Island Dog Island Dog

Obama Proposes "National Security Force"

Obama Proposes "National Security Force"

And the Media Ignores It

There is just so much to this story, and it really proves how the media is completely backing Obama.  At a speech in Colorado Springs on July 2nd, Barack Hussein Obama made this statement...

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Of course Obama never gives specifics, but this is an extraordinary statement.  First let me say, can you imagine what the left and the media would be saying if McCain said anything like this?  However, when Obama says it.....nothing.....nothing at all. 

In fact, only a few newspapers printed the transcripts of the speech, but the transcripts don't match the video of the speech.  So did the media just print a copy of the speech provided by the Obama camp, or are they just ignoring the drastic additions made to this speech?  Either way it's a disgrace, as Obama's notion of a civilian "security force" has not been challenged by any media organization. 

Of course the main source of this information is blogs, which in this election will be our only reliable source of information about the "real" Obama.  Wouldn't you think the media should ask some serious questions about this?  Obviously, the Obama fan brigade is labeling this as a Peace Corps type thing.  Sorry, but "national security force" that is "just about powerful" as our military is not the same as a Peace Corps.  

271,719 views 121 replies
Reply #26 Top
The Surge didnt work. Have you looked at how much money was spread out to all the different groups to stop fight? Iraqi gov got some sunni's got a ton, shiites got a bunch...The surge didnt work, the cash flow worked and that is fact.
End of quote

Funny how facts can be twisted. You think the hoods/insurgents/Iranians weren't paying Iraqis to perpetuate the violence? Once the Iraqis had a choice of payrolls to be on, look whose they chose. Whatever you choose to call it, the change in tactics and the additional boots on the ground "worked" whether you will concede it or not.
Reply #27 Top
I would disagree, there are still many historians who are torn about him, while some praise him for foreign relations others also point out he was the one who really started our huge national debt(yes carter had a small one), but Reagan ballooned it and started some of the problems we are still coping with today, the "me" decade hurt.
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Okay you are the president of the United States of America. You have a choice, when you took office inflation was in double digits and spiraling up. You faced massive unemployment, and interest rates at 21%. This was what President Reagan faced when he took office because President Carter did nothing to ever look like he was trying to solve the problems that caused it.

He undertook a massive 30% tax cut allowing more Americans to have more money. In a sense he gave us all a pay raise. Because President Carter had cut the military budget so badly we could not fight a war or rescue hostages, the next thing was to rebuild the military and pay them. (Personal experience, one of my corporals was married and living on base, because he was in the military he is forbidden to hold another job. The only way he could feed his family was to apply and receive welfare. Think of it you are a government employee and you are eligible for welfare and food stamps!) (Personal experience, the budget was slashed so badly by Mr. Carter ( a man I voted for the first time) we were only allowed one tank of gas per vehicle per month. We were only allowed 20 rounds of blank ammunition per man per month for training. An M-16 A-1 rifle magazine holds 28 rounds of ammunition and fires at a rate of 700 rounds per minute. Live ammunition was so scarce that we only had enough money for our yearly requalification roughly three hundred rounds per year per man plus what we used on guard duty. We did not have enough money in the budget for cleaning supplies and was forced to buy our own toilet paper, and we had to chip in to buy floor cleaner and comet.) This was the thanks from a grateful nation for our service.

Just to get our military up and running we needed massive funding because for those four years of Mr. Carter we did not buy replenishment and replacement parts as needed so our equipment was falling apart. There were times there was not enough money in the budget to repair water heaters so in the winter time I had to take cold showers, and some days the heater went out so the barracks was not much warmer than it was outside. Our military was rotting from the inside out. Then the hostage crisis occurred and the American people that cheered our budget cuts demanded we go in and get our people out of Iran by force. The disastrous results are history.

The tax cuts helped jump start the economy, the military purchases that seemed excessive got people jobs. So yes, Mr. Carter had a small national debt, and on paper it looks nice but in reality the nation was in dire striates, our military could barely defend us from a sneak attack from Haiti. Double digit unemployment, crushing taxes, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and people wondering if their next pay check will be their last as businesses laid off people to stay afloat or went out of business all together.

While Mr. Reagan had a massive national debt it was paid off in under 20 years and we had 93 months of economic growth.

