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Why I own, and will continue to own a foreign car

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Why I own, and will continue to own a foreign car

from JoeUser Forums
I am a proud owner of Toyota and Acura products. In the past, I have owned cars from each of the big "three", even though only 2 are still american car companies. They were horrible cars. I mean horrible when compared to my japanese cars. Toyota knows how to make cars. I would be more than happy to purchase an America car IF:

1) It was within $10,000 dollars of a toyota or acura product
2) It had comparable build quality as assesed by JD Powers
3) It had similar relibility as judged by Consumer Reports
4) It had AWD or FWD
5) It had similar engine and luxury features
6) It had equal or better fuel economy

Now, I know that the American car companies can not meet these requirments. Until they do, I will continue to buy other cars. An example of a car the big three can not compete with is the Lexus RX 400h which is a hybrid luxury SUV.
politics
15,416 views 50 replies
Reply #26 from PolMach Forums Top
You know Dr. Strangelove was based on the book 'Failsafe'.
I hope you don't take that movie as seriously as John Edwards did.

"Yahoooo!!!"
- Major Grim.J. 'King' Xong
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
That's kinda what I was thinking....
In '78, I had the dubious honor of getting the very last Ford sta wgn with 400 cubes that rolled off the Canadian line!
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #27 By: stevendedalus - 10/20/2004 1:28:00 AM
That's kinda what I was thinking....
In '78, I had the dubious honor of getting the very last Ford sta wgn with 400 cubes that rolled off the Canadian line!


Back in my misspent youth I used to own a 76 "Canadian" Ford Station wagon with a 460ci. Boy was that bugger fast.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top

And before everyone one starts on me, who engineered the VW?

Is that supposed to be an arguement in favor of German engineering?    Yeah, air cooled engines....that was such brilliant engineering that we really stuck with it!

And, before anyone starts with a "well, if you actually knew anything about them...." type comment, I have a 70's Karmann Ghia in my poll barn.  My husband wants a shirt that says: "VW- Drivers wanted- Mechanics needed".

There is a Scooby doo episode where the mystery machine "over heats" and they open up the deck lid to see steam roll out of the radiator.   Cracks me up when I see it.

Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #29 By: KarmaGirl - 10/20/2004 1:19:29 PM
And before everyone one starts on me, who engineered the VW?

Is that supposed to be an arguement in favor of German engineering? Yeah, air cooled engines....that was such brilliant engineering that we really stuck with it!
And, before anyone starts with a "well, if you actually knew anything about them...." type comment, I have a 70's Karmann Ghia in my poll barn. My husband wants a shirt that says: "VW- Drivers wanted- Mechanics needed".


You know just because *you* have had a bad experience with one does not mean their all bad. BTW I hate to tell you but there are a LOT of air cooled Porsche's around also. What do you think a lot of Baja 500 cars are using for engines? And if you can't see that at the time the air cooled engine was an engineering marvel then you need to take off your blinders. It changed the world.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top

It changed the world.

Changed the world????  How so?  Baja's have always used them.  That doesn't mean that the technology is better.  Hell, Wankel engines are different, too, but that doesn't mean that they "changed the world" or that they are a great engineering "marvel".  Just because something is different doesn't mean that it is good.  If it (air cooled engine) was such a great engineering marvel, why doesn't VW still make them?  Why did they switch to water cooled engines?

I didn't say that I had a "bad" experience with them.  That is where you are making assumptions again.  What I said is that they are not a good example of good german engineering.  I have a "typical" experience with them. Considering that they need valve lashing on a regular basis to keep running correctly shows that there are major flaws with the way they are engineered.  When you race something (like Baja) you are always lashing valves and tuning your engine anyway (even with water cooled) so it's not an issue.  And, that doesn't even touch on the beauty of their cab "heating" system.....

German's have some great engineering.  Air cooled engines are not a good example of that.

Reply #32 from PolMach Forums Top
Rotary Engines are great!!

- Grim Xoom Zoom Zoom
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #31 By: KarmaGirl - 10/20/2004 2:00:42 PM
It changed the world.

Changed the world???? How so? Baja's have always used them. That doesn't mean that the technology is better. Hell, Wankel engines are different, too, but that doesn't mean that they "changed the world" or that they are a great engineering "marvel". Just because something is different doesn't mean that it is good. If it (air cooled engine) was such a great engineering marvel, why doesn't VW still make them? Why did they switch to water cooled engines?
I didn't say that I had a "bad" experience with them. That is where you are making assumptions again. What I said is that they are not a good example of good german engineering. I have a "typical" experience with them. Considering that they need valve lashing on a regular basis to keep running correctly shows that there are major flaws with the way they are engineered. When you race something (like Baja) you are always lashing valves and tuning your engine anyway (even with water cooled) so it's not an issue. And, that doesn't even touch on the beauty of their cab "heating" system.....


