Dems trying to give ACORN a piece of the Bail Out

They caused it and are bound and determined to keep it broken! You dont repair a car with a broken carburator!

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And people still believe they will do good with our money. I just don't get it. I just don't understand it at all. How is it that article after article, story after story, report after report, the Dems have been shown to be the ones who have done everything within their powers to cause this issue and to prevent legislation to fix it before it got out of hand yet people still see them as the only solution to our problems.

Can a dislike towards Bush be that strong amongst Americans that no matter how bad the Democrats can be, no matter how many lies Obama can throw out there, no matter what they say or do to shoot themselves in the foot time and again, they would rather have this kind of leader ship over anything resembling Bush?

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+349

Dems appear afraid they can't win elections straight up - gotta have the dead, felons & homeless winos vote just in case. Vote-buying at its finest.

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This appalled me the most....to attach strings to something of this magnitude is insult enough, to dole out money to a questionable (clearly partisan) organization is more salt in the wound. How can these criminals look the American people straight in the eye. Republicans are far from saints, but how blatantly slimy can the Democrats get?

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Notice that the liberals are staying away. Hardly surprising. I think they realize that while they can fool most of the people on this, they cannot browbeat those who stay informed.

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One of the most scary provisions was a 20% earmark for ACORN

If you read the bill provision its not a 20% earmark to ACORN. It funnels abt 6% of potential profits into a fund that is already established under another statute for a HUD program. Out of that there is a 15% limit so its less than !% that could be given to something like ACORN. In any case rediculous for the Dems to make the bailout bill so bloated because there wont be any profits from the derivatives they we are buying.

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Anthony R

Join Date 01/2003

+59

Notice that the liberals are staying away. Hardly surprising. I think they realize that while they can fool most of the people on this, they cannot browbeat those who stay informed.

Too bad... I was so looking forward to another copy and paste barrage of bogus details.

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Too bad... I was so looking forward to another copy and paste barrage of bogus details

Theres plenty that can be thrown at both sides. The same money could be funneled to help subsidize Rangels rent controlled office but when you look at what the house reps are doing and realize that the insurance provisions they want in the bill could allow the banks to get the govt to pay dollar for dollar instead of 65 cents on the dollar for the derivatives you realize how screwed up congress is....And they will both use this to try to get reelected in five weeks. Theyre trying to hide what is probably the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of mankind and most of them will probably get reelected.

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Notice that the liberals are staying away. Hardly surprising. I think they realize that while they can fool most of the people on this, they cannot browbeat those who stay informed.

Unfortunately you are the one who has it wrong.

The dems were good enough to get a stock option/warrant clause (thanks to the Oracle of Omaha), but I suspect King Paulson will be as shrewd with others as he was with AIG in any case. That was a good deal for the taxpayer if you haven't figured that out yet. And don't pout about the social programs either. I bet it will help a bunch of republicans, particularly in the hurricane torn areas around the oilpatch. You can rest easy since the house republicans got you some insurance provisions(even though they are symbolic and will never be used). The fact is the ecconomy will not recover until the current excess inventory of homes drops so that prices can stabilze, start rising, after which the home construction business can get moving again. As much as some hate ACORN if you read the bill, the fund which receives the small % of profits is from another bill that is trying to fix the mortgage problem. This fund is used to try to get some of the bad ARM's switched over to fixed rate mortgages. The OP simply copied other bloggers rhetoric and didnt even read the bill proposal in order to see what BS she was repeating.

The vast majority of the initial bad loans are second homes and investment flips that went bad as the market turned.....Look at one of the worst areas hit.....It is the beachfront condos in florida.....Flippers and investors who walked away from the loans as prices dropped. Now we have a new problem......As employment gets worse some who start going past the the benefit period will start looking into the subprime market as a last ditch effort to save their homes because they wont be able to pay their mortgages.

