Big Labor

The problem isn't Labour unions in general, just the oligopoly that seems to have largely risen in America. When there are many smaller unions and more specialised unions, it works better because it secures workers' rights, while not being powerful enough to play in matters they have no business in.

The problem is that it's the norm now, so it's harder for people to leave them than not. Conservatives should break away

(I know, unrealistic, easier said than done etc.)

No the oil industry is under tremendous scrunity, while big labor is NOT! this is because the Main Stream Media here in America is firmly in the pocket of the Democrats, so is big labor, so no news about it, while the oil industry is about the rightwing and therefore not favored by them Mainstream media. While the oil industry is indeed making more money than any other time in history, Unions FORCE people to pay them or NO WORK!, Plus the money the Unions collect go into the pockets of the Democratic re-election coffers.

I meant the oligopoly of labor-unions, as in very few serving a broad-audience, not the oligopoly of oil-firms (which is an entirely different problem!)

I have nothing against unions existing, and if a person feels they would do better by joining one, more power to them.  What I am against is being told I have no right to work without joining a union or worse yet, paying to the union but having no vote on what they do.

States with anti Right to Work laws abhor freedom.

Untrue. Unions often set up political action funds which are voluntary donations in which they use to lobby government.

Also some unions deal with the Republican Party. It depends on the industry. Some industries are better served by the Republican party.

Have you ever been in a union? I would agree with Khamul about small unions. There is voting on a lot of what is done, a very active participation from members concerning writing and amending constitutions and work rules, as well as in contract negotiations.

No different from being told you will lose your right to work if you try to join,organize,or simply look into activities concerning organizing labor.

Hold that thought..Very soon I think we are going to see some interesting news on just how cozy the oil industry is with a certain department of the government. I am not sure whether it will be before or after we find out that the taxpayer might be bailing out the auto industry.

Untrue!  And documented.  Unions use confuiscatory dues to further politican agendas not always in line with the contributors of the dues.

So you agree then that Closed shops are illegal? (actually they are not - they are legal coercion, whereas what you just described is illegal - do you know the differnce between legal and illegal?)

I think that unions are fine when actual employees manage it. As soon as it becomes a "paid"position and in turn an organization within the job, then the workers lose a lot of control, and the potential for corruption enters. I've never been part of a union, but my parents have. My mother was with the United Garment Workers Union of America for 25 years. Some might remember the jingle on TV in the seventies, "Look for that union label...". Well, as many may know the garment industry in the US tanked. Clothes were/are produced cheaper than the US. The US workers paid their dues (reducing their take-home pay) then got left holding the bag. My mom did get a $32 a month stipend from the union (for one year) when they tanked. I heard the union executives did quite well with their severance packages. I'm sure the US auto unions are content with driving the auto makers out of business too. They should realize when it's gone it's near impossible to get back.

Very Interesting ModMan.  I know so little about this area so I have nothing to contribute other than thanks!

It's is like we think like twins on this issue ted. Being forced to cough up money to work and having no say how the money is spent, is so Anti-American!

which part or " mostly" DID YOU NOT understand?

I believe you are talking to cloesed ears docG.

It always seems that the top gets the gravy when unions tank while the workers who have paid into such unions for decades sometimes get a polite "oh well that's the way the cookie crumbles"

As usual it depends on which side of the fence u live on. I worked in an industry that actually benefits from being unionized, but it took a lot of turbulent years to get to that point. It went from unionized to non unionized to industry sham union then back to unionized. The best years for the workers were all when they were unionized. The worst were during the period when the companies set up a sham union to keep the labor force from unionizing. In the end the industry realized that they had a better pool of more qualified labor and also that it was more cost effective to have a union administer benefit plans and training requirements for the industry as opposed to having each company administer these things independently.

You stop paying "forced dues" and then see how much you like unions.

The "forced dues" that I paid while being a union member were pennies compared to the difference I made in wages and benefits. The first thing the companies did when they broke the union was decrease wages by 35%.

Not ALL do.  I worked for a Union (partially) company.  We never broke a union.  But I can guarantee you that the stores in the same market that were not unionized got paid higher than the union ones did.

"Not ALL do.  I worked for a Union (partially) company.  We never broke a union.  But I can guarantee you that the stores in the same market that were not unionized got paid higher than the union ones did."

That is correct Not all do. There were a few in my industry that did the same. Mainly to keep the unions out, so they would adjust things as the union contracts changed, but also most of them were subsidiaries of larger corps. so there was no benefit to having a union administer plans. Things vary amongst industries so there are situations where unions aren't worthwhile and others where they are.

I think you are missing the main point, you have no say in how the money is spent politically.

There's no such thing as a perfect organization--labor, capital, religion, or governance--but you measure the benefits of being a member. Relative to unions the right to work is bogus, if a worker still benefits from the organization:it's called a free ride, which is as bad as scabbing.

Last I checked, Scabbing was a sign of healing.

If it wasn't for scabs, Milwaukee would be in a garbage disaster right now because the biggest garbage collection company's  workers are on strike.  Thank goodness for scabs!

Why should I be forced to pay a bunch of union thugs but have no voice in the union?  Like most union tactics, it is extortion.

Look at what Union did to the auto industry, took a bunch of yahoos for the most part worth around the normal 15 an hour, payed them exorbitant sums, now the industry is broken, not just because they cannot keep up with the quality of Japanese cars but even while broken the Union is demanding more money, Unions do not care if they bleed their "victims" to death, as long as they get more money.

IMO if you strike then you should be liable to lose your job, and unions should instead focus on lobbying government (if they believe health+safety laws are insufficient, for example), working with the employer to improve things for both sides, and being able to resort to 'work-by-rule' action as a method of applying pressure on the employer. Their existence distorts the market however by preventing firms from reducing wages (and in many cases forcing them to increase them at a certain percentage), as well as often resulting in higher wages than in non-unionised workforces. The problem with this of course is that you have fewer jobs, and more demand for them, and a much less flexible wage system for employers. Thus I see unions as typically selfish organisations that rob the poor to give from the rich so to speak (since they're imposing severe financial pain on the few made unemployed so that they benefit from higher wages than they otherwise would've had).

That's the point, if they all did that you would have even more unemployed, hence robbing from the poor to give to the rich - you inflict severe penalties on a few people (no income) so that you can get a slightly higher income. A decent paying job is one which pays the market wage, hence you don't need a union for it.

All levels of business are just as important as any other.  If one isn't doing their job, all of the levels suffer.  There is no reason to romanticize or make heroes out of any links in a long chain.  They all have their part to play, and all have to work or there is no work to be done.