Take an Inch, take a mile, take a country, take a Continent

Remember, we live in a world where people don't wanna believe the good guys are the good guys and wanna believe the bad guys are actually the victims of the "good guys".

I love my children, my family, my friends and my fellow Americans and would never want to wish any harm upon them. But there are times when fire must burn down an entire forest so that a new, better one can grow. I think it's time for Obama (the fire) to consume what is left of this country so that once he is done (4 years from now) we can finally grown a new country. Let him win, let him show everyone just how wrong they really are, sometimes it takes a bump in the head to get people to wake up and smell the coffee for once.

Well Charles, you may just get your wish and maybe in four years we'll be just like England.  My neighbor just moved here from England.  He says it's really really bad there because of the influx of Muslims.  Is that what you want?

If so, vote in Obama.  You'll get your wish. 

Be careful for what you wish for. 

 

 

 

I am afraid four years of higher taxes, more social programs, and hot air, coupled with making nice with a people that truly want to exterminate us will finish America off for good.

I just don't see why people feel the need to force their religous beliefs on other people.  Why can't people just believe what they believe and leave other people alone?  Why do people feel the need to make their government and society all about THEIR religion? 

Can I get an AMEN! Just kidding! This has a ton of truth in it. I live just 21 miles from Lodi Ca. where there already is a Mosque that has produced two Now Convicted Muslim Terrorists.

Because their "good book" the Holy Koran" tells them to either convert the infidel or put them to the sword. {paraphrased}

The Christian Bible says much the same thing. The bottom line is that this is why there needs to be a separation of Church and State. This is the type of thing that our founding fathers were trying to prevent when they created the bill of rights. The recognized how dangerous it would be if Church doctine (no matter the religion) were allowed to create State Laws. Government needs to remain Secular, and that is part of the reason that Britain is having problems with this, their Government is anything but Secular. If America isn't careful the same thing could happen here, this is why we need to enforce the separation of church and state now more than ever.

Charles, ask yourself when the last time a shot in the arm was just that when it comes to the gov't. Getting a wake up call is one thing but when it comes the gov't giving a little puts you in their death grip. How many things has the gov't given back once it's taken it away?

Interesting article, Moderateman. As an aside, I'd like to point out that if this kind of 'peaceful' march occurred in Canada it could be prosecuted under hate-crimes legislation. The same legislation that has been insinuated to be an evil means of the government muzzling free speech. I'm not aware of the laws in Great Britain, but it sounds to me like these folks are just exercising their right to freedom of speech! (at least, this is the argument that's been used against me whenever I've argued in favor of hate crimes legislation)

No, it does not. The bible says to love your enemies and do good to those who harm you. The Koran is submission by sword. In Christianity it's to win one over by love. Big diff.



I'm still trying to figure out this whole hate-crime legislation thing. It only seems definied for certain types. For instance whenever a homosexual gets hurt or killed it's deemed a hate crime. Last week in the paper there was an article about a man who went into a church and shot a bunch of people and they are saying it is considered a hate crime. The reason is because this particular church is pro-homosexual.

Well right next to that article was another crime in RI where a teenager hacked both of his parents to death with a hoe. It never mentioned hate at all. So does that mean this kid didn't hate his parents when he chopped them to bits? But this stranger did when he went into a church with a gun?

Boggles my mind.

KFC, if you are talking about the Unitarian church (Wisconsin?) that one was deemed hate crime because the guy was shouting obscenities about gays and lesbians.

I don't want Obama to win, I don't want all the damage he could instill to happen. But my frustration with those who think he will fix everything makes me wanna have him win just to prove them wrong, just so they can realize just how dangerous his policies can be to this country.

I didn't hear that. I heard he didn't like the church because it had gone "liberal." But did hear that they were accepting of the lifestyle so I guess that was part of the liberal part.

So if you shout obscenities then it's deemed a hate crime? I'm guessing (I'm no expert on murder) many people shout obsenities when they are killing others. I'm sure the teenager wasn't quiet when he was killing his parents. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.

What about those times no one is around to hear them shout.....? Does that mean it's not a hate crime?  ;p 

Thing is no one has said they shouldnt be allowed to say what they are saying. What is being said is that they are ungrateful, and should have never been invited into the country in the first place if they say they want to take it over.

 

No, it doesn't. This is a flat out lie.

There are many Muslims who do follow the idea of convert or die, but I personally know a few who do not believe in this, say that their holy book doesn't teach this, and who think these "Muslims" are crazy people (their words).

I equate these hate-filled people with the Christians who bombed abortion clinics. They're crazy people, plain and simple. The world is full of both hateful people and crazy people. As a matter of fact I am almost convinced I am the only sane person left on the planet and I am not even 100% sure about me.