President Bush’s opponents whine about the record unemployment of 4.9% that has gone all the way up to 5.7% while forgetting that the lowest President Clinton had was 5.8% and it was touted as the lowest unemployment in history.

July 1979 inflation was at 11.2% four years later under Mr. Reagan inflation was at 2.4% for the same month. The average rate of inflation for Mr. Carter was 11.2% but four years later under new leadership the average rate was 3.2% this means things were not as expensive and people can afford to buy things that keep other people employed. Never during either President Reagan or Bush did the inflation rate get larger than 5% on average for any given year once he started to bring the rate down it stayed down.

When Mr. Clinton was in office his last years interest rates were at 8% Mr. Bush demanded a tax cut and interest rates dropped to 6% this is big because the last time interest rates were at 6% President Kennedy was in office. Two years later interest rates fell to 5% they have been going up but wars will do that, it has gotten as high as 8% and is currently at 7%.

I could not find a historical chart of interest rates to compare Carter and Reagan but I lived through it and it went down not up or stagnated.

I wrote an article showing how it was not the me generation of the 80’s that was to fault it was the me generation of the 60’s that was the cause. When the liberals demanded we stop teaching ethics in colleges, stop teaching the mandatory theology classes to get a business degrees we created the mess in the 80’s. Guess what? You now have to take ethics again because we stopped teaching it and the reason for teaching the class slapped us in the face 20 years later when those kids became business leaders with no ethical or moral compass.
Reply #28 Top
The jupiters were obsolete and were coming out anyway, so we gave them nothing there. And the hundreds of millions of dollars you are talking about sounds very familiar to what is happening in Iraq right now only its tens of billions of dollars. I will give you though that Kennedy did slip in some popularity.
End of quote


Let me put it like this, I have an obsolete WWII atomic bomb in my basement still in working order. I have let everyone know I have this little toy and you live next door. Do you feel threatened by it? What the Soviet Union did was park a few next door to us.

Next you take the 1960’s budget of a few hundred billion dollars and make the equivalent budget today and what do you have? Tens of billions of dollars. Only this time we are not paying a dictator we are using the money to help build an ally. You are using American mindsets in an Arab world. There it is who is the strongest and who is the richest that get the loyalties. If you are not perceived as the winner before the battle you are a non-starter. To show you have power you give financial favors to your friends. This is normal politics over there. As soon as the Iraqis saw they were going to lose they quit. Over there it is easy to tell the losing side. Everyone on the losing side gets killed, families included, so 20 years later there are no revenge killings. Think of this strange concept. You have a political election and the loser and those that supported the loser are left alive to try in the next election. This is a very new concept over there. You mean I support Mohamed and he loses and my family is not going to be killed by the victor? And you allow such things in your country? Yes we do. But your leader is weak if he allows his enemies to live. Not in my country and now the same will be true in your country.

Remember the last election Saddam won? On the ballot you had to put who you voted for as well as your name and address. Keeping that mindset who would you vote for? My vote is for Saddam all the way!

My point is that you are trying to put American rules and values on a people that have no understanding of them. It will take a few generations of free elections to show that it is okay to voice your opinion.
Reply #29 Top
President Bush’s opponents whine about the record unemployment of 4.9% that has gone all the way up to 5.7% while forgetting that the lowest President Clinton had was 5.8% and it was touted as the lowest unemployment in history.
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http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LNS14000000

I trust the government's data. :LOL:
+1 Loading…
Reply #30 Top
I dont think anyone running for president this year is ashamed of our country but I do think we need to confront our mistakes, unless we are willing to say we are perfect, I certainly cant say I have been in my life, not sure if anyone can.
End of quote


Please tell me how we have not confronted our mistakes.

I will give you that Obama knew his preacher for longer, but both were still supporters, and I do know that Reagan was a 2 time govener(68'-76'?). And I do think being a govener is better but you still cant really know until they are put in the position, just like if you are a bench player for a baseball team and suddenly you are the starter, you never know how that will turn out.
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Supporters? His preacher was his advisor on race relations for his campaign! And don’t give me that unpaid crap. 90% of his staff is unpaid. The man he chose to advise him was a racist giving him his racist views.

Senator McCain on the other hand has people supporting him but not part of his campaign, not an advisor just an independent person who ran off at the mouth. When he did the Senator said no, this is not me, he does not represent me.

