No single pick skills plz

I personally hope the powerful ranged spells don't lead the target when you click someone, and they can target the ground, or at least the auto-lead just doesn't work well and it's better to target the ground.
That way if you want to hit someone moving more accurately you have to aim ahead of them manually, clicking the ground.

If i understand u right ze0, or you dont want the "click with the mouse on the skill" type of skills?
Thats sounds good. ( i hate when you have the right timing to kill some1, so u move to the skill, with the mouse. takes 1 sec... and in that sec the enemys is gone or out of range or something.

To Stardock & GPG: Plz make some customisable hotkeys for your spells/abbilitys. And perhaps other stuff :CONGRAT: But im in the BETA, so lets see what stuff im talkig about, and i'll give u some feedback. The game looks awesome. :LOL: 

Obviously noobs should get pwned by the more experienced, and rightly so, (especially considering that if everything works out as it should, this wouldn't be a problem in ranked as noobs would face noobs at the bottom of the ladder while pros would fight other pros at the top.)

But I don't think there should be certain 'pro' demigods, and 'noob' demigods. In that certain demigods would be harder to play effectively and would be crap unless in the hands of a seasoned vet. Rather, all demigods should be somewhat effective in anybody's hands. it's just that a vet will be able to pwn a good bit harder with said demigods.

Innociv has a good point. Skills should be ground target, soo u need to calculate how opponent will move. Or some other innovative way to make the game tense

Mize^Demigod an RTS type of game without hotkeys can`t work. Ofc they are gonna put some hotkeys game devolopers aren`t idiots.

SHOKK im not saying there should be easy and hard to play demigods, they should all be hard to play. But in limits, we dont want of it to be boring and too irritating.

Simply make the game intense and skills that are worth mastering

I understand what you're saying since i play dota too, and heros can be really fun and dynamic with skills like pudge or priestess of the moon. Heroes with all point and click moves are pretty static (I'm looking at you zeus. . .-dota hero).

i think innociv has a neat idea on paper but it wouldn't work out great in the game... just my thoughts. I'm really good at dota and i could probably get used to pro point and clicking ahead, but i like having fun and not having to try to hard :p

There is a custom map that uses similar concepts in Warcraft 3 called 'Warlocks'. The projectiles move slow enough that they are easily dodgeable, but the arena is small enough that you still must use precise movements.

Meh, look at WoW, you don't need to guess where your opponent is going and there's still an easy way to see wether someone is spending 24/7 in Warsong Gulch and someone who just drops by.
I'm just saying it's possible to make a difference between a new player and an experienced player without having extreme clicking skills

that analogy about wow made me wonder something...
i wonder if demigod will be placed more like wow or dota in interface/controls...
we'll just have to see in the final version

From what we've seen so far, I can't imagine we'll control demigods with zqsd. Of course, I'm just guessing but I'll be really surprised otherwise.

It's a misconception that there is no skill involved in target-lock and fire off abilities style games. You still have to know what ability is useful at what time, you need to know what abilities you should or can counter, which you should ignore, which you can break line of sight or range on...

It's an elitist mindset that brings this about, where they're decrying a game's lack of required skill, usually while simultaneously abusing people who... aren't as skilled as them. Even though the game apparently requires no skill.

Someone who plays a lot of Demigod is almost certainly going to be better than someone who does not. The same is true of most games. The key is to provide the depth of gameplay the dedicated folks will enjoy while still letting everyone else have a good time playing the game.
That doesn't require one very specific style of ability usage.

^I agree.

Although I am hoping for a small twist in skill usage, the old way (click and sometimes, click on the target) gets a bit old. I personally enjoyed drawing the signs with B&W for miracles.

For example, to use a wood miracle, you had to draw the following picture (god, I suck at textart xD):

----------------------------------------------------/
................................................................../
\---------------------------------------------------
\\
---------------------------------------------------/
................................................................../
---------------------------------------------------
\
\
---------------------------------------------------


Something along those lines.
Anyway, by drawing those signs, you could cast spells without selecting them first. I don't know if it would fit for Demigod but I kinda like the idea of doing something in order to cast a spell

edit: I need the dots the keep the slashes at the right spot

Edit: Ok, I can't draw it out
Let's just say you need to draw a simple image to cast a spell, ok?:P

Shadowgandor, Given how Demigod will be controlled drawing anything wouldn't work well. From what I assume the game to play like, it would be more like Guild wars in the click and move, so drawing a spell would make your Demigod look... well, somewhat mentally impaired

basically what I was saying.

Mize, that isn't what he's talking about.

Also, they should be EASY TO LEARN, but hard to master.
You can still click on someone to shoot a projectile spell right at someone, but it would probably be more accurate if you thought about how you aimed it.

Well if any of you have played Supcom and faught 2 ACU's against each other.. that's similar to what I imagine will happen.
Their auto targetting aims ahead of where someone WOULD be if they kept moving in the same direction.

People dance their Acu's around so they're harder to hit, and move in and out from behind cover.

If someone is moving in and out of behind cover it would keep shooting at their cover, which is something you obviously wouldn't do with shooting manual.

Or you got in close where someone couldn't get out of the way fast enough.



As long as most projectiles don't move really fast then manual targeting at the ground can be much better. The auto-target doesn't understand the possible paths someone can take (it might shoot right off at some object by someone that they couldn't even be able to move in the path of) and doens't understand there being stuff in the way.
With your human brain you can do a better job of guessing where someone will move based on where they actually can possibly go, and where they will want to go.