This shows your misunderstanding. 1 VW's not NOT need to have their valves constantly adjusted (I grew up in the 60's and have had 3 VW's so I know what I'm talking about). 2 Baja has always used them? Since the 500 never came into being until well after WW2 (which is when the german air-cooled engine was invented) kind of shoots that theroy in the butt. 3 You tell me I'm making assupmtions. Your the one who said they had a 70 Ghia sitting in the pole barn, not me. 4 VW doesn't still make them because of engineering advances. 5 "Just because something is different doesn't make it good". Seems like (if you read the history on WW2 and Rommels Afrika Corp) you should know that Rommel had a lot less problems with his air-cooled engines then we or the brits did with their water-cooled engines. So in conclusion at the time the "air-cooled" engine was an engineering marvel! Just like the "Wankel" rotary engine was in it's time Which the inventor of this was also German. Now you want to talk about an engine with problems? BTW I simply used the VW as an example. The Germans were also the first with production jet power and the first rockets.
Reply #34 from PolMach Forums Top
Messerschmitt 262, an awesome feat and advancement in the entire history of Aviation.

It was the turning point in aviation and is what spurred on the imaginations of Americans, Brits, and Russians, into creating their perspective Jet Fighters after World War II.

Awesome plane to fly in World War II Flight Simulators and was a plane used by a German Ace who has a tally of 110+, an ace among aces. His name evades my memory at the moment.

- Grim Xabre Jet
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #34 By: Grim Xiozan - 10/20/2004 2:51:55 PM
Messerschmitt 262, an awesome feat and advancement in the entire history of Aviation.

It was the turning point in aviation and is what spurred on the imaginations of Americans, Brits, and Russians, into creating their perspective Jet Fighters after World War II.

Awesome plane to fly in World War II Flight Simulators and was a plane used by a German Ace who has a tally of 110+, an ace among aces. His name evades my memory at the moment.

- Grim Xabre Jet


Looking for this guy, Grim?


Jan. 1945 - following long disputes with Hitler and Goering, general Adolf Galland (103 victories), the head of the fighter command and formerly the top german ace, is dismissed. He is permitted to establish and lead an independent Me-262 fighter squadron and select its pilots. The squadron (JV44) becomes the most elite fighter squadron in history. Its pilots are all veteran "experten", the german term for top aces. The total number of air combat victories by its pilots is amazing, and when I counted them, I reached over 1000 victories at the 5th name!! JV44 was by far the highest concentration of air combat talent and experience ever in history, but it took three months until it became operational in april 1945, shortly before the end of the war, and its air base was often bombarded by the allies.




April 1945 - JV44, the squadron of the experts, makes its debut. In addition to the 30mm guns, its Me-262 aircraft are armed with 50mm unguided air-to-air rockets. Galland and others score victories both with guns and with rockets. Later during the month, in the last days of the war, the political hierarchy of the nazi regime, that was responsible for the production delays and operational misuse of the Messerschmitt Me-262, finally collapses, and all the non-fighter units in the german air force which previously possessed Me-262s of all types, voluntarily transfer them to the unit which could best use them, and JV44 suddenly grows from a small squadron to 70 aircraft, but its far too late. JV44 must retreat to a base in Austria, where it surrenders to an american tank unit in May 3, 1945.
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
I love how this turned into a conversating about cars.. now I'll throw my bit into it. Porshces continue to have air cooled engines (the 997 version of the 911). Now, who here is a lexus fan? Anyone? I love mine. Best car I ever owned. Talk about well made. I'm not so in love with the euro cars anymore. Mercedes used to stand for quality, now they stand for quantity.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #31 By: KarmaGirl - 10/20/2004 2:00:42 PM


Just as an aside and realize you do not have to answer. How old are you? (In geralizations IE: 20's, 30's, 40's)
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #36 By: sandy2 - 10/20/2004 3:01:46 PM
I love how this turned into a conversating about cars.. now I'll throw my bit into it. Porshces continue to have air cooled engines (the 997 version of the 911). Now, who here is a lexus fan? Anyone? I love mine. Best car I ever owned. Talk about well made. I'm not so in love with the euro cars anymore. Mercedes used to stand for quality, now they stand for quantity.


Everyone used to stand for quality and not quanity. *Sigh* those were the days. I can't say I've ever driven a Lexus (don't have that kind of money.) but I have driven my wife's Altima. Not to shabby.
Reply #39 from PolMach Forums Top
That is the one Doc.

Adolf Galland, him and another German ace were the top aces of World War II.

As for the Lexus, if I really want a Toyota I will get a rugged sports car Toyota like the Supra but I still prefer Subaru's Impreza WRX (hopefully they will release a WRC edition in the US someday).
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top

1 VW's not NOT need to have their valves constantly adjusted (I grew up in the 60's and have had 3 VW's so I know what I'm talking about).