Senator Obama first stood by him, then said he does not represent me. When it was pointed out that he was the Senator’s advisor the senator said that he is an unpaid advisor. When it was pointed out that he was still an advisor is when he disavowed him but kept him as his advisor. When the press pushed hard then he dismissed him from the campaign but still went to church. This is not just some supporter that ran off at the mouth the preacher was part of the senators campaign staff and it took months to finally get rid of him.

hope you slept well.
Reply #31 Top
and, to some extent, Fascism and Nazism.
End of quote


Actually, they are more left in practice. As both have Socialism as their core.

That sounds like something our current administration would do, and has done, manipulate the constitution for thier own gain.
End of quote


No. But the left has tried (and suceeded). You might want to point out where mandatory seat belts is enumerated in the constitution. Also where not having Health insurance is a crime in the constitution.

The left sees the intentions, not the results. if THEIR intentions are good, then the law must be good, no matter how unconstitutional it is. Looking back over the last 70 years, every right that we have given up has been in the name of good intentions. And the left has not only not demonstrated against that abrogation of rights, but rallied for the abrogation!
Reply #32 Top
That sounds like something our current administration would do, and has done, manipulate the constitution for thier own gain.
End of quote


Yawn.
Reply #33 Top

That sounds like something our current administration would do, and has done, manipulate the constitution for thier own gain.   

Please explain what you mean here. Give examples if you can.

End of quote

Wire taping illegally I think that's probably the best one and it leads to some many other things in the name of national security.

Reply #34 Top

Funny how facts can be twisted. You think the hoods/insurgents/Iranians weren't paying Iraqis to perpetuate the violence? Once the Iraqis had a choice of payrolls to be on, look whose they chose. Whatever you choose to call it, the change in tactics and the additional boots on the ground "worked" whether you will concede it or not.
End of quote

Our boots on the grouund have always done a great job there...my point was that the troop surge didnt work the "Money Surge" worked.  So why doesnt Bush just come out and say we paid them off?  I dont have a problem with that but when he twists what really happend Ido.

Reply #35 Top

He undertook a massive 30% tax cut allowing more Americans to have more money. In a sense he gave us all a pay raise. Because President Carter had cut the military budget so badly we could not fight a war or rescue hostages, the next thing was to rebuild the military and pay them. (Personal experience, one of my corporals was married and living on base, because he was in the military he is forbidden to hold another job. The only way he could feed his family was to apply and receive welfare. Think of it you are a government employee and you are eligible for welfare and food stamps!) (Personal experience, the budget was slashed so badly by Mr. Carter ( a man I voted for the first time) we were only allowed one tank of gas per vehicle per month. We were only allowed 20 rounds of blank ammunition per man per month for training. An M-16 A-1 rifle magazine holds 28 rounds of ammunition and fires at a rate of 700 rounds per minute. Live ammunition was so scarce that we only had enough money for our yearly requalification roughly three hundred rounds per year per man plus what we used on guard duty. We did not have enough money in the budget for cleaning supplies and was forced to buy our own toilet paper, and we had to chip in to buy floor cleaner and comet.) This was the thanks from a grateful nation for our service. Just to get our military up and running we needed massive funding because for those four years of Mr. Carter we did not buy replenishment and replacement parts as needed so our equipment was falling apart. There were times there was not enough money in the budget to repair water heaters so in the winter time I had to take cold showers, and some days the heater went out so the barracks was not much warmer than it was outside. Our military was rotting from the inside out. Then the hostage crisis occurred and the American people that cheered our budget cuts demanded we go in and get our people out of Iran by force. The disastrous results are history
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Ok I wont disagree with you that Carter was not very good with the military, infact I dont disagree with anything you said here save maybe that there is also blame to go around to the generals who planned the rescue the whole plan was ot good and had little chance of success.  I will also say that yes the wealthy being taxed at 75 % was pretty excessive.  I think a reasonable amount would be 35-40%.  Would you have a problem with that, say for example I won the lottery and took home 100 million before taxes do you think I would care if after taxes I got 65 million or 60 million?  I can tell you most of us wouldnt care. Dont forget rich folks get other advantages as well like with the Social security tax.  I mean seriously is it fair that I have to pay taxes for SS on 100% of my earnings and people making a million a year on ly have to pay SS taxes on less than 10%?

