Kryo/Cari..RE Harborne and his antics

I concur with Neilo.  We have been discussing this situation on a regular basis for a while now, and are very disapointed with Stardock's lack of response to a situation where blatant cheating has occured.  It does not speak at all well of SD's regard for fair competition on the MV, and only serves to encourage further cheating.  We have both put a huge amount of time and effort into building our empires to what they are today, doing it within the rules of the MV, and also within the un-written conventions of the MV community.  This is a situation which must be addressed, and quickly, or risk having the MV devolve into a competition of who can cheat the system more effectively.

Cari, Kryo, and whomever else may be listening, I urge you to rectify this situation as soon as possible.

Sentient species taste better...

I agree.

While I'm by no means condoning this activity, nor am I suggesting that SD do nothing about it, I do think that it's not an instant end to the MV world.

IIRC Kryo mentioned that Cari would be moving the multiple character's games into a single character. While it's clear that this hasn't yet happened I can imagine that Cari has no shortage of pressing things to do. I do believe that she will get to it within a reasonable period of time. There could also be an issue in identifying the specific games to combine.

In any case I think this is probably better off handled with a discrete PM than risk being seen as an attempt at rushing Cari.

In the meantime he's just a name on a list. The only thing that makes your position in the MV of any value whatsoever is the acknowledgement that it gets from other people whose game you respect. Everyone knows Harborne for what he is. His position is known to be the result of cheating by all who matter. In that respect he really doesn't even matter.

I would normally take a tolerant stance, but this is a special circumstance.  I asked for some leniency toward Harborne when this was first brought to light.  I erroneously thought that the benefit of the doubt and a second chance was in order.  I suggested that he reset his illegal characters and that idea was apparently rejected with some rather vile behavior ensuing.

Later, in what appeared to be a genuine attempt to do the right thing, he listed the illegal characters, most of which had already been listed by me.  I mentioned three that I suspected earlier and he admitted that those were illegal in his post through his sister.

Now, we see the following post in his empire thread in response to being exposed yet again...

And yet, there are still three illegal characters in addition to his three legal ones in his empire.  One of these illegals is still a Senator and the other two are regular members.

The three illegals aren't significantly adding to his empire score, but it looks like a kid giggling in the shadows at what he's getting away with, all the while feigning innocence.  It's nothing new.

How many "second chances" are we willing to endure?  I'm done with tolerance in this case and join the ToE and Kzinti Empire in condemning Harborne as a blatant cheater.

It appears to already have been done, however, it seems that his sister's characters were not merged onto one of his as planned. Those are the three that remain currently. However they contribute less than the SGC's lead over the Orcas at present. Something that remains in need of being dealt with to be certain, but hardly a taunt towards others given that those ones are not played by him. I'll talk to Cari about this when she gets in.

Harborne's current surge appears to be contributable entirely to his discovery of ZYWs. It looks like he deleted all of his games (he appears to have only a couple older than this week now) and has been spamming truly incredible amounts of ZYWs since Monday.

Thanks, Kryo.  Keep in mind though, that at the time of neilo's post, many of Harborne's illegal characters were still there.  Harborne removed them only after having been exposed by this thread.

The three remaining ones could have been removed from his empire as well, but he left them there.  There's a pattern that appears to indicate what kind of person we're seeing there.

I agree with Motti that the pattern of behavior reveals the character of the person behind it.  I have seen nothing to indicate any true remorse, or what could be percieved as the lessening of the intent to cheat in the future.  This is my subjective opinion of course, but I have no faith that should he discover another way to illicitly cheat, that it would not be taken advantage of.  It seems that only the fear of significant consequences has led to any positive action by Harborne.  While we cant of course mete out punishment for the expectation of further offenses, we can have some sort of reasonable determent in the form of serious penalties for cheating.

Sentient species taste better...

After reading this entire post, I have decided not to include the GSC in my Metaverse mod. I thinkit would be another punishment for Harbone. Now as for Freeman and Seeker, let continue to screw up their reputation by continuing to post and hang around Harbone.

Thank you Seth for that whonder full comment. but let me make a piont here i dispise cheters they make the hard working joe end up in the gutter i see Harbone a online freand that has an intrest in RPing thats all i was a little sipecs about his actions but still.

do you think his now cheating at MV scores insteed of the mutiple chareates now?

IE sorry about the spelling no spellcheak and i am not good at english.

We'll just have to put some work in to keep him out of the top 3. Shouldn't be hard, I doubt they let him play GC2 at day care...

 I urge people to keep this thread civil and serious, and to stick to the issue at hand.

Sentient species taste better...

Looking at the timestamps for the ZYW games, most don't seem odd at all.  ZYWs will get you to burn hot/fast...but lasting power isn't in it.

I understand this comment here has been addressed, but I just wanted to put in my 2bc on it.

I think the long delay may have been on purpose.  If they would have dealt swift action, all but Harborne would have felt satisfied and resentment between him and the rest of the community would have never had a chance fade.

By waiting and giving Harborne time to stew on this, they allowed him to attone for his actions as much as he can from his end.

This is far better for the community as a whole than the ban-hammer falling upon someone's head would.  Resentment will remain for some time, but by allow us all to resolve this, it won't last AS long.