Sure, they don't.  Unless, of course, you don't care that they don't run right.  Maybe you just got used to them running poorly and didn't realize how they should run.  Funny, but the VW club people that I talk to actually have special tools that they recommend that you keep in the car "just in case" you need it on a trip.  Why do they do that if they don't feel it is needed to keep their air cooled running right?

2 Baja has always used them? Since the 500 never came into being until well after WW2 (which is when the german air-cooled engine was invented) kind of shoots that theroy in the butt.

uh, no it doesn't.  I said that they always used them.  Obviously, the air cool engine had to come into existence before the Baja's could use them, right?  So, how does it shoot down my theory stating that the Baja's always used an engine that existed before they started using them?   

3 You tell me I'm making assupmtions. Your the one who said they had a 70 Ghia sitting in the pole barn, not me

Yes, I do have a Ghia.  What does that have to do with me saying that you are making assumptions of my experiences with air cooled engines?  You are assuming that I have no experience with engines.  Considering that my husband works in a German engineering group, used to be an engineer on great lakes freighters (now, *those* are an engineering marvel), builds drag cars, and likes to point out the flaws of every engine that he sees (including re-engineering the EGR on his truck because it was "wrong") I have learned the finer points and not such fine points of many different types of engines.  My pole barn does have a Ghia in it, as well as at least 6 other cars, about 6 different trannies, assorted engines, cams, cranks, a full powertrain out of a 79 Turbo Capri and various other assorted "parts", a few snowmobiles (which rotary engines would be OK in), and a hit and miss engine.  I rebuilt said Capri's 4 popper when I was 17, and have cleaned it's tranny with a toothbrush (that is a different story).  So, I'm not exactly just looking up crap on the internet and spewing it back out.  If you think that air cooled engines were great, even for the time, stick with that.  More power to you.  But, I just can't agree with it. 

4 VW doesn't still make them because of engineering advances.
 

That's not a very good argument.  Why did air cooled engineering advancements stop but water cooled continued?  If air cooled "changed the world" how come they didn't continue with it?  Is it possibly because they realized that it was flawed and switched their focus to the more superior cooling system?

Just like the "Wankel" rotary engine was in it's time Which the inventor of this was also German. Now you want to talk about an engine with problems?

Wait, I thought you were trying to prove that German Engineering is better

Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm not so in love with the euro cars anymore. Mercedes used to stand for quality, now they stand for quantity.

Mercede's is basically a US company now (since Daimler and Chrysler merged).  The Mercedes that you find in Europe are different than the ones in the US, as are the Jeeps.  (You can also get Europe Jeeps with diesel engines, as an example).

One of the problems with cars is that America is a throw away society.  Just look at how many people lease because they want t anew car every 2 to 3 years.  Companies cater to that, and add "features" and new colors each year to keep the buyers interested in trading in for the newer model.

Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top

Just as an aside and realize you do not have to answer. How old are you? (In geralizations IE: 20's, 30's, 40's)

Why would it matter?

Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mercede's is basically a US company now (since Daimler and Chrysler merged). The Mercedes that you find in Europe are different than the ones in the US, as are the Jeeps. (You can also get Europe Jeeps with diesel engines, as an example).
One of the problems with cars is that America is a throw away society. Just look at how many people lease because they want t anew car every 2 to 3 years. Companies cater to that, and add "features" and new colors each year to keep the buyers interested in trading in for the newer model.


I keep my cars for ten years. Then again, I have alot of cars. I'd say I switch main drivers once every 6 or 7 years.
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #40 By: KarmaGirl - 10/20/2004 3:22:05 PM
Yes, I do have a Ghia. What does that have to do with me saying that you are making assumptions of my experiences with air cooled engines? You are assuming that I have no experience with engines.


Now who's assuming?
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top

Now who's assuming?

Considering that you start everything with things like "This shows your misunderstanding" it's not a far stretch

Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top

I keep my cars for ten years. Then again, I have alot of cars. I'd say I switch main drivers once every 6 or 7 years.

How many miles does that add up to?  My cars only last 5 to 6 years.  That sounds bad when you hear it by years.  However, I have a car that I bout 11 days ago and it already has over 1,000 miles on it.

Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
My fleet:



Soccer Mom of the family's car


Lexus


15 year old acura... now that is quality
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
How many miles does that add up to? My cars only last 5 to 6 years. That sounds bad when you hear it by years. However, I have a car that I bout 11 days ago and it already has over 1,000 miles on it.


12,000 a year while a "main driver". As a back up car, maybe 1,000 miles a year at most. My 15 year old car has say 120,000 miles on it.
Reply #50 from PolMach Forums Top
the Germans are better engineers


I was refering to automotive engineers


In the most strict sense of the term, I was an engineer for an American automotive company (GM). I'm glad you clarified the first statement. It's a pretty broad brush, but I can agree that alot of American engineers are dolts. I never actually worked directly on Automobiles though, some of our system designs, however, were retrofitted to autos.