 

Reply #36 Top

President Bush’s opponents whine about the record unemployment of 4.9% that has gone all the way up to 5.7% while forgetting that the lowest President Clinton had was 5.8% and it was touted as the lowest unemployment in history.
End of quote

Unemployment numbers are always misleading....They dont count the number of people that have expire off the rolls.

Reply #37 Top

You now have to take ethics again because we stopped teaching it and the reason for teaching the class slapped us in the face 20 years later when those kids became business leaders with no ethical or moral compass.
End of quote

All I can say about this is that where I work supervisors have to take these classes and they dont work.  I have been a Shop Steward for several years and I can tell you without a doubt that there is not one supervisor that I have come across that will tell you the truth.  I have time and time again caught the comapy lying, and the same people do it over and over again.  If I as an employee were to do it and get caught even just once with it never in my record before I would immediately be discharged.  So I think we may want to look at another path or hold all people to the same standard.

Reply #38 Top

Please tell me how we have not confronted our mistakes.
End of quote

Not saying that we have not, what I am saying is that everyone rags on Obama because he mentions that we have done some bad things, well its true.  Lets not rag on the guy about it.  Bush has admitted mistakes as have most presidents and nominees, why do we treat Obama different was what I was saying.

Reply #39 Top
Everyone rags on Obama because he is a Marxist fool who is on the take. Everyone rags on Obama because he isn't worth taking seriously. The ONLY reason he is the Democrat nominee is the same reason any democrat wins the nomination... the press chose him.
Reply #40 Top
Wire taping illegally I think that's probably the best one and it leads to some many other things in the name of national security.
End of quote


And yet a Democrat congress not only found that he didn't break any laws there, they passed laws supporting his position.

Next!
Reply #41 Top
Unemployment numbers are always misleading....They dont count the number of people that have expire off the rolls.
End of quote


They dont count a lot of things, but that is a red herring. There are always people that have quit looking. YOu have to agree on a yard stick and stay with it. Doing the big BUT only makes your argument weaker.
Reply #42 Top
Wire taping illegally I think that's probably the best one and it leads to some many other things in the name of national security.
End of quote


You mean wire tapping, that has been done by our government since 1925 illegally, is all the fault of the Bush Administration? Forget the wire tapping done by President Kennedy and Attorney General Kennedy to smear political opponents such as Vice President Richard Nixon.

The illegal wire taps of President Johnson as ordered by Attorney General Kennedy.

The illegal wire taps of President Nixon who was just doing what the other president did.

You mean the illegal wire taps of President Carter.

You mean the illegal wire taps of Presidents Reagan and Bush? Oh wait there were never any allegations of this attributed to these presidents.

You mean the illegal wire taps of President Clinton, who expanded this to reading all of your E-mail?

But all of a sudden we have the current president of the United States tapping terrorists not Americans it is a bad thing. I have a hard time believing this do you have any examples of this?


my point was that the troop surge didnt work the "Money Surge" worked. So why doesnt Bush just come out and say we paid them off? I dont have a problem with that but when he twists what really happend Ido.
End of quote


And just how did you get this secret information of the payoffs? Could it be that you got it from the news? If that is the case then it is not a secret is it. Having worked in the area many years ago I know that it is just the way business is done. The great revelation you are disclosing is of the same shocking news value as the revelation that we pay income taxes.

If I as an employee were to do it and get caught even just once with it never in my record before I would immediately be discharged. So I think we may want to look at another path or hold all people to the same standard.
End of quote



So after more than 20 years of not teaching ethics you expect that just because people take a few classes that the classes will instantly change the way people are? How many times have you read the truth about something and ignored it because it goes against your beliefs on the topic?

I dont disagree with anything you said here save maybe that there is also blame to go around to the generals who planned the rescue the whole plan was ot good and had little chance of success.
End of quote


I was on the planning staff for the rescue of hostages in Iran because my unit was supposed to be the first in if we used the Marine plan, I helped write the marine plan (as a minor player). Five plans were presented to the President. His advisors chose the one that was most politically correct rather than the one that had the best chance of success. The problem with liberals is that they don’t trust the Generals so they try to run the show even when they don’t know what they are doing. Look at Vietnam the war was run by President Johnson. The same was done with the hostage crisis. The Gulf war President Bush told the generals what he wanted and let them do it. In the war on terror President Bush did as he father did. See the difference in results.

what I am saying is that everyone rags on Obama because he mentions that we have done some bad things, well its true. Lets not rag on the guy about it.
End of quote


The senator is beating a dead horse. The problems have been remedied why keep bringing them up again and again? The President of the United States is supposed to be the figurehead for the nation. The leader of our people and commander in Chief of our military. The last thing people need is to have that person rehashing our mistakes of the past rubbing our noses in crap we had nothing to do with. Did you discriminate against people? Did you lynch anyone? Do you know anyone who does? We have not openly lynched anyone since we got the democrats out of power.