 Forgive my ignorance (I've been out of the loop a long time), but how is this guy cheating? Something about multiple charachters? Can someone give me a quick rundown or direct me to a thread discussing it. I'm just curious.

I'd helpbut I'm busy unfortunatly

Now that's more like it. Since as I said, the bulk of his scores now look to be ligitimate ZYWs on his primary account, if you want to fight him the best thing is to play lots yourselves. He wants a war? Give him one! 

cross-quoting?

I already play a lot. ;)  I think I've accumulated more raw points than anybody in the game, ever.  But thats beside the point.  Harborne still has at least one account with 3 fake characters, the one he created for his sister.

He manipulated serial numbers to create many fake accounts and characters.  There's more info in the Cheaters thread:  https://forums.galciv2.com/310532/page/2/#replies

Sentient species taste better...

No problem with the spelling.  I think you're getting your thoughts across just fine. 

Harborne's individual scores are not in question at all.  They never were.

Standing by your friend is admirable as is Harborne's sister standing by her brother.  There's no shame or dishonor in that.  In fact, the opposite is the case and my respect for both of you has risen during this saga.  That is, as long as the cheating isn't discounted or condoned.  I don't think either of you have done that.

I don't think anyone will fault you for continuing your roleplaying with Harborne.  I don't think Seth needs to forego it either.  The roleplaying is a seperate issue entirely and it doesn't affect the Metaverse in the least.  I don't understand the draw, but it eveidently holds some value to you and Seth. 

Don't be put off by the totally seperate issue of artificially inflated empire scores.

This entire post is just childish and I'm meant to be the child here. I'll tell you what I see... I see grown men and women complaining about someone's mistakes on a gaming forum. A GAMING FORUM PEOPLE... That's all it is. 

Neilo you have been perpously going out of your way just to attack harborne and when he retaliates you pin everything of him. I've seen the other posts, Just stop it. If you don't like what he's done just leave him alone. To see all this... Nonsense from you people is making the metaverse a very unwelcoming place. One of my friends has made this comment a number of times and has now left because he couldn't put up with it. His exact words to me were, "Just reading this is making me depressed. Sorry man, I can't stand it anymore".

Just step back and see what your doing people. Not just to Harborne but to our community here. This out of control now, and it's rubbing of on many people making them feel uncomfortable and fearful that they will be next. To a newcomer it would especially be unwelcoming. So i ask, Just stop this nonsense, it's a think of the past, lets move on.

cheating is still cheating. if you invested any time or energy into MV play, you might understand why it's so irritating.

this is all in response to Harbourne's cheating, so as i see it, he's at least equally if not more reponsible for the "community" damage. your argument would be like blaming the damage to a community cause by a high crime rate on the people who were stolen from and are now complaining about it.

Seeker, sorry but i think you are way off. I'm not even going to bother to respond to your specific points so i will leave you with these thoughts and you will have to excuse it's arrogance.

I have been here in this community for well over 2 years now. I have been involved with 2 high profile empires, held a publically elected seat on the Metaverse Council and was instrumental in the creation of the Metaverse League as well as running the league for around 5 months.

If those above actions of mine do not show that i am acting on behalf of the community and not myself then you my friend are seeing what you only want to see and no words from me will help you see otherwise.

If you were to ask those here in the community that know me am i acting out of spite or to erradicate a cheater from the community then i believe i know the answer you would get and that is all that matters to me.

No, i don't like what he has done, nor Spacetimer and DJMJB. This is not a personal attack on Harborne and i think you would be hard pressed to find a post where i have personally attacked him. I would have reacted to this situation no different than if it was anyone else, it has been Harbornes reactions to me and others in this issue that has breed any ill will.

you will never forgive him will you? Even though his punishment has been delt, he has said he is sorry for his deception and he promised never to do it again. yet here you are posting about his wrong doings so everyone can point the finger and laugh... if this was a community matter it would never have gone this far. I may not be a committed player like you, but I do know when right and wrong draw the line, I've walked it many times sad to say. but posting this neilo, why? what is the point? It'll just spawn more distrust and hatred. I have tried to be neutral in this arguement, to stay out of it, but it's hard when people try and make you pick a side. it's either harborne or those convicting him.

If you feel i'm been unresonable i'm just saying how this looks from my perspective and the results I see coming. Hell I'm totally againest harbornes vowl to kill kzinti. it's offencive to Kzintipatriarch. I think it's time this comunity re-evaluates were it goes now. Role-playing and harsh competition for 1st rank have spawned the foundations of distrust and hatred among us. it's really unsettling to see people start tearing eachother up over the small things. If harborne had hacked SD or the metaverse i could understand. But for having multiple accounts? no matter how you put it, Harborne would have still had to play each game singly. if he had 1 account he would still have the same amount of games on his score wouldn't he? this is just a merging of those 3 accounts and some simple mistakes and bad choices. Nothing over offecive.

@ Seeker - You are being unreasonable.  The cheating was continuing until just a short while ago.  Your continuing to bring this up is only making things worse and making yourself look foolish.  I suggest that you drop it.

Harborne has now removed the last three illegal characters from his empire.  His sister's account has been incorporated into his own.  The matter can be considered closed unless Seeker wishes to continue his crusade.

I'm gonna agree with Motti , Seeker you are being really unreasonible.