So we have a bill that tries to fix a symptom....extremely tight credit....which was modified to help with a bill passed 6 months ago that addresses trying to keep the housing market from getting worse. Its the house republicans who not only held up but put a totally useless mechanism in the bill. They want an option to let the the failing companies insure the bad securities. It doesn't do anything to solve either problem and furthermore its use would cost the taxpayer more. Paulson and Bernanke had already looked at this type of thing after they decided to insure money market funds and came to the conclusion that it wouldnt help in any way.

If you know anything about the indicators used to predict tightening credit markets you will see how close they are to the marks that caused the markets to crash during the S&L crisis(Black Monday) and Black Thusrsday in 1929. Imagine what happens these days since there are global markets with many traders using electronic trading that sets orders to execute when specific indicators are met. That is why this has been pushed....Many are afraid right now that if this doesnt look definate by the time the asian markets open tonight some of the indicators might get to the mark which will set off a huge amount of electronic selling. That is why nobody in the Senate wanted the Pres candidates to fly to DC and inject presidential politics into the process.

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It funnels abt 6% of potential profits into a fund that is already established under another statute for a HUD program. Out of that there is a 15% limit so its less than !% that could be given to something like ACORN. In any case rediculous for the Dems to make the bailout bill so bloated because there wont be any profits from the derivatives they we are buying.

No, you are wrong. It is not 20% of the bailout, but it is 20% - of any profits of the dead assets:

DEPOSITS. Not less than 20 percent of any profit realized on the sale of each troubled asset purchased under this Act shall be deposited as provided in paragraph (2).

USE OF DEPOSITS. Of the amount referred to in paragraph (1) 65 percent shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4568); and 35 percent shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund established under section 1339 of that Act (12 U.S.C. 4569).

While not as bad as Jilluser initially claimed, it does beg the question, why are you using bailout money to basically fuind the problem that created the need for the bailout? And this makes sense to some people?

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Unfortunately you are the one who has it wrong.

No, and posting authoratative looking figures that are false does not win debates either. I will hand it to you for trying to put a pretty face on this fiasco of democrat policies. You got guts. But unfortunately the facts are not on your side.

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No, you are wrong. It is not 20% of the bailout, but it is 20% - of any profits of the dead assets

That is correct. So you take 20% and multiply it by 65% then when you look at the rest of the bill it restricts any entity to 15% of so you multiply it once again by 15%.Simple math tells you that the OP is incorrect. Not to mention ACORN may or may not qualify. The purpose of the fund at this point in the game is to get ARMS converted to Fixed rated loans.

What is important is the whole deal. When you track credit market vehicles you watch the flow to and from banks. We know what percent banks have to have in deposits vs. assets. What is happening now is that foreign banks started divesting in US MBS last year in favor of treasuries. So now the banks are flush with these MBS's and the big investors now are offering about 20 cents on the dollar, so that is what the banks have to use to calculate assets vs. deposits. So the banks are failing because they cant sell ANY mbs good and bad alike for higher than 20 cents on the dollar unless their deposits go up. Unfortunately none of the banks trust each other right now so there is minimal lending amongst them, even overnight lending which many companies require to meet such obligations as payrolls. Maybe your starting to get the picture.....it would take a book to explain the whole situation.

In any case without this bailout happening....The big money investors will wait on the sidelines, the credit triggers will trigger a market selloff and even more deposits will start flowing out the banks, and the rest is simply not a very pretty picture.

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I will hand it to you for trying to put a pretty face on this fiasco of democrat policie

Its not a pretty picture. But if you understand how important the housing sector is to our economy, then you realize how important home ownership rates are. Especially since the manufacturing sector was shipped overseas.

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Its not a pretty picture. But if you understand how important the housing sector is to our economy, then you realize how important home ownership rates are. Especially when the manufacturing sector was shipped overseas.

True - but you cannot give the grasshopper the ants house and expect him to keep it up. That is what the democrats are trying to do, and we see with disasterous results.

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While not as bad as Jilluser initially claimed, it does beg the question, why are you using bailout money to basically fuind the problem that created the need for the bailout? And this makes sense to some people?

