Kaloonzu

The Great Debates -- VP Debates -- "Palin Needs Structure"

The Great Debates -- VP Debates -- "Palin Needs Structure"

VP Candidate Palin Needs to Have Q's Ahead of Time

It would seem that with the Vice Presidential debates on the horizon, the Republicans are realizing that McCain lying through his teeth and picking a VP candidate who knows nothing about anything relevant to this election, they are trying to get a safety net: they are requesting a highly structured debate, with Biden and Palin getting the questions well before Thursday, and giving anyone who isn't experienced enough *COUGH* Palin *COUGH* time to figure out how to answer each of the questions that will be asked that night. We can now only hope that Biden how some pretty witty rebuttals and retorts to throw Palin off her guard, because, unfortunately, she's going to know everything she needs to for all of 90 minutes. Post your thoughts here, I don't feel like linking this to CNN.com.

132,389 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

The one thing that has annoyed me from the start is this business that John McCain and Sarah Palin are the canidates for change.  The last eight years has demonstrated that the tickle down theory DOES NOT WORK.  The Republican philosophy that the market can and will regulate itself is false.  This was demonstrated by the WORST finanical meltdown in HISTORY. 

How can John McCain, who supported the Bailout plan ( by the way sisn't it classic republican philosophy to have the government step in to fix the free market :rolleyes: ) say that he will fix things in Washington?  He promised the bill would pass, he suspeneded his Presidental Campaign to do so, and before he even got to D.C. there was a tenitive agreement. Then it falls through, a new plan is drafted, and the bill passes in the Senate.  Then the House Republicans, the supposed badasses, don't pass the bill because of a Speech?  It wasn't as partisan as Fake News would like you to think.  So much for putting your country first.

Granted, The Bailout bill was flawed and needed to be redrawn, but it went from 3 pages to 450 pages.  That is a WTF moment.

So tell me, how does John McCain plan to fix the economy when "the fundementals of the economy are strong"?  Change the definition all you like, but you still screwed up there.

  In the VP debate Sarah Palin contridicted herself.  She went on and on about how she will provide the "oversight Americans want and deserve" from the Federal Governement, and then ranted about how evil big government is!  Her state has a population the size of Memphis.  How can she say she has experience when she worked with a canvass that small.

She didn't even answer most of her questions!  To be fair, Biden dodged his fair share, but most of his answers made sense.  He didn't dare I say, flip-flop positions in five minutes.

 

How can a party that has controled the Senate and House for ten of tweleve years, been placed in the Whitehouse, not elected, eight years, presided over the biggest increase of governement ever put themselves off as the Canidates for change?

Reply #27 Top

Just out of curiosity - which ones did you feel Biden didn't answer?

I confess, I saw him answer, then go where he wanted to go with it - generally mentioning that "BTW - this problem stems from a George Bush policy that John McCain supported wholeheartedly until, oh, about two o'clock", but if he actually sidestepped one he did it so slickly it got past me.

Now, the one I notice Palin *did* answer, and it concerned me, was the one where Gwen Ifill (sp?) asked what you had learned/changed your mind about since working in office . . . and Palin's response was that she had never been forced to compromise herself. That one bothered me - taking her at her word, to learn soomething or change your mind is *not* perceived by her as a matter of improving yourself, but as an issue of being corrupted by the world.

That really bothers me,

Jonnan

Reply #28 Top

My mother is a member of the most corrupt union in the country, OMG!!!11111  She's totally an unbiased source of information.  You're about as objective as a hole in the wall.  Do you actually bother to look things up when you already know them, or do you just stick to educating yourself when it's not something you have a preformed opinion on?  When my mother starts talking crazy shit about something, I either look into it myself or ignore her.  When it was crazy shit about the evils of D&D(yes, it's embarrassing, no I'm not enough of a dweeb to play table top rpg's, she was distressed that you cast spells in Warhammer), I didn't run to the nearest wackjob site to see if anyone had been possesed by Satan after playing a game.  Treat your liberal nonsense the same way I treat my conservative nonsense.

 

Out of service rates, Mexican trucks driving on US soil have better track records.

Accident rates, Mexican trucks driving on US soil have better track records.

Insurance, Mexican trucks driving on US soil have more insurance coverage.

 

If you want, wash your hands of it and send me your evil Alaskan tax refund you're unfairly stealing from a hard working corporation.

 

First, the state owns the resources.  Yes, Alaska owns oil rights on all state and federal land.  It's in the statehood pact, not that the rest of the country has bothered to hold to that deal, ANWR anyone?  Gotta love protected permafrost and mosquito farms.

 

Second, she appears to be a little vindictive.  The oil companies have been screwing us on a gas pipeline, the monopoly they've formed was refusing to build it so they could get a better deal on the royalties.  When she got in, she went around them, hired an outside firm from Canada to build the pipeline, and stuck it to them with a windfall profits tax.  I don't agree with windfall taxes, however I do see the merits in punishing companies for blackmail, bribery, and forming a cabal to start with.  I'd prefer jail time and civil suits though.  Unfortunately, even if she's a bit of a bitch, which appears likely, all the other corrupt officials and the companies buying them are in severe need of equal treatment right now.  Vindictive or bought and paid for...  Is it a hard call for you?

 

Third, currently residing in Oklahoma, I have no check.  Sorry, you'll have to try something else to see if I have a heart.

 

Stop reading biased information sources regardless of how many times they're proven wrong.  After I factored in your typo, I still spent an hour looking for any information on the city administrator position being a result of political pressure.  There is none.  Even the sites that claim it are all just running off the same unsourced story, which has numerous other verified factual errors.  Not that the NYT bothers to correct them.

 

For the Senate, you need help.  McCain is left of center on almost everything.  Do you even pay attention to the bills they're passing?  The bailout passed with flying colors, even most liberals can't stomach that level of government intervention.  They've grossly expanded the budget every year, adding pork, pork and more pork.  Health care initiatives, immigration, that obscenity of an energy bill that's paying the agricultural industry to pollute more and starve people while doubling the price of corn.  If the republicans really were mostly conservatives, and the democrats really were mostly moderate, they wouldn't be passing flaming hippy liberal shit bills all the time and giving us preposterous budget deficits even when revenue is at a record high.  Instead, we haven't had a single attempt to block any of it even when they were the majority.

 

I guess this is what happens when there isn't an actual conservative running something, the wishy washy moderates pissing away money left and right in an attempt to survive a primary bid against someone remotely honest end up with the label and the whole spectrum goes to hell in a lopsided socialist handbasket.

 

Edit: I didn't seen any Biden question dodging, just the usual Biden problem.  Unless you consider lying to be dodging, that doesn't seem an unreasonable viewpoint.  He does have a serious issue when it comes to honesty.  Palin dodging pissed me off though, ignoring a dumb gotcha question sure, but skipping a legitimate question just to throw a barb is juvenile even when accurate.

Reply #29 Top

Psychoak, for awhile now I've been under the impression you really don't have the foggiest notion of what you're talking about.

The people that actualy deal with something day to day have an opinion on something, and it offends psychoak, and he starts foaming at the mouths screaming about liberals lying about everything.

The people of Wasilla don't agree with your assessment of Sarah Palin. Get over it.

Truck Drivers don't agree with your assessment of the state of repair of Mexican Trucks that come into the U.S.A. Get over it.

People that study the economy don't agree with your assessment of how to run an economy. Get over it.

Professional fact checkers don't agree woth your assessment of the honesty of Joe Biden. Get over it.

Heck, for that matter, the Republican Party doesn't agree with your definition of conservative.

Guess what - Get over it.

Jonnan

Reply #30 Top

Fact check organizations like what, moveon.org?  Biden's made more false statements than a neural net poetry generator in his tenure as a Senator.  The guy makes shit up on the fly half the time, he's almost as bad as Hillary claiming sniper fire.

 

Try factcheck.org and politifact.com, they aren't perfect but they're probably more accurate than any of your sources are if you can't tell Biden plays fast and loose with the truth.  Those evil republicans aren't the only two lying morons in the race.

 

For your mother, maybe if she were supported by facts instead of refuted by them across the board, maybe I wouldn't blame it on her belonging to an organization that doesn't like competition.  Consider it a blessing that I assume she has an inherent bias due to her position in life instead of just being a racist and not liking them damn wetbacks like us evil republicans.

 

For Palin not being liked by Wasilla, ahah.  Ahahah.  What rock are you hiding under?  Even MSNBC isn't lying about her poll numbers.  Before she was picked to be VP she was the second coming up there, she's never had bad polling, and was consistently above 80%.  Even running against Obama and pissing off a third of the population with attacks, she's still riding around 70%.

 

As far as the economists go, idiot again.  There are more schools of thought than Keynesian economics.  Keynes didn't even create what's being called Keynesian economics.  If they weren't populating the liberal colleges while people that can actually make money run businesses in the real world, it would already be a dead school.  So many of his theories on government intervention have been proven false at this point that it's not even funny.  He's out there with Malthus in the really fucking wrong category.

 

As far as the republicans go...  There's a reason they keep losing seats.  Maybe when they agree with my definition of conservative they'll do better eh?  They lost their base in 98 when, after dumping Gingrich, who torpedoed himself with his mouth, they went liberal and played nice with the loony toons on the other side.

Reply #31 Top

By all means, yes, lets try Factcheck.org.

Summary

Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

    * Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

    * Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

    * Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

    * Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

    * Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

    * Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, please read on to the Analysis section.



So they both said misleading things about a tax bill, (McCain actually voted against it, Obama voted for it but it only affected families making $90,000), Joe Biden misrepresented a question of whether McCain actually wouldn't talk to the president of spain, when actually McCain got very confused about Where Spain Is, despite the interviewer trying to correct him several times.

In the Mean time, Palin misrepresented that we are at 'pre-surge' levels in Iraq - we're not;

Palin referred to McCains Healthcare plan as Budget neutral - it's been evaluated as being in the ten's of billions of dollars a year.

We can probably call the distinction between 'millions of small businesses' and a few huindred thousand as hyperbole - sloppy, but probably not dishonest - I'm not planning on arguing the fact that McCain only voted against alternative energy eleven time rather than twenty as being anything but a bad number, but correct context fo Joe Biden, so it's fair.

On the other hand, not knowing how many troops are in Iraq? tens of billions of dollars in  healthcare plan? Getting the General in charge of Afghanistan's name wrong *and* tryiing to say he never said the surge wouldn't work in Afghanistan? Claiming we had killed no civilians in Afghanistan?

oh, and I like this one:


McCain in the Vanguard of Mortgage Reform?


Palin said that McCain had sounded the alarm on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago.

    Palin: We need to look back, even two years ago, and we need to be appreciative of John McCain's call for reform with Fannie Mae, with Freddie Mac, with the mortgage-lenders, too, who were starting to really kind of rear that head of abuse.

Palin is referring to a bill that would have increased oversight on Fannie and Freddie. In our recent article about assigning blame for the crisis, we found that by the time McCain added his name to the bill as a cosponsor, the collapse was well underway. Home prices began falling only two months later. Our colleagues at PolitiFact also questioned this claim.



And this one is technically a critique of Joe Biden - {G}



Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." As we’ve noted previously, McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies.



Those are some fairly serious errors on the Palin side, compared to some pretty minor ones from Joe Biden. Did you like - *read* what Factcheck.org had to say before screaming about how they were going to support you on this?

Reply #32 Top

WTH happened to the formatting?

Reply #33 Top

Truck Drivers don't agree with your assessment of the state of repair of Mexican Trucks that come into the U.S.A. Get over it.
I AM a professional OTR interstate truck driver and believe me, US truck drivers DO NOT WANT Mexican drivers and rigs running all over this country...It's bad enough already for US truckers with freight rates being pushed down, fuel costs rising and road useage fees and tolls increasing... And the "NAFTA-ites" want to sell more US jobs down the river?

 

 

 

 

Reply #34 Top

WTH happened to the formatting?

Fixed.

Reply #35 Top

I AM a professional OTR interstate truck driver and believe me, US truck drivers DO NOT WANT Mexican drivers and rigs running all over this country...It's bad enough already for US truckers with freight rates being pushed down, fuel costs rising and road useage fees and tolls increasing... And the "NAFTA-ites" want to sell more US jobs down the river?

 

The NAFTA-ites have a firmer grip on reality.  Your job is going to disappear anyway.  Trucking is inefficient.  It excells in one area, small scale shipping.  Interstate shipping, by definition, isn't small scale.  Trucks are for sending crap from the big city to the small putz towns around it that can't justify a locomotive pulling rail cars at a hundred times your efficiency.  The nature of progress is to remove inefficiencies and replace them with improvements.  Rail transport is more cost effective in every way for large scale shipping, faster, cheaper, energy efficient, lower labor requirements.  The long haul trucker is already dead and it has nothing to do with free trade.

 

As a liberal with a superior intellect that analyzes and forms educated opinions based on the facts, this should be obvious.

 

Edit: Brilliant, I clicked reply...

 

Jonnan, read that paragraph where I sent you to the fact checkers, the last sentence isn't exactly a glowing review of the opposition candidates.  I kinda want McCain to drop dead say... yesterday.  It's really too bad the fucker had the stones to pick torture over early release, it's hard to hate pond scum for being pond scum after such a display of character.  Read back through the checks too, your bias screams on a couple of them.  The fact checkers aren't perfect either.  Occasionally they'll fact check something, prove it one way with the evidence, and then decide the other in their editorial on it.  I can usually see the process that gets them there, but it's always ugly when they do.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting kryo, reply 9

WTH happened to the formatting?
Fixed.

If I may Kryo, was there anything specific I mangled in my post that would have caused that, or did it just get corrupted going into the DB somehow?

 

Psychoak - we already knew they're not perfect - I'm just amazed because 'not perfect' is the mildest thing you've ever had to say about a source that completely contradicts your premise- {G}.

Jonnan

Reply #37 Top

If I may Kryo, was there anything specific I mangled in my post that would have caused that, or did it just get corrupted going into the DB somehow?

You quoted out of the middle of a webpage, and the html end tags left dangling in the middle of that quoted segment closed those here prematurely. For future reference, paste into notepad first to strip hidden formatting (If you use firefox, there's a copy as plain text addon), then recopy and paste into your reply.

Reply #38 Top

Ah thank you!;

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/134 if anyone else wants a copy.

Jonnan

Reply #39 Top

You assume I'm busily humping McCain's leg just because I'm hoping Obama gets assassinated by a crazy dixicrat clansman when he gets elected.  I'm just tired of all the bullshit surrounding Palin when she's the vp pick against a fucking moron for a presidential pick with less experience and more unsavory ties, gotta love all those present votes in a chief executive.  This election is a choice between Satan and Hitler from my point of view.  There's the McCain Fiengold Incumbent Protection Act that goes about criminal activity in the ass backwards fashion of making something completely reasonable illegal to prevent an already illegal act instead of just prosecuting for the illegal act and throwing the fuckers in jail.  There's the umpteenth amnesty bill he's intent on pushing through congress even after we shot it down, miraculously, knowing full well that hell would freeze over before they carried out the security aspects and actually shut down further illegal immigration.  I've a multitude of other so called "compromises" that I want his head on a pike for.  Mainly I just severely dislike having to respect the guy in spite of his frequent trampling of rights.

 

Then of course, outside his political views, the guy just flat fuckin pisses me off.  I'm Mr. Straight Talk!  Um... you assholes over there, stop telling the truth about my opponent!  My own campaign is completely capable of lying about him in ways that don't touch on his commie/fascist/racist/terrorist laden personal life!  Oh, and his bought and paid for status in connection to the GSE's I'm going to pretend failed because of greedy wallstreet(did anyone know wallstreet was running the mortgage companies?) instead of our housing initiatives I was a fucking shithead and let through a republican controlled Senate so ACORN could extort banks into making bad loans and start a dangerous precident!

Reply #40 Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 14
(...) I'm hoping Obama gets assassinated by a crazy dixicrat clansman when he gets elected.

Please do not assume this individual's beliefs and behavior are representative of most or all conservatives.