The last poll taken showed that only 8% of the nation will not vote for Senator Obama because of his race. Where is the problem?

And yet a Democrat congress not only found that he didn't break any laws there, they passed laws supporting his position.
End of quote


Please don’t confuse the issue with fact and or logic.
Reply #43 Top

Hmm, one 'arse', one 'bitching', and one 'asses.' So it's the use of 'bitching' that's gotten you so upset? Good grief, you need to grow a thicker skin and quit being such a pussy if you're going to survive around here for long, you pathetic little whiner. You aren't my mother. You aren't the author of this thread, either, and if anyone has the right to chastise another contributor on this thread it would be the thread's author, Island Dog. If you must BITCH about it, I'd suggest you take it up with an Administrator, but since I've used the word even in the titles of some of my articles here, (most notably an article comparing the use of the word 'Bitch' to that of 'Nigger.' Admins asked me to remove the dreaded N word from the title, but let 'Bitch' stand....which was entirely my point, but I digress) but they'd probably tell you to quit BITCHING about such petty use of mild profanity and get on with the business of promoting your boy, B. Hussein Obama. After all, he's now stooped so low as to try to BUY votes by promising a nice $1000 check for every 'poor person' in America, taken straight out of the evil oil companies' pockets. He's conveniently forgotten to mention that those same wicked oil companies will simply pass this additional punitive tax on to the consumer, the very 'poor' that B. Hussein Osama (oops, Obama) is currently duping with these silly ploys. knowing they'll probably just spend it on crack or malt liquor anyway and are too stupid to comprehend any consequence beyond that. To sum it up, Mooseplow, quit yer bitching about my use of the word bitching, I don't give two squirts of owl shit what you think of me or my contributions here, I've been around these pages for years and I've paid my dues...yours are on the way yet, and they're going to be rather steep if you make a practice of chiding others on their choice of words. I don't like it, and neither does anyone else. Pitch a bitch to Admin or stfu about it already. *Pardon the momentary hijack, Island Dog, but since he's posted several times about it, I felt it deserved a response.
End of quote

It is your attitude and your laguage, and I have every right to fight for what I believe to be right.  Asking someone to act like an adult isnt out of line and isnt complaining.  I mean god forbid I try to have a civil discussion here at a higher level than that of a first grader who just learned how to swear and insult people and does it just because they want to feel power over someone else.  That is why you do it.....you think it gives you power when all it does is make you look childish.  So go on and have your little rants as a child as from this moment on I will no longer read or respond to a person who lowers the grade that much.

 

Reply #44 Top

And just how did you get this secret information of the payoffs? Could it be that you got it from the news? If that is the case then it is not a secret is it. Having worked in the area many years ago I know that it is just the way business is done. The great revelation you are disclosing is of the same shocking news value as the revelation that we pay income taxes.
End of quote

So then why dont they just say it?

Reply #45 Top

So after more than 20 years of not teaching ethics you expect that just because people take a few classes that the classes will instantly change the way people are? How many times have you read the truth about something and ignored it because it goes against your beliefs on the topic?
End of quote

These classes have been ongoing at UPS for the last 13 years, I have been there over 15, and they have to go every quarter.  So its hardly a few.

Reply #46 Top

I was on the planning staff for the rescue of hostages in Iran because my unit was supposed to be the first in if we used the Marine plan, I helped write the marine plan (as a minor player). Five plans were presented to the President. His advisors chose the one that was most politically correct rather than the one that had the best chance of success. The problem with liberals is that they don’t trust the Generals so they try to run the show even when they don’t know what they are doing. Look at Vietnam the war was run by President Johnson. The same was done with the hostage crisis. The Gulf war President Bush told the generals what he wanted and let them do it. In the war on terror President Bush did as he father did. See the difference in results.
End of quote

I agree that many times ALL presidents do what is politically correct and they shouldnt.  Bush did that when he had bremer remove the Baathists from power and then there was nobody to run Iraq.  Why do you think they still dont have pre-war power levels.