I'd say show me, but then this would turn out to go in a direction MM doesn't wish it to go. But it's not a lie. There is no place in scripture that speaks of convert or die.

You have to take things out of context to say Christianity was propogated by the sword as Islam is doing. I know you're speaking of OT happenings but they did not kill the enemies for that reason. It's totally diff than forcing one to believe as you do or kill them. Even in the OT wars, that was never an issue.



I agree but that doesn't negate the fact that the Koran says otherwise. It does teach this.



I agree but I have to question their Christianity. I mean one can say they are Christian but their actions are suppose to be the evidence. So if they're bombing clinics, how does that measure up to the command to "love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us?" I hate the thought of baby killing, but I would never kill another to make things better. Two wrongs never make it right.

It's not the same with the Muslims. While I agree there are peaceful nice Muslims, their Koran and belief system is all built around conversion of the world or die eventually. It's all about submission to Allah. Their submission and our submission.

As for the insanity part, I agree...it's work to stay sane in an insane world isn't it?

Hmm, I think you've gotten a bit confused. Perhaps you should go back and re-read this thread. I was saying that the statement that the Christian bible says "convert or die" is a lie. You seem to have misread something here. We're actually in agreement on this (for once :LOL:)

Cheap shot.


Whoaa...you make it sound that leaving the idyllic days of Bush will be the judgement day!



Hang on now--take a deep breath. When the world's oil reserve is finally depleted SANITY will return.

yep you're right.....I thought you were saying the opposite of what you were really saying....my bad!



ha! Yep.



it ain't gonna happen.

Which? Sanity or oil--or both?

Short term - both, long term - sanity.

Really? What were the crusades then? Christianity has a very violent past where they attempted to spread the religion thru force (and in many cases were successful). And as a little aside here on "love your enemies", then what is with the bombings and violent attacks on abortion clinics? Am I to believe that it is simply "tough love"? And for the record I didn't say that the Christian bible taught the whole "covert or die" ideology that is in the Koran, merely that some of the teachings in the bible can be interpreted as such.


On another note:



It's not about whether or not you "hate" your victim, in general hate crimes are deemed such when the person commiting the crime does so out of "hate" for a particular group of people and not necessarily for the victim(s). So in the case of the kid who hacked up his parents it wasn't a hate crime because he didn't do it based on a particular group associated with his parents whereas the guy who shot up the church did so because they had "liberal" views that he "hated".

they were NOT acting on behalf of Christ but themselves. They were acting out of greed for power, pride and whatever else they were motivated to do what they did. But it was NOT in the name of Christ.



No. Christianity doesn't. Men who violated the laws of Christianity did.



No, anyone can call themselves Christian. It doesn't mean they are. They are not working on behalf of God. It goes against all that was taught by Christ. In fact, if someone is out there bombing clinics I would have to question their sanity...as well as their
Christianity.



ok, let's go with that then. What about when the Amish kids got shot up by complete strangers in PA a few years ago? Was that considered a "hate crime?" Or how about Columbine when all the Christian kids got targeted? Was that a hate crime cuz I don't remember hearing this term applied to this group of victims.





well you can interpret 1+1=5 too...doesn't make it true. In order to interpret something as such, means to leave out a whole lot of other stuff that says otherwise.

I realize wikipedia may not be the best reference in the world but it is easily available (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades). To quote the first few lines from the entry: "The Crusades were a series of military campaigns of a religious character waged by much of Christian Europe against external and internal opponents. Crusades were fought mainly against Muslims, though campaigns were also directed against pagan Slavs, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians and political enemies of the popes.[1] Crusaders took vows and were granted an indulgence for past sins."

I don't know about you but that certainly sounds to me like the Crusades were carried out in the name of Christ in an effort to stop the spread of other religions in favor of Christianity. I suppose you could interpret it as greed for power, but the base of that power was their view of Christianity.




Couldn't the same be said of Muslims? There are plenty of peaceful Muslims out there so why you can make the same exceptions for the violent ones that you do for the violent people that call themselves Christian?



But isn't that kinda the point here. The extremeists are "intepreting" some of the teaching to be violent. There are plenty, some could argue a majority, that "intepret" the same teachings in a non-violent nature. Both parties come from the same place. And again you make an exception for violent Christians why not make the same exception for violent Muslims?





I honestly don't remember what the given reasons for the assault were. From what I can recall I would certainly classify it as a hate crime whether it was classified as such or not I can't remember.



Again from what I can remember this also could potentially meet the requirements of a hate crime although I don't think it was against Christians as much as it was against Jocks and others who had mocked and ridiculed the two assalaints throughout their entire lives. The fact that most, if not all, of the people killed or injured were Christian is more of a product of where the attack took place, a very large Christian population so it stands to reason that more Christians would end up getting hurt.

El-Duderino, don't forget the Inquisition now either.