That is kind of non-sensical.  I guess Canada could have justifiably invaded the US during the Detriot riots when force was used to put them down?  You will also find a lot of people, who to this day maintain it was ethnic cleansing going on.

Good point thanks.

Okay, prove it!

I've provided plenty of info with links to it as well!! Georgia attacked an area that was covered under a signed treaty, in which Georgian, Russian, and South Ossetian peacekeepers were all sharing duties. 10 Russian peacekeepers were killed, which technically is an act of war against Russia (but lets not split hairs here)

On a side note you still have not produced which Russian/South Ossetian official gave the orders for the supposed ethnic cleansing you allege Georgia was 'defending' itself against. And as a further side note, I never stated that I knew a particular individual who 'ordered' Georgia to attack (other than their president), but, considering the situation it makes sense that the U.S would have to know Georgia was going to attack and at least condone the action-

A very good article that summarizes most of my points (and is yet more supporting evidence, this is the third link I've posted while you've posted none) is here-

http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2008/08/crisis_in_the_c.php

I must have missed your proof. The links you provided were a letter to NATO by Russia followed by the former and last leader of the USSR, who is supporting the rebirth of the Soviet Union. You did not provide any third party, (news organizations) you take their word at face value but refuse the same for the American position. For that you want other people to verify the American statements and even when that is produced you still dismiss it. I only asked for the same proof you ask for. I don’t trust the Russians. They have murdered people all over the world who have disagreed with them. They no longer have a free press, since they have killed so many people in the press. They don’t keep their word and they have no problem destroying innocent lives to reach their goals. Everything that America gets accused of has been done by Russia and no one seems to notice this.

I offer a former ambassador who was on the scene, and reported what he saw. He is not a republican, and has worked for Presidents Carter and Clinton and has no love for the republicans or our president. This is an objective person in my view.

Georgia is a nation not a province or state of Russia. What right does Russia have to say how the citizens of Georgia are treated? I ask this because this is a question you have asked in the past.

Didn’t know you wanted this information. I don’t know it because I am repeating what was reported on the news.

Yes, I read that article and have not seen any proof only his opinion on the facts and actions that have happened.

Racial discrimination
Georgia contends that 'Russia - through its state organs, state agents and other officials, through the South Ossetian and Abkhaz separatist forces and other agents supports and directs, is responsible for serious violations of its fundamental obligations under the CERD'. According to Georgia, Russia "violated its obligations under the CERD during three distinct phases of its interventions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia in the period from 1990 to August 2008." 

 http://www.rnw.nl/internationaljustice/courts/ICJ/080813-georgia

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/ossetia-admits-to-ethnic-cleansing-in-georgia/

http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2008/08/russians-sponsoring-ethnic-cleansing-in.html

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080812/890/twl-russia-committing-ethnic-cleansing-i.html

http://gl.mimino.org/2008/08/ethnic-cleansing-in-georgia.html

http://ca.keegy.com/tag/ethnic-cleansing/

http://sayanythingblog.com/mobile/entry/times_of_london_russia_ordered_ethnic_cleansing_in_georgia/

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3555800,00.html

http://story.russiaherald.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/723971d98160d438/id/393109/cs/1/

you only saw what happened this month not what has gone on for the last 11or 12 years.

Ossetia admits to Ethnic Cleansing in Georgia

Yet you claim that the Georgians are doing this. I would suggest you read the non communist papers. Only Russia is claiming defense of their "citizens". If Georgia was wrong why are all the nations of the world supporting Georgia? Why is Poland suddenly in love with the missile defense shield offered by the US when they were against it last month?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5617271&page=1

Yes, the poor Russians are worried that a defense shield in Poland will threaten them. It seems that anyone that can defend themselfs against Russia is a threat to Russia.

When i doubt, read Michael Totten:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0820mt.html

This is bad for them, only one country has the ability to support them, USA, and we are going to get a wimp for a president. At least that seems to be the Russian calculation. Wait a minute that was the same calculation Bin Laden made. OOPS!

The Russians are a lot smarter than Bin Laden. They could pull it off.

Unfortunately the Soviet Union is gone. For all the terror it brought to the world, at least we knew what its ideology was (and that it had an ideology). With Putin's Russia we know nothing. They are not trying to bring communism to the world, they are jut out for power. Threatening them with MAD won't help as they are not worried about their people but willing to call a bluff.

The Russian leadership are not idiots and they are not deluded. Bin Laden was both.

Unfortunately while George Bush turned out to have excellent advisors (Powell, Rice, Blair), Obama really is a wimp.

For all his talk about working with European allies, does anybody here think he will listen to the British like Bush has?