You might have sight of someone because of your allies and hit someone right when they move out from behind something, when they don't have LoS and couldn't see you or your projectile coming out from the other side.



And you know.. in my opinion the ACU fights in supcom where the best part of the game. They where soooo cool to watch.

Well, I didn't really mean to have a system exactly like that, but more like something special.
Depending on weither you can control your minions or not, I would like a skill system that takes a bit of skill to use efficiently.
The reloading system of Gears of War for example, you had the option to just reload or try your luck/skill and try to get a perfect reload with the use of timing.

Let's say you want to heal your minions. You could just press the skill and your demigod would use a healing spell, but you could also try to get a good/great timing cast (or whatever you want to call it) to make the spell a lot more effective.

Meh, I'm not sure if it would work for Demigod, but still, I would like something extra for spellcasting, optional but rewarding.

Just spewing out an idea.

I personally hope they are very very careful with these kinds of skills if they add them.

If you need little to no tactical consideration when using the skill, like the good ol' Counter-Strike bunny-jumping, Starcraft terran healer microing, or timing challenges like Tekken combos, then it will be just another user interface hurdle made hard on purpose. IMO, the Tekken combos (fun as they are - don't misunderstand me on that!) basically have the same gameplay value as using a cruelly designed keyboard that requires you to shout out the key you're pressing. In French. It will not separate a somewhat skillful player from a very skillful player, only a new player from a player who has shown a minimum of patience learning the skill.

As long as there is at least a small element of tactical consideration when using the skill, it's another issue; for example rocket jumping (like in Team Fortress 2 and others) is basically a reflex-and-timing skill, but both the difficulty and the success/failure risks are determined by tactics, i.e. where you are on the map and whether enemy players are likely to shoot you off course or bump into you.

Demigod =/= DotA

(AKA Demigod IS NOT DotA)

Guild Wars had auto-target and it takes more skill than any other RPG..

It takes fast reactions, good intuition, good targetting, you have to be good at guessing what sort of mana the enemy monks are at, coordinate with your team to make sre everyone is in range, make sure everyone has enough mana, know they don't have cooldown, decide what objectives to take and how many people to use, what sort of position that'll put you i if the remaining team is doing 6vs8, a hundred other things. You needed a good player playing "leader" that could keep track of every ally and every enemy and how the situation on the map is while still fighting, as most players could not do that themselves.


I still want ground targeting projectile spells to usually be the best option though.



And Guild Wars IS a great game to look at. It is the most competitive RPG that has been made. Demigod is aiming to be a highly competitive RTS-RPG hybrid.

I can't understand why it can be a mix of most everything that everyone has posted.

Not going out on a limb here, but using DOTA as an example, there are spells that are simply activated (rot, invoker, luna's ult, CM's ult), clicked then target selected (multitude of these, any direct damage spell that has to have a unit to select), clicked then area or target selected (hook, AOE stuns, AOE effects, blink). Each of these have a use.

It doesn't take alot of skill to activate a spell. The skill would come to play in choosing when to activate, managing your mana/energy resources when using the spell, and when to deactivate or not use it.

There is slightly more skill in clicking a spell then selecting a unit as a target. First, you need to be able to select the unit. Spells that target the nearest unit/demigod would fall into the previous category. You must also consider range (whether you have to move closer or farther away to cast), casting time, channel or no channel, etc. Other things that must be considered are the same as above, managing your mana/energy resources, when to cast, etc.

In some cases, the third category, selecting a spell, then clicking an area or target unit can be the most difficult to apply. These are where slow projectiles come into play. If you target the unit, perhaps they will move out of the way by the time the spell reaches them. If you target the ground, you can predict where to target. If its instant cast and instant hit, then none of that matters. Again, when to cast, managing your resources, choosing targets all come to play.

I don't really like the drawing skills ideas, but that may just be me. It just seems to bring more of an arcade feel into the game that perhaps I dislike (never could master that ho do ken in Streetfighter every time left down left-down+punch). Basically your asking the player to not only know how to manage his spells, when to use them, what combination to use, but your also asking him to have the physical dexterity and nimbleness of mouse skills to do them. I don't see this happening, but just my opinion.

Also, I think the whole "Drawing skills by drawing them" might make the game a little biased to favor folks like me with my little Wacom Graphics tablet right here, Therefore, I would like skills like this

Yeah, and you're right, drawing to cast is just dumb.

There should be skills where you just press the hotkey and then click a target, like say an instant-hit lighting skill, like you said.
But for projectile spells, you should be able to target the ground.. and probably work better that way.
So the oPs no "click and pick" would make no sense. How are you supposed to aim an instant-hit lightnign spell.. are you going to forbid clicking on people and you have to aim at the ground between them and yourself? that'd be silly. There should be all kinds.
The way you target with a skill is a strength/weakness of it. A lightning strike is going to be instant hit, impossible to miss, unlike a slow moving fireball. So the fireball should be more powerful.

I didn't like guild wars

GW was a very love-it-or-hate-it kind of game.

This is possibly the best thread on these forums so far.

ze0 hit the nail on the head.

I just can't get no love. Tyo credits TBO, Poita credits Ze0. No love for Herr Burninator. I posted nearly the same thing but mine was more detailed.

Of course now my post is deleted and all that remains is a post referencing my earlier post... for some reason