Stardock Forums
US price for Sins: Entrenchment is $9.95
but when I try to buy it, the price is £7.95
???
It attempts to show you the price in local currency, however you pay in $USD. So it will cost whatever $9.95 is converted to your currency. 
Why one title for example Kudos (same price $9.95) costs me £5.52
and another like Sins: Entrenchment costs £7.95
???
We can only price items at the current exchange if we have worldwide distribution rights. In this case, Kalypso is on board for the Sins expansions' (eventual) Europe retail release, so we can't undercut their price.
And it makes no difference that Entrenchment is Impulse-only? As in, Kalypso is actually going to put it on retail shelves as boxed versions? Or are they going with some European digital distribution service?
I guess it isn't obviously clear to me why you would have to worry about Kalypso unless they are also releasing Entrenchment by itself somehow.
By extension, does that mean folks from Europe who are buying Sins itself through Impulse no longer get charged the SD price in USD, but whatever Kalypso charges in their area for the box? That also seems quite odd..
Kalypso will be selling the Sins' expansions as an Impulse affiliate digitally and also at retail next year when the full expansion is released.
Looks like european customers need to buy from Impulse before a deal is made with european distributors ....
It certainly is a weird situation.. and I don't think a very good one. Before Kalypso jumped on board, anyone from around the world could get it from Stardock knowing they'd only pay in USD.
Now, even though they might get Entrenchment (I don't think it applies to Sins itself) directly from Stardock's store, they're still paying what Kalypso is charging because they want to sell as an Impulse affiliate.
Unfortunately, this is still preferrable to the alternative of stranding everyone outside the US who may not speak English without any expansions until the final retail box. It sort of rubs the wrong way on principle, but the difference at least is small, compared to a fully priced game in USD and Euros.
Yet another company that thinks its ok to rip off its European customers how can they possibly justify a difference of 40% above the exchange rate especially for a digital download. My opinion of stardock has just plumeted and I won't be buying either the original or the expansion I had been waiting for 1.1
Eh, you should be blaming Kalypso since it's their price that Stardock is forced to match.
If they didn't let Kalypso release the micro expansions, they could charge in USD. But then, there would only be an English language version and folks who don't know enough English are screwed until all 3 packs are out and they can let Kalypso box it.
So yeah, it sucks that they're forced to charge more because they can't undercut Kalypso, but it's the lesser of two evils. Either they strand Europe without localized versions for half a year or more, or they let Kalypso localize it but have to charge extra.
What would you do? 
I can see no way that localised language version's would add 40% to the total budget so they could make them all available from impulse in USD I can even see justification for charging the extra to localise it, imo software should cost almost the same worldwide (allowing for distribution costs local taxes) especially on a download. We constantly pay more in Europe (the UK is noticably more expensive than the mainland) and there is an almost never ending list of excuses from shipping costs to marketing laws but when you dig into it the excuses only ever seem to make up about half of the difference in price
Bet the boxed product costs 40% more when it comes out as well!
It's Kalypso that sets their price, and I don't know how much pull Stardock has with it. Kalypso also charges more for the localized box versions of Sins, but you can still get it for the USD price on Impulse because Kalypso isn't selling it over Impulse like they will the expansions.
I know you folks in Europe get screwed on game prices, and Stardock also doesn't localize prices as a general policy. But in this case, because Kalypso will be selling it as an Impulse affiliate they are forced to match the price.
Sadly, you're probably right that the box Kalypso will release with all the packaged micro expansions will cost more than a straight USD conversion. I'm hoping that Stardock won't allow them to also sell it digitally on Impulse, so they can keep the "USD-only" price option for those who speak English primarily or at least don't mind playing in English.
There are various reasons for those price difference:
- localization costs in euro
- various languages that needs a localization, with a relative small user base in each language that will bough this expansion
- price adapted to the euros market. For example, in France the retail box for an AAA game is generally 50 euros
- price set independantly of the exchange rate between euros and USD.
BTW, the current exchange rate between USD and euros is 1.4 when few month ago it was near 1.6. If it continue like this, the overpricing would appear smaller in few months ;)
No, I'm not happy with this - not that there is a lot I can do about it. I am a great fan of what Stardock are doing and have a lot of their products. This is a Stardock / IronClad game which I purchased through Stardock Impulse in USD and got the prevailing exchange rate. Now we are being told that they cant offer the expansion at fair exchange rates because they made an agreement with some other jokers.
It's not the ammount in this case - peanuts - but the principle. I can understand when Stardock offer other peoples products that they are bound by whatever distribution agreements they may have already made - but for their own product and to switch between full game and expansion. That stinks.
And forget the localaisation - I speak English.
If this is set as a precident then we soon will start seeing their full products done this way as well.
How about adding that to the Gamers Bill of Rights:
11. Gamers have the right to expect to be able to purchase their game at a fair price determined by the exchange rate between the currency of the country of originand their own currency.
P.S. Yes, I would be happy if the exchange rate went the other way - that's only fair too.