I think you are wrong here. Bin Laden planned on Mr. Gore becoming president meaning he was going to get another four years to plan the next attack after 9/11 while America under the same leadership would file law suits, and arrest warrants, and then fire some cruise missiles at empty bases. The fly in the ointment was the election of Mr. Bush. Who jumped in with both feet and scattered them before they were ready to mess with us again.

Russia on the other hand is deluded into thinking that they can recapture the former Soviet Union only this time make everyone Russian citizens and claim the land as Russia’s rather than as separate states. This is what they believed was their downfall along with giving them freedom. They spent the last decade slowly destroying the concept of freedom in Russia so the people are begging for a strong leader. One that can tell them what to do, what to think, and leave the hard stuff to the government. Now that this has been accomplished they are stretching out their arms and starting to bring in the countries that truly belong to Russia.

A President Gore would have reacted just like President Bush did.

Congress doesn't have to wait for the president to take charge. And Tony Blair was there anyway. No American president would have explained to Mr. Blair that there would be no reaction to the attack.

Bin Laden was deluded. Even if _only_ Britain had reacted to the attack on NATO, he would have lost Afghanistan.

I have heard Al Gore speak in the 90s. Regarding Iraq and other wars he was as hawkish as the best of them. He only became utterly useless after he lost the presidential elections in 2000.

Bill Clinton was not an idiot. He chose a vice president who was a) more boring than Clinton and someone who could have been the bad cop if necessary.

I don't know if Al Gore would have handled the sitiation as well as George Bush (and I doubt it), but the US would be in Afghanistan and most likely in Iraq too. (Iraq was a pet project not only of Bush Junior but also Clinton/Gore.)

The only major difference would have been that the left wouldn't have known against whom to protest when they started to worry about their favourite misogynist nutter and their pet fascist dictator that nobody must touch.

Bin Laden didn't "plan" on Al Gore becoming president. The 911 thing was planned long before it was known who would run for president and I doubt Bin Laden knew whether the attack would hit before or after 2000. It could have happened during Clinton's time. (And boy would he have bombed Afghanistan for this!)

They are not deluded. They can do it.

I disagree here. President Clinton allowed four attacks on the US and did next to nothing each time. Later we find out they were all planned by Al Qaeda. Black Hawk down, was planned by AQ. The twin bombings of our embassies in Africa, planned by AQ. The bombing of our warship USS Cole, killing 17 sailors, planned by AQ. The bombing of the World Trade Tower, planned by AQ. Bin Laden was offered to America several times and each time it was just before an attack against us not just our interests abroad. All during President Clinton tenure, and not once did we go after him or AQ. Vice-President Gore was briefed on each and every attack, there is no record of him even suggesting going after AQ or disagreeing with the Presidents lack of action. Based on that what would lead you to believe that a President Gore would have acted differently?

During his campaign for president he never stated that AQ was a threat he was more interested in global warming, touting how he and the president had made a great economy for America even though we were already showing signs of recession.

I would like to believe that Mr. Gore would have acted the same way but there is no evidence that he would have done so. Not once from 1992 to 2000 had Mr. Gore said anything about AQ. Then when we were attacked he was still mum but when we went into Iraq that is when he found his voice. That is when he opposed the president not supported the president. I just went and did a search looking for anything publicly stated by Mr. Gore and AQ and nothing came up until after 2002.

I fear you are correct, the EU is powerless as well as gutless. America has the troops but not the political will to fight Russia. This is a perfect time to start a mess because we are still months away from the elections and won’t have a new leader in place until January.

Clinton certainly did carry out a cruise missile attack on the AQ camps in Afghanistan during his presidency. We were also covertly attempting to get at him as well as collecting evidence to prove his involvement with various terrorist activities.

He actually did have several speeches which included the topic of terrorism.  Al-Queda was not a huge buzzword back then, in particular because the relationship amongst various cells had not been established at that point in time. A lot of what is known now came from info and prisoners seized during the initial attacks in Afganistan. Gore would have gone into Afghanistan. There is plenty of information floating around pointing to policy on this issue that was implemented during the Clinron/Gore Administration. Although the elimination of Sadam Hussein was put into policy during the Clinton Admin, its hard to say what would have happened in that regard. With Rumfeld out of the picture I think we would either not be there today or would have let things in Afganistan progress further so we wouldnt have gone into Iraq with a shortage of troops.

As if we're not stretched thin now. I guess the draft is always an option....What the hell that will remedy the unemployment problem in a hearbeat.

Nice try, we have less than 300k troops in Iraq we have 2 million active duty servicemen. Stretched thin you say? That does not include the reservists or the inactive reserves. A pity you don’t know this but you still think we are losing the war I guess.

November 4, 1992 Governor Bill Clinton wins the Electoral College and the presidency with 43% of the popular vote.

