My economy just suxs!

Hopefully someone responds, as I'm running into the same problem. I've tried sticking to my home planet plus one other colony, and I can't even keep THOSE in the green. When I quickly expanded to 5 or 6 planets, despite my playing with the sliders and market places being built (and upgraded!), I was losing 50bc per turn.

Well stop playing the Yor then. :p

No really, it does depend on your tech tree. But also, are you building any economic buildings? You will probably have to put some research into that...

Also, sometimes things like industry or morale buildings are very expensive to maintain. (Depends on tech tree.) If you build too many (spamming lots of those is usually a waste at some point eventually anyway) I could see this happening.

I'm usually burning up treasury until I get at least one of those one-per-planet 50% econ bonus buildings finished. But I doubt all tech trees have them. I've been doing Iconian lately.

Oh, also quickly expanding and building lots of very small colonies will hurt you too. Usually (there may be tech tree exceptions) the initial colony maintenance cost is pretty high. At least it was in DL. So if you have alot of little colonies that are doing nothing but draining your income, with pop too small to compensate, that'll hurt.

One other thing.... Stardock should really add some kind of 'auto tax' feature that will optimize your tax level based on a target approval level! I mess with that tax slider alot too, and it does get old. Alternatively, some people may want to automate it in reverse as well, and select a target income level (at least +1, etc.) and simply keep an eye on approval level.

The downside of this is you'll have to keep an eye on your approval level or treasury, but glancing down at the bottom left of the screen is a hell of alot easier than adjusting that slider all the time.

Just look around the forum, especially in the strategy-section there are so many threads dedicated to the economy issue. What I do, and that works pretty much for every civ (even for the Yor, in this case you have to try and obtain eco-techs via tech-trading early on) is to focus my research on economy, morale, population growth, research and (for civs like the Terrans) diplomacy. Plus, I spam as many colony ships as possible.

I don't recommend neglecting your colony expansion just because you have to struggle with your income early-game. You will need as many planets as possible in order to become a galactic power an be capable of competing with other races. I personally play immense galaxies with tight clusters and always try to colonize at least the star systems in my cluster and other worthwile planets in range of my ships.

So what's paramount is getting a sound economy going asap. On my homeworld, I usually rush-buy a factory, build a second one, then a building for research, eco, and morale respectively. I have my flagship exploring the nearest systems and send my colony ships to the best planets first. I don't rush-buy anything on these new colonies but just set their production tree to factory, eco, research, morale, farm (if available) - in this order. Your new colonies won't finish anything for a long while, and in the meantime your population grows. This by the way is the major reason why you hardly make any money initially - you don't have any taxpayers filling up your coