Why McCain deserves to lose

from JoeUser Forums

I've said before that there's no circumstance I would vote for McCain. But watching how he has dealt with this financial crisis reminds me why I would never support him. He's no maverick. There's no straight talk. He's just a politician with a marketing slogan who doesn't really know why he wants to be President.  He's Bob Dole II and he's going to lose like him.

Obama, by contrast, deserves to win.  I don't agree with Obama on any major issues. But he knows why he wants to be President.  Obama thinks the country, as it is today, is fundamentally flawed and that him and his Democratic congress will start to address those flaws.

I think Obama is naive and foolish but I have to give credit to someone who truly believes in his cause.

McCain, on the other hand, has no cause other than to be President.

Let me give you a few examples:

#1 The credit crisis

McCain takes the same view as Obama. Greedy wallstreet types. Bullshit.  The vast majority of Americans are culpable here.  If McCain were the straight talker he says he is, he would say into the camera that he has met the enemy and the enemy is us.  How many people do you personally know that have significant credit card debt? How many people do you know have refinanced their homes in the last few years and now owe more on their homes than their homes are worth? I bet the answer is: LOTS.

It's easy to blame bankers or wallstreet types for this crisis.  But they're less culpable than the American people are.  Real leadership would be to go up and say something like "We caused this together and if we want to solve it in the long term we need to quit blaming others and start living within our means."

I support the bail out. A lot of conservatives don't but I disagree with me.  A lot of conservatives don't necessarily realize that most of that bad paper ultimately leads to some individual's abandoned asset be it a house, a car, or some other big ticket item.  I recently bought 10 acres of choice property at half the price it went for 5 years ago.  Lots of banks are holding the bag on potentially trillions of dollars in fixed assets if individual Americans default on their loans. 

But sure, let's blame the banks and the financial institutions. It's a lot easier to blame them than the dead beat cousin or uncle we know who bought a $200k house with zero down, interest only ARM even though he gets fired from jobs every few months because "his boss was an asshole".

But let's be real, individual Americans caused this crisis. I'm more than happy to blame the Democrats who put pressure on financial institutions to get the poor into homes. But at the end of the day, it's we, the people who brought this on ourselves.

It's not greed and corruption on wallstreet that caused this mess. It's greed and corruption of millions of Americans who decided they wanted "stuff" they knew, deep down, they couldn't afford and then blame the banks and financial institutions for not being able to figure out the actual value of these assets now.

Where's McCain's straight talk?

#2 Valuing being buddies with his Senate colleagues more than serving the American people

McCain values experience over ideas. If one of his senate colleagues disagrees with him, he'll chalk it up to a "difference of opinion". Only on foreign policy is McCain willing to talk about what's dangerous.

You know what was really dangerous, McCain? Shoving a naive "campaign finance law" down our throats that restricts the ability of Americans to voice their opinions during an election. 

When it comes to affecting our freedoms, in a real world, practical, every day sense, domestic policy is more important than foreign policy and McCain has no real understanding or passion for it.

Obama has a passion for domestic policy. He believes in equality of results. He sees the gap between rich and poor and thinks the government should do something about it.  I think he's disastrously wrong but McCain will do little other than have a polite disagreement with Obama and Biden over basic issues that affect our basic freedoms.

McCain has plenty of passion about Obama talking about Pakistan but very little when it comes to Obama's vision of having the government take over our health care needs or Obama deciding how much people "deserve" to make or Obama's beliefs on how we should live, what languages we speak, and what cars we should drive.

If McCain deserved to win, he would be passionately defending the American people against what Obama really is.  There are millions of Americans who share Obama's vision for America and Obama is a fantastic advocate for them.  McCain is a terrible advocate for the millions of Americans who disagree with Obama's vision and deep down, we're not even sure if McCain even has a vision of what the American ideal is.

Obama would rather Americans have a poorer standard of living overall than to have such a gulf between the rich, the middle class, and the poor.  And there are lots of people who agree with him. But there are millions of undecided voters who don't realize what path Obama would take us towards.

A simple, passionate speech entitled "The government is not your baby daddy" by McCain could go a long way.  But no straight talk from McCain.

No, McCain will fixate on some comment Obama made about Pakistan rather than the substantial policy issues that Obama favors that would be ruinous to the American spirit.

#3 Nitpicking attack ads instead of substance

McCain's ads are almost all negative. I don't have a problem with that in principle but they're almost all petty and nitpicky.  If his ads were explaining the consequences of an Obama presidency that would be one thing.

McCain's ads should focus on a couple of topics and pound on them:

#1 LOWER THE DEBT. Explain how our borrowing is undermining our way of life and sapping our strength. Explain that yes, it's going to require freezing spending but as Americans, we can do it.

#2 ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. Explain how we're funding our adversaries around the world with our addiction to oil. Explain the plan to drill for more oil domestically, build nuclear plants and push for more clean coal tech while at the same time pushing hard for plug-in Hybrids and other types of vehicles that use energy that is cleaner and home produced.

#3 WRAP UP THINGS IN IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN. Explain how we are going to being drawing down troops in Iraq now that the situation is stabilizing and how we're going to continue to disrupt Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

That's it.  He's talked about these things a little bit but these are the 3 things he should just beat home over and over. They're all winning strategies and if he just pounded on those 3 things. 

Ads about "cleaning up Washington" are stupid and cliche.  We've heard these vague promises before.  Be specific.

Of course, McCain won't and that's why he deserves to lose.

23,174 views 64 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

Obama, by contrast, deserves to win. I don't agree with Obama on any major issues. But he knows why he wants to be President. Obama thinks the country, as it is today, is fundamentally flawed and that him and his Democratic congress will start to address those flaws.

I think Obama is naive and foolish but I have to give credit to someone who truly believes in his cause.

McCain, on the other hand, has no cause other than to be President.

Let me give you a few examples:
End of quote
I totally disagree with this premise.  I think McCain cares about our country and really wants to help turn things around.  I believe Obama simply wants to be famous as President and the slime balls that orchestrate his campaign want to CHANGE America into a socialistic society.  They want to decide who needs what and take from those who they decide don't NEED it and give it to those they decide do.

There may be a lot of Americans that deserve Obama as President but I deserve better!

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

If McCain deserved to win, he would be passionately defending the American people against what Obama really is.
End of quote
Now this I totally agree with.  McCain needs to take the gloves off and get angry if he's going to win.  He keeps saying he'd rather lose the race and put our country first.  Well if he really means that, he needs to fight.  He needs to put our country first and not let it be handed over to a party that wants to CHANGE Everything about it not just the things that aren't working.

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Don't be so fast to count out John McCain. And I would imagine that you would take the most interest in voting for McCain since you are at the top of Hussein's taxpaying hit list. It will trickle down to everyone else, but it will start with you, so you had better break out your pom poms and start cheering for McCain.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

I actually agree with both of you. I believe McCain does care, but he lacks the passion that Obama has to convince the people he does. In a time where things like American Idol, So you think you can dance, Top Model and Dancing with the Stars are what most people like watching, being a star is what people like now a days and Obama has been portrayed as nothing less than a RockStar, with a hint of Godlyness.

But, while McCain has not proven himself to be the right candidate for the job, I hate to think that Obama would be the only alternative, considering everything you explained here. So while he may deserve to lose, this is one time I hope crime does pay. Because being this passionless for the Position of President of the US by the part of McCain could be almost criminal.

So can I ask what you plan on doing? Will you refuse to vote or vote for the alternatives like Nader? Will you vote for Obama because, like you once said before, you would rather let the Democrats be fully responsible for the disaster their policies will create rather a Republican with similar policies?

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

I agree with the woman!  :moon:

I think McCain does care about this country and he's already proven it thru the years of service he's put in.  He deserves this next position much more than Obama does. 

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

I've said before that there's no circumstance I would vote for McCain. But watching how he has dealt with this financial crisis reminds me why I would never support him. He's no maverick. There's no straight talk. He's just a politician with a marketing slogan who doesn't really know why he wants to be President. He's Bob Dole II and he's going to lose like him.
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Wow, I can't believe I'm reading this! Then again, though not as compelling, you more or less said the same when Bush was running for a second term. 8C

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Anthony, reply 3


Don't be so fast to count out John McCain. And I would imagine that you would take the most interest in voting for McCain since you are at the top of Hussein's taxpaying hit list. It will trickle down to everyone else, but it will start with you, so you had better break out your pom poms and start cheering for McCain.

End of Anthony's quote

I am hoping McCain wins. I would never vote for Obama.

But you're wrong about the taxes. My taxes go up, I pass them on through higher prices.

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting CharlesCS, reply 4


So can I ask what you plan on doing? Will you refuse to vote or vote for the alternatives like Nader? Will you vote for Obama because, like you once said before, you would rather let the Democrats be fully responsible for the disaster their policies will create rather a Republican with similar policies?

End of CharlesCS's quote

I'll be voting for a third party right of center candidate so that at least when they comb through the election they can see a vote that would normally have gone for McCain.

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting stevendedalus, reply 6


 Then again, though not as compelling, you more or less said the same when Bush was running for a second term.

End of stevendedalus's quote

I was not an enthusiastic Bush supporter to be sure but Bush wasn't the one who pushed for campaign finance reform and Bush lowered taxes (McCain voted against the Bush tax cut).

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

I don't feel that way about McCain.  I did get that impression from Palin though during the VP debate.  Way way too superficial and trying to get in tune with 'joe six-pack' during the debate imo.

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Way way too superficial and trying to get in tune with 'joe six-pack' during the debate imo.
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Thisissomething I have see a couple of times and still don't understand. Whydoes it bother people that she was trying to relate to us joe/jane regular people? Let's be realistic here, we don't normally see politicians as average joes like us and we always complain about it, now that she is somewhat one of us and wants to show it, people complain? I just don't get it. I guess people like to be tricked, lied to and made felt inferior.

 

 

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Neither of them deserve to win because they both voted for (or renewed, with greater, more sweeping power) the PATRIOT Act and both of them voted for FISA.

That's reason enough to not vote for ANY candidate.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

wants to show it, people complain?
End of quote

It's one thing to 'act like a normal joe', it's another thing all together to be condescending about it - which is exactly the feel I got from her 'folksy' gosh-darns and doggone-its.

Just remember - people liked Bush in 2000 becuase he 'seemed like the kind of guy you'd want to have a beer with'.  And just look how great THAT'S turned out.

Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting CharlesCS, reply 11


Way way too superficial and trying to get in tune with 'joe six-pack' during the debate imo.
Thisissomething I have see a couple of times and still don't understand. Whydoes it bother people that she was trying to relate to us joe/jane regular people? Let's be realistic here, we don't normally see politicians as average joes like us and we always complain about it, now that she is somewhat one of us and wants to show it, people complain? I just don't get it. I guess people like to be tricked, lied to and made felt inferior.
 
 

End of CharlesCS's quote

For me, I don't need to see politicians as my buddy.  I want to see what their stances on issues are. 

I don't see how Palin ramming home 'affectionate' names for the American public means she's not lying or tricking people any more or less than the average politician.  But I guess I'm not as easily tricked or inferior as some other people (to use your words).

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Way way too superficial and trying to get in tune with 'joe six-pack' during the debate imo.
Thisissomething I have see a couple of times and still don't understand. Whydoes it bother people that she was trying to relate to us joe/jane regular people? Let's be realistic here, we don't normally see politicians as average joes like us and we always complain about it, now that she is somewhat one of us and wants to show it, people complain? I just don't get it. I guess people like to be tricked, lied to and made felt inferior.
End of quote

People have become so jaded about politicians, they are no longer reliable judges about when a politician is being sincere or not.

Palin aside, if there was a politician that truly was a 'joe-sixpack' or 'hockey-mom', you would still see the same types of responses and judgements. In short, painting them all with the same broad brush because of their occupation.

In a way, we (the public) are all becoming bigots as far as politicians are concerned.

Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top

It's one thing to 'act like a normal joe', it's another thing all together to be condescending about it - which is exactly the feel I got from her 'folksy' gosh-darns and doggone-its.
End of quote

To each his own, that doesn't mean she's bad for it. I just don't get why when someone makes and effort to do something right, they always get shot down by the negative people.

Just remember - people liked Bush in 2000 becuase he 'seemed like the kind of guy you'd want to have a beer with'. And just look how great THAT'S turned out.
End of quote

If I was to judge people by the similar actions of others, I would have to say all Muslims are terrorist, all French are cowards, all white people are racist and all mexicans are illegals.

Also don't forget, Bush may have been portrayed as a guy you would have a beer with, but when did you ever actually see him do it? On the other hand, Palin is a soccermom (or a hockeymom), she does mingle with us common people and she now understands what it's like to be a mother of a handi-capped child, a teen pregnant daughter and a son in Iraq (or Afgahnistan). Bill was seen as just one of us because he cheated on his wife, something not necessaruly acceptable in his position.

I like a candidate who can relate to us, not someone who thinks he/she is above us. Every person in our Gov't is just another person who was born like everyone else, pooped, drank milk, threw a rock or 2 and ate in places like McDonalds, Burger King, Denny's, IHOP, etc.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

For me, I don't need to see politicians as my buddy. I want to see what their stances on issues are.
End of quote

And how can you expect a politician to do what is in your best interest when they don't even know what you go thru? Many people he cry about the concept of rich people not caring about the poor because they don't know what it's like to be poor. You tell me how does a politician relate to your needs when this is the mentality many people have about them, who BTW are rich people. Unless you can show me they are not, last I checked Obama was worth millions and has always lived a pretty decent life.

I don't see how Palin ramming home 'affectionate' names for the American public means she's not lying or tricking people any more or less than the average politician. But I guess I'm not as easily tricked or inferior as some other people (to use your words).
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I do, it means she is talking to us. And here I thought people like Obama keep saying that people like McCain are not in tune with people today because he could not email. Yet when someone like Palins tries to relate to people by using common words used in the streets, she gets accused as being a faker. So how more hypocritical can people get when you say you want ketsup in your burger than you complain when you get it? BTW, I never said anyone was inferior, I said they like feeling that way. 2 different things, lets get that straight.

All I see is a lot of complaining about nothing but when real issues are brought up such as Bidens multiple lies in the debate, and Obama's background friends (Rev Wright, Farrakhan, Bill Ayers), everyone either ignores it, chants the change theme or say it's all a lie. And Palin trying to be cool is all you guys have to complain about? :rofl:

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

People have become so jaded about politicians, they are no longer reliable judges about when a politician is being sincere or not. Palin aside, if there was a politician that truly was a 'joe-sixpack' or 'hockey-mom', you would still see the same types of responses and judgements. In short, painting them all with the same broad brush because of their occupation. In a way, we (the public) are all becoming bigots as far as politicians are concerned.
End of quote

That is true, which is kinda ironic considering so many believe Obama is really for change. Some how he is different, yet everyone else is a politician no matter how many joe sixpack or soccermom words they use. But it's obvious why anyways.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

I completely agree with you on the credit crisis thing and on the McCain/Obama deal as well. Unusual, huh?

I can see why people do criticise banks for the mortgage crisis - it's unethical and extremely poor business to give out loans to people who clearly can't afford them - but at some point people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. They have to actually do what the fine print suggests and make sure they get the right financial advice if they're too brainless to work out repayments against their income.