February 26, 1993 when a car bomb was detonated below Tower One of the World Trade Center in New York City. The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. They received financing from Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle. In March 1994, four men were convicted of carrying out the bombing. Though it was known by intelligence officials that they belonged to the group Al-Qaeda nothing was done to hunt down the group or its leader. People were arrested and convicted so the case was closed.

April 19, 1993 the Clinton administration assaults the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas and burn 76 people including 21 children to death. President Clinton blames it all on Attorney Genera, Janet Reno.

May 28, 1993 President Clinton passes the largest tax increase in world history.

June, 1993 President Clinton expands his Somalia mission to feed the hungry into nation building and police action but does not properly arm and equip the troops.

June, 1993 Failed New York City landmark bomb plot. When allowed the FBI can do some great work.

October, 1993 Al-Qaeda linked terrorist attack US troops in Mogadishu. 18 soldiers die in the “Black Hawk Down” scenario. But take out thousands of Somali terrorists. President Clinton responds by pulling out US troops. Bin Laden later said this event convinced him that the American soldier is a paper tiger and inspired the 9/11 attacks.

April, 1994 the Rwandan genocide begins. Despite systematic rape campaigns and ethnic murders, President Clinton and his administration do nothing to stop the slaughter.

October 21, 1994, the United States and North Korea signed the "Agreed Framework", whereby North Korea agreed to freeze its plutonium production program in exchange for fuel, economic cooperation, and the construction of two modern nuclear power plants powered by light-water reactors. Eventually, North Korea's existing nuclear facilities were to be dismantled, and the spent reactor fuel taken out of the country.

December 11, 1994 a small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack to blow up a dozen planes over the Pacific Ocean in one day. This plan was later changed to the attacks of 9/11.

October 17, 1995 President Clinton says, “Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at the budge because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them too much, too.”

In conjunction with several other Islamic militant leaders, bin Laden issued two fatwa in 1996 and then again in 1998 that Muslims should force the United States and its allies to withdraw their military forces from the Arabian peninsula, by attacking American military and civilian targets.

February, 1996 Sudan’s religious leader Hassan Turabi, writes President Clinton offering to turn over Bin Laden. (Think about this not in hindsight but in actuality. A man with a paramilitary organization publically states that he is going to attack US interests abroad, and soon after the chief mullah of the country this man is living in is offering him to you.)  President Clinton refuses, fearing the US has no legal reason to take custody of him. (Bin Laden is now linked to two terrorist attacks on Americans)

In May 1996, the Sudanese capitulated to U.S. pressure and asked Bin Laden to leave, despite their feeling that he could be monitored better in Sudan than elsewhere.

June 25, 1996 Terrorists bomb the US military’s Khobar Tower barracks in Saudi Arabia. This has now been linked to Bin Laden. President Clinton does nothing at the time.

August, 1996 Hassan Turabi again offers to turn over Bin Laden. President Clinton does not accept the offer again. (Bin Laden is now linked to four terrorist attacks on Americans)

November 5, 1996 President Clinton wins reelection but falls short of winning half the votes cast.

April, 1997 President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir of Sudan “offered the arrest, and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed in Egypt’s Islamic Jihad, Iran’s Hezbollah, and the Palestinian Hamas,” According to regional expert Mansor Ijaz. President Clinton ignores him. (Bin Laden is now linked to three and one suspected terrorist attacks on Americans and just maybe Sudan knows something we don’t know, and being or wanting to be a friend to us is trying to help us.)

February, 1998 Sudan’s intelligence chief, Gutbi al-Mahdi wrote directly to the FBI to offer Bin Laden. (Bin Laden is now linked to three terrorist attacks on Americans and just maybe Sudan knows something we don’t know and maybe they want to be our friend.)

Bin Laden left for Afghanistan, taking with him Ayman Zawahiri, considered by the U.S. to be the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks; Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, who traveled frequently to Germany to obtain electronic equipment for Al Qaeda; Wadih El-Hage, Bin Laden's personal secretary and roving emissary, now serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his role in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya; and Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Saif Adel, also accused of carrying out the embassy attacks.

August 7, 1998 hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous car bomb explosions at the United States embassies in the East African capital cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya. The attacks, linked to local members of the al Qaeda terrorist network headed by Osama bin Laden, brought bin Laden and al Qaeda to international attention for the first time as far as the news media are concerned. Bin Laden was then indicted in United States federal court for his alleged involvement in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, and is on the US Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list.

August 20, 1998 someone in the Clinton administration discovered that Osama Bin Laden might be in the Sudan. With great decisiveness the President ordered the immediate bombing of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant. The plant had no connections to Bin Laden and the county of Sudan had been trying to give Bin Laden to us for years. Oh by the way, in a totally unrelated story, Monica Lewinsky testified in front of the grand jury the next day. Who needed Sudan as a friend anyway?

August 21, 1998 President Clinton in another bold decisive move ordered missile strikes against Al Qaeda terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. A little too late since Bin Laden and his troops had moved to Afghanistan and were now moving to Iraq after he was kicked out of Sudan. The camps were mostly empty but they did get 34 people not members of AQ, But as a presidential hopeful suggested doing the same thing may I remind all that Pakistan screamed its outrage at the US violation of its airspace, wonder if they will get mad when President Obama invades their country? Is that not an act of war from a man that wants peace?

After the missile attacks Osama bin Laden pledged to attack the U.S. again. Ayman al-Zawahiri made a phone call to a Newsweek reporter, stating that "The war has only just begun; the Americans should now await the answer."

December 16, 1998 President Clinton attacks Iraq. In a totally unrelated story the House leaders delay the impeachment debate until the dust settles from the preemptive war started by the President.

December 14, 1999 Ahmed Ressam is arrested. His plan to blow up L.A. international airport on New Year’s Eve. Look up the “Millennium bomber.” Though the Clinton administration tried to claim credit for stopping this terrorist attack it was later discovered that a customs agent busted him when he tried to cross the border from Canada into the US.

All but one AQ attack happened during the Clinton/Gore administration. It was widely known that AQ had targeted America during that time and all you can do is point to some vague speeches on the topic of terrorism? I do not believe you, show me.

Put it all into perspective. Your comparing apples and oranges. We have about 1.4 active military personnel but 1.4 active duty servicemen is not 1.4 million available deployable troops. Gates is currently awaiting troop requirement estimates to be made by commanders in Iraq to see what we will have available for increases in deployments ton Afghanistan. This in itself shows that there is very little if any available wiggle room as far troop availability is concerned. Never mind what non personnel resources would be needed to start another conflict in a different region.

I have no idea whether this war will be "won". Seeing how the Iraqi Oil Ministry backed off recently from signing no bid contracts for their oil industry development with western oil cos. though I would say things arent going as well as some had hoped or claim.

I personally dont really care what you believe. There are plenty of books available regarding these issues so I can only  suggest that you read some of them.

Average Available Yearly Military Manpower: 4,180,074 but this includes the ready reserves but not all of the inactive reserves. This is a number that the government is comfortable with. What this means is that given 180 days the government can field 75% of this number with the rest to follow within 90 days. If the draft kicks in we have 60 million to draw from and another 35 million if you include women. Ramping up will take time given WWII as an example we went from a peace time military of less than a hundred thousand or so to five million by the end of the war, that is five million trained troops in four years. If we go to war with someone like Russia, or China we will go nuclear long before we hit three million trained troops.

The figures come from the CIA Fact Book 2008 This is used by military as well as civilian planners. The total number of people we can draw from is higher but when you factor in women getting pregnant, and people opposed to the war, and people that are vital to national security that can't go into the military without causing problems at home, as well as the sick and infirmed, the numbers are a low 90 to 95 million potential war fighters.

Why dont u go to the DoD website.    They have better numbers.  the only way ur 4 mill plus number comes close is if ur adding in NON ELIGIBLE reservists.

I would suggest you do some more research. Non-eligible reservists were discounted. Do some more study and you will learn a lot that you have been missing.

My numbers are off the DoD website.....Current to June 2008

The numbers you are using are wrong for several reasons which is why I suggested you look a little deeper. You choose not to and came up with the same answer.

There are 1 million 340 thousand active duty troops and we are building that up to 2.5 million, there are so many in the active reserves that we are ramping up in Iraq and Afghanistan and another bunch in the ready reserve, then you have the inactive reserve. It is the inactive reserve where you are getting your non-eligible people from because the inactive reserve includes every living person that served in the military that reached the rank of E-6 and above. To give you an example there was a person that was a warrant officer in the army. When the military needed a specific talent the tapped him and brought him back into the army. He was the only person still living that had first hand knowledge of that area they needed help. He was 86 year old WWI vet and they kept him in the active army for 36 months. This was at the start of the Vietnam conflict. Did he go into combat? HELL NO! But he was reactivated for three years while he trained people to do what he did. So not everyone in the inactive reserves are coming back. Even with this exclusion think of all the people who have served in the military that are still between the ages of 25 and 59 that have exited the military. I am in my 50’s and if the Corps calls I have to go back, bullet holes, explosive concussion injuries, bad heart, bad eyes and all. I may only be in an admin position but with me there I free up an expert to go into the field and do what I used to do while I train others to do the same thing.

This is why we have available for military duty a number larger than the claim of the DOD which is only going to count the active duty and active reserves, a number over 2 million, while the CIA fact book counts every person fit for duty but not old broken down Marines like me. When I get the call you will know they have scraped the bottom of the barrel lifted the barrel up and found me.