It's not the ammount in this case - peanuts - but the principle. I can understand when Stardock offer other peoples products that they are bound by whatever distribution agreements they may have already made - but for their own product and to switch between full game and expansion. That stinks.
And forget the localaisation - I speak English.
If this is set as a precident then we soon will start seeing their full products done this way as well.
Yeah, I know, it sucks. I'm in the US, andI think it sucks because charging only in $USD was a staple of Stardock's online shopping and it always made people happy because they could say "Finally, I'm not getting screwed!".
I don't think full boxes will have this problem though. At least I sincerely hope they don't let their EU publishers sell it through Impulse. I think this is a pretty unique case because Entrenchment is online-only, so if they want the non-English speaking population to get it at the same time, well, they have to swallow this crap. I don't imagine they're entirely happy with this themselves.
Honestly though I still don't quite understand why they can't just say screw it to Kalypso and insist that if people want to buy the US version directly from them they can, and if they want to buy a localized from Kalypso (even an English localized :P) then Kalypso can charge whatever they want. Because, really, Kalypso has nothing to do with the US version. But I guess it's not that easy!
To put it in perspective, this is the same company that said "Well, we can't undercut the retailers selling our box" so instead they added a music cd + stuff to the box you get from them. And after that, they actually dropped the price for that because the box ended up weighing less than they were told and they could afford to ship them cheaper. So I don't think they were sitting there "Hmm, how can we get an extra 2 euros...."
" various languages that needs a localization, with a relative small user base in each language that will bough this expansion"
I can see no way that added a few files in French Spanish etc and paying a translator is going to add 40% to the total budget it should be a tiny fraction and exactly what localisation is required for the UK I have emailed them and asked not sure if I'll get a meaningful reply companies are usually reticent to discuss budgets etc.
"- price adapted to the euros market. For example, in France the retail box for an AAA game is generally 50 euros"
Price fixing is illegal and just because EA (for example)rip off their European customers thats no excuse for anyone else to do it.
"- price set independantly of the exchange rate between euros and USD."
No reason for it to be as stardock's costs will either be in USD or tied to the exchange rate ( I doubt Stardock keep foriegn currency)
"because charging only in $USD was a staple of Stardock's online shopping and it always made people happy because they could say "Finally, I'm not getting screwed!"."
Exactly, I have a low opinion of software companies in general but I expected this sort of crap from microsoft not from stardock
I have to agree with unikey, these kind of stunts would place Stardock in the "good" company along with Microsoft, Adobe etc.
This is very poor. I'm in England and thus don't care about non-English translations, or prices and rates in Euros. It's fair enough that the non-English speaking Eurozone might have differential pricing but there's an amount of 'lets rip off England because we can' going on here.
I'll buy the expansion because Sins is so much fun, but I'm most unhappy. This doesn't fit with the attitude of the 'gamers bill of rights' at all, I'm having to pay extra for nothing.
<humour>If I'm paying for localisation, will there be ENGLISH English with any Americanisms removed (!?)</humor>
Have you looked at reply #27 in this thread http://forums.impulsedriven.com/326317/page/2/#1899207 (weekly impusle update - 3rd october) ?
It is very instructive ...
To play devil's advocate, I don't think SD's agreement with THQ has any relevance to Entrenchment. There's a bit of a perceived difference between being forced to do regional pricing because they're the secondary publisher picking up a game from another, and doing regional pricing for their own game because they let a secondary publisher distribute theirs
Common sense sort of says since Entrenchment is Stardock's game they shouldn't have obligations to match their secondary publisher's prices, but unfortunately the business world doesn't always work on common sense and we of course don't know much of the agreement.
Perharps, but the result is the same: regional pricing to prevent someone from being undercut
Erp, I edited mine a bit since it had no replies yet It's still a bit different because (to my understanding) these games weren't available worldwide previously, so it's still one thing to say "Well, now anyone in the world will be able to download these, but THQ is making us do regional pricing" and "Well, anyone in the world could download these before, but since we let another publisher translate, we have to charge what they charge"
I understand why it has to be this way of course, but you have to admit - the English speaking European crowd does have a point if you look at it from their point of view (well, it's also sort of your point of view though you're also in my "I understand" boat). What do they care about Kalypso's translations to French, German, Russian, or whatever? Their English version (that Kalypso now charges more for) is the same as the US English. So even if they want to buy the US version directly from Stardock, they still end up paying the Kalypso price even though the US version has absolutely nothing to do with Kalypso.
Like I said, the business world defies common sense sometimes
I find this greatly ironical, since I came to the site today on impulse (no pun intended) because I have come to respect Stardock a great deal for not ripping me off - and being exceptionally good value for money. (I bought Sins as a download before it was released at retail in the UK (I believe at the time there was not even a projected publisher for the UK).)
I had been reading Brad's article on piracy and I thought to myself, "hey, I wonder if they've got anything new over at Stardock, seeing as they're one of the few companies left who aren't going to to shiv me up for the priviledge of paying them money!"
And I find then that I have to pay extra for something for the priviledge of Some Geezers (Kalypso apparently) so the French (et al) can have a translation. (A pittance extra granted, - but enough that on my extremely limited budget, I could have afforded a fiver to burn on a whim but £8 is discouraging me. So I'll have to wait.)
I'll be brutally honest; I don't give a flying frack about alternate language translations - because I speak only English. I find it personally offensive that the business people somewhere (and not just talking computer games here, DVDs as well) choose to deliberatly stuff the UK - and Austraila (and any other-primarily English-only speaking country) - for no reason other than they think they can. There's no damned reason all the English-speaking places couldn't have been in the same region for DVDs, for example (not that the whole regioning thing wasn't a deliberate attempt to stuff the customer anyway!) I really hate having to wait six months plus for games (etc) to come out in the UK - if they do at all - because some fracker decided some time ago that geography was a better barrier than language to make money off.
I object to paying for things I don't need, quadruply so when totally unnecessary. It's the principle more than the money too. If for, example, a PDF book company went round saying, "actually, we're going to charge you an extra 50% because you live in Europe so you have to download the French and German (etc) translation too" they'd be laughed out of the market, surely? What's the difference?
I can undestand a price rise to pay for translators for nonEnglish speakers (or vise-versa for games from nonEnglish designers). Fair do's, somebody's got to spend a lot of work to do that. I can understand a price rise for a retail box set (duh). But to charge people extra based on geography for an electronic download IN THE GAME'S ORIGINAL LANGUAGE is frankly ludicrous and there is no amount of justification that Kalypso - whom I for the moment am holding to the lion's share of the blame - can give me that doesn't amount to corporate greed. They (being Kalypso, since it would appear Stardock is being held over a barrel by their pricing ineptitude) could I suppose, say, "well, we have to charge extra for Europe, so we can't show preference to you Brits," to which I would reply, "fair enough, so what are we getting extra, then? Oh, nothing? So you're charging us for something most of us can't use? Nice. Thanks for that. And the reason I can't buy the version that doesn't have the extras I can't use is...what again?" They could say it was something to do with it being the EU regulations or something equally daft (which would merely shift the corporate greed to the EU) or that it would mess up their distribution software or something (which would translate to "we can't be arsed to make any effort on your behalf.").
My confidence in Stardock has taken a minor hit; not a fatal one, since my desire to play decent games is greater - for the moment - than even EA's ham-handed blundering (they're the new Microsoft. They suck, but I don't have any other options if I want to do the things I want to do). And I'm giving Stardock the benefit of the doubt, here, because I'm (probably naively) hoping this sort of thing isn't going to become commonplace.
(If it does, I think in the long run, it'll be more to Stardock's detriment, since if I have to pay extra for the same thing, I for one will be less likely to buy direct from Stardock (which of course gives them all their well-earned profit) and more likely to buy the thing from retail; if the price isn't going to be different to me, I may as well squeeze every last, gasping drop of value out of my purchase (which would be physical disks, boxes and manuals and stuff). (Yes, I'm that tight.)
Kalypso, on the other hand, just filed themselves right up their with EA and Microsoft (and Sony et al and whoever verminous cretin came up with regioning may they burn in eternal agony) on the "complete money-grubbing doodoo-heads" list.
Forgive the somewhat lengthy rant, folks, but this sort of thing has been getting me aggravated for some time now...take it as it is intended; rather verbose, exasperated irritation, rather than boiling anger. It's a sort of backhanded compliment, actually, since I actually think highly enough of Stardock to believe that my opinion actually does matter to them, unlike many other large companies who shall remain nameless. And I hold some hope that enough British people say "I say! That's just not cricket!" there is a remote possibility that Stardock may take that into account next time. I'm not going to shriek and cry blue murder and never buy from Stardock again, because ultimately, at the end of the day, I just want to play games too.
Especially since I'm one of those defensive-type, turtle players who are going to benefit from Entrenchment...
Well, if you have any friends in the US you can get them to buy it as a gift, or if you can find a proxy (some have for other purchases). So there are ways around it, at least.
Oddly enough, not everyone in the world knows people in the US...!
I suppose I could - and maybe will - find a proxy as and when, but assuming that it is cheaper, it also means, does it not, that Stardock gets less of the money I spend. I'd frankly prefer them to get all of the money I spend on their games, seeing as they made the things... And doing so also points out what an entirely pointless exercise it was in the first place. (And the more people try and clamp down on this sort of thing, the more like EA you become. Path to the Dark Side, that is.) My morals, in the end, only hold out as far as the cheapest place I can buy something. While I wholeheartedly support Stardock, if I can get something cheaper somewhere, I'm going to do so, being an extremely tight bastard with limited funds... (I mean, really, unless the blokes making the thing you really love are in danger of going out of business of something and desparatly needs the money, it's daft not too.)
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Thanks Yarlen!