Reply #47 Top
I agree that many times ALL presidents do what is politically correct and they shouldnt. Bush did that when he had bremer remove the Baathists from power and then there was nobody to run Iraq. Why do you think they still dont have pre-war power levels.
End of quote


Why do you long for the days when the Baathists were in power instead of celebrate freedom for the people of Iraq?
Reply #48 Top

Why do you long for the days when the Baathists were in power instead of celebrate freedom for the people of Iraq?
End of quote

I dont, but the fact is that the baathists that were removed from the secretarial jobs, the engineering jobs, running the electric grid, the trains and so on have caused the people of Iraq ALOT of undue pain, and there is no denying that, even most rebuplicans admit this now.

Reply #49 Top
So then why dont they just say it?
End of quote


You are very bright to have caught it so quickly. I am impressed. The purpose if the news organizations, and this is covered in the constitution, is to report to the public what the government is doing so they can’t slip one over on us. If it hits the news then it is supposed to be and independent source of information that is corroborated by more than one person or witness. If it is a press release they are supposed to tell us that as well. Sometimes when a news organization wants to damage a political party in power they will take press releases that there was no room left to print that day and reword them as news the next day or week or month. In this case it is well known that this is how business is done. It is not news but some enterprising person may have tried to make it sound as if this was something underhanded and sneaky. Iran pays its terrorists to attack US and Iraqi forces in Iraq. They are not doing this out of some sense of patriotism or a civil war. In that part of the world you get paid even if it is the side you want to win. If it is the other side then they have to pay you more. Over here that is shocking and just not done. But keep in mind that this is not happening in America it is happening in the middle East, rules and customs are different.

These classes have been ongoing at UPS for the last 13 years, I have been there over 15, and they have to go every quarter. So its hardly a few.
End of quote


And as evidenced by the fact that they keep giving the class that it has not reached the people yet. How many people are liberals because they care about what is happening and think that liberalism is the better way to go? How many of them are still liberals after they turn age 30? How many are in their 40’s you will see the numbers drop as people get older because they learn that liberalism sounds good but does not solve any problems. Name one problem that was solved through liberalism. Liberals came up with welfare which is a good idea, then they tried to use it to get votes, to do that they had to recruit people into it slowly creating a welfare state. They stopped solving the problem and created another one. As liberals get older they see that the mean conservatives have tried to solve the problems just not the same way as liberals. Being exposed to conservatives creates more conservatives from the liberal base. The same with ethics, the more exposure the more people start to agree that it is the best way to be. Honest and true. But liberals don’t believe this as evidenced by the fact that they are dishonest and untrue. Not the liberal but the professional liberal. No one votes for liberals when they say what they really want to do so they have to hide their agenda. People without ethics believe everyone else is without ethics so until they see everyone else following the rules they won’t either.

Bush did that when he had bremer remove the Baathists from power and then there was nobody to run Iraq. Why do you think they still dont have pre-war power levels.
End of quote


This is one of those political lies you were told.
Removing the Baathists is part of the way we have done things since WWII, it works, we removed everyone that was a Nazi, vetted them and the ones we could trust were put back in place where they were needed. The same was done in Japan, Italy, and France. This was not a BUSH thing it was a military procedure that we have followed with success each time. Study your history you will see I am correct on this.

The reason why you still don’t have power going everywhere it is needed. Is because you have Iran Special Forces there tearing up most things that get done there. Keep in mind that in the first gulf war we shut down their power plants and repairing bomb damage was not high on their list after the war because they used it to gain sympathy. Then we attacked again and this time we did not attack their power grid like before. So you are talking about damage done in the first gulf war not the second one. It has nothing to do with the people in charge when you have people blowing up power lines and pipe lines every chance they get.
Reply #50 Top
Mooseplow -

You mean to say that the Iraqis aren't a bunch of stone age religious zealot freakazoids who will never stop warring with each other no matter what we do? That civil war wasn't inevitable after all? That the little hiatus in the 3000 year war wasn't temporary after all? That the minute our military muscle steps back the whole freakin' place won't go to hell in a handbasket? Weren't those just some of the arguments agin' before the 'surge/payoff'? It amazes me how reluctant some people are to accept or acknowledge success. But then what was I thinkin', right?