Because CRA lending is not the problem. These are fixed rates loans, not ARM's which are what is fueling the problem. The vast majority of the ARMS initially were given to flippers or those who didn't know abt the CRA or other HUD progams. However recently many ARMS have gone to people who lost their jobs in the last year. The bill doesnt fix the problem because their is still predatory lending going on but there is a federal law on the books from 1992 dealing with this and unfortunatley the administration didnt even start trying to enforce it until this past summer.

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Because CRA lending is not the problem. These are fixed rates loans, not ARM's which are what is fueling the problem.

They ARE the problem. ARMs are just part of it. Giving loans to those who cannot afford them or do not have the discipline to pay them is the problem and the CRA is a big part of that. Some ARMS are failing, not all. SOme fixed are failing, not all. Singling out one type of loan misses the big picture. Giving loans to those not ready to assume the responsibility all in the name of "good intentions".

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They ARE the problem. ARMs are just part of it.

ARMS are the problem. You can see it in the Foreclosure Statistics. It is why we now have the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 which btw affects the the way the Housing Trust Fund and Capital Management Funds are allocated. It allows people to swap out of arms that were created from predatory lendors to fixed rate mortgages that not only help the borrower but also helps boost the assets in Fannie and Freddie.

No doc and ninja loans are the creation of market swindlers not CRA or HUD.

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I really don't care if it was 20% or .02%. There shouldn't be any kind of earmark for ACORN in there!

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There shouldn't be any kind of earmark for ACORN in there

There isn't. The part of the bill addressing the issue funnels money to a fund which helps hud get ARM's converted to Fixed rate mortgages. It is first of all NOT an earmark and second of all something that supports a bill which came out of Fannie/Freddie hearings to try to keep the housing sector of the economy from falling off a cliff. The whole Acorn rhetoric is hogwash.

This section has bipartisan support in the Senate, the support of both Paulson and Bernanke. Paulson and Bernanke were also instrumental in creating the legislation which reformed the way the Funds mentioned above were restructured to serve the purpose of the Fannie/Freddie reform which happened over the summer. I know I saw the hearings and continue to watch the hearings they are involved with concerning the housing market which are probably archived on the CSPAN website if you wish to see them.

THERE IS NO EARMARK ITS THAT SIMPLE

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ACORN - a program that ensures there will be plenty of nuts LEFT in the future.

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There isn't. The part of the bill addressing the issue funnels money to a fund which helps hud get ARM's converted to Fixed rate mortgages.

USE OF DEPOSITS. Of the amount referred to in paragraph (1) 65 percent shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4568); and 35 percent shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund established under section 1339 of that Act (12 U.S.C. 4569).

"The Housing Trust Fund is a way of funding ACORN, La Raza, and other groups that time and again are caught doing voter fraud operations for the Democrats." Link

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THERE IS NO EARMARK ITS THAT SIMPLE

Of course not since it was removed. But it makes you wonder why? The answer is obvious, but I am sure you will have one that will defend the Democrats yet again rather than simply putting the truth out there as you claim you are here to do.

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"The Housing Trust Fund is a way of funding ACORN, La Raza, and other groups that time and again are caught doing voter fraud operations for the Democrats." Link

Link to another forum post...DOH

ACORN Housing sure, but there are many other groups out there that it funds...Mainly ones that use the GSA's the way they were meant to be used. By selling the actual mortgages to the GSA's so that they have actual assets backing them up instead of having the bogus mbs's that Wall St. creates.

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I am sure you will have one that will defend the Democrats

Im not defending the Democrats....I agree with those who know how important it is to do things to help fix the mortgage market and that is what that provision does. This would include Dems. Reps. and Inds. who voted not only for this bill but also for the GSA' reform bill that passed over the summer.

People need to start to realize that this isnt a Wall St. bailout. It is a fix for the current state of the credit market and more importantly should help ease the economic downturn so that it is not as bad as it could be,

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Of course not since it was removed.

Once again you are incorrect.

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