDERINO, reply 3
It would be so nice if any of those principles were possible.  Unfortunately our political system has boiled itself down to a simple "us vs. them" mentality. 

I'm not saying that we shouldn't attempt to get back to those principles, it's what our founding fathers would have wanted, but in the current political environment it just isn't going to happen, neither of the two major parties would want it, which is why I am a big advocate for voting against incumbents and voting for third party candidates whenever given the chance.

End of EL-DUDERINO's quote

Boiled down? When was it ever not us versus them?  It has been that way since the founding of the country.  Look at things like the first Supreme Court case, or even just the politics to sign the Declaration of Independence.  We haven changed in the big picture mate, just in what we argue about.

Reply #19 Top

Why no liberal comments either yay or nay?
End of quote

an excellant Q Nitro, I don't know.  i am sure that there are folks on both sides of the isle that share these sentiments or for whom they raise conserns.  it would be nice to hear from all even if they just plain disagree.

 

joa

Reply #20 Top

[quote]It has been that way since the founding of the country. Look at things like the first Supreme Court case, or even just the politics to sign the Declaration of Independence. We haven changed in the big picture mate, just in what we argue about.[/quote

I find this interesting because sometimes, when I hear about the foundations of America, I get the idea that everyone was in total agreement about everything.  Historically, I find this to be inaccurate. Regardless of the our founding, we have come a long way (baby)

joa

 

Reply #21 Top

Boiled down? When was it ever not us versus them? It has been that way since the founding of the country. Look at things like the first Supreme Court case, or even just the politics to sign the Declaration of Independence. We haven changed in the big picture mate, just in what we argue about.
End of quote

The "us vs. them" in the declaration of independence was this country vs. England.  The problem today is that our country is extremely divided and every single issue is immediately boiled down to some sort of black or white issue.  Examples:
1) You are either for the war in Iraq and want to stay until someone determines that we have "won" or you want to concede defeat and hand the country over to terrorists.
2) You are either for the sanctitiy of life or you are an evil baby killer.

I'm not saying that everyone in the country feels this way but it seems that more and more every single issue gets turned into this rather than seeing all of the areas of gray in between.  I will agree that isn't necessarily anything new, it just seems that the pervasiveness of this "us vs. them" mentality seems to be at an all time high.

Reply #22 Top

like I said, Have it Your Way America-

joa

Reply #23 Top

like I said, Have it Your Way America-

joa