On the Obama/McCain front, I probably wouldn't vote in the presidential elections if I was an American. Obama is passionate, sure, and that's essential in any elected official, but I have some reservations about his policies, particularly his views on US foreign policy (pretty much more of the same realpolitik we've all become accustomed to).  And McCain has proven through his advertising that he's a loathsome political operator who's not against abusing human weaknesses of memory and thought association to slander his opponents. Add to that the 'more of the same' foreign policy initiatives of his and he doesn't come out too well either.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is a viable third party right wing candidate. Doesn't it usually end up being Fatherland-worshipping kooks, rabid greens and borderline psychotics of all persuasions who become third party candidates?

Reply #20 from PolMach Forums Top

In short, painting them all with the same broad brush because of their occupation.

In a way, we (the public) are all becoming bigots as far as politicians are concerned.
End of quote

Honestly, there shouldn't even be such a thing as politics as an occupation. Serving in the government should be a civil duty and a supplement to a real job, not a career.

I once, jokingly, proposed that the current legislative model should be scrapped and we should just randomly draft people for six-month terms; once you've served, you never serve again. But the more crap the pols shovel on us, the more it seems like an actual good idea.

I do still think that all offices should come with a one-term limit, period, though. Some might argue that the occasional truly good person would get lost, but that's little excuse to foist the usual power/money hungry pols on us the rest of the time. But given that they can just keep giving out taxpayer money to get themselves gifts, donations, and pay raises now, that's never going to happen.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

With the left, there is no winning.  Remember when Bush41 famously went through a grocery checkout lane during a campaign photo op & went goo-ga over the barcode scanner?  They went nuts - 'Out of touch!'  'Can't possibly lead when he has no clue what people go through.'  'Elitist doofus.'  'Can't relate to the common man!'

Now, when there is someone running who actually lives like us, they do what?  Why, go nuts of course - 'Naive wannabe!'  'No experience!'  'Not ready to be 'a hearbeat away'!'

Hypocrisy is so frickin' rampant anymore.  It's very discouraging.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't think anyone really has an issue with the fact that she "actually lives like us".  What bothers people, myself included, is that she seems to be so over the top about making sure we know she's one of us.  It just comes off an insincere to me.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

So if she doesn't tell us about herself, Katie Couric will?  Is she somehow misrepresenting herself?  Is she really a closet billionaire or something, a sort of reverse Manchurian candidate?  What?  Just how would you do this 'under the top?'

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

A devout Marxist whose only answer to anything is, "Throw Money At It", who has no respect whatsoever for the USA, and has long been in a church based on racist hatred "deserves" to win?

He deserves to be sent to Cuba where he would be happier, and America would be safer... but it's also a good thing we all don't get what we deserve.

I don't think McCain deserves to win either, but at least be honest about both of them being undeserving.

Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting CharlesCS, reply 17


I do, it means she is talking to us. And here I thought people like Obama keep saying that people like McCain are not in tune with people today because he could not email. Yet when someone like Palins tries to relate to people by using common words used in the streets, she gets accused as being a faker. So how more hypocritical can people get when you say you want ketsup in your burger than you complain when you get it? BTW, I never said anyone was inferior, I said they like feeling that way. 2 different things, lets get that straight.
All I see is a lot of complaining about nothing but when real issues are brought up such as Bidens multiple lies in the debate, and Obama's background friends (Rev Wright, Farrakhan, Bill Ayers), everyone either ignores it, chants the change theme or say it's all a lie. And Palin trying to be cool is all you guys have to complain about?

End of CharlesCS's quote

 

Again, I never said I want a politician that can be my buddy or that they act like a 'regular joe / jane.'  Why do you keep saying that?  Maybe you mean 'you people' as in people you talk to daily?  I have no clue.

We'll just have to disagree here then.  I don't see how it shows she's 'talking to us'.  It just seems to me that she's trying too hard to 'relate'.  Just use normal terms and I'll decide for myself if your points on issues are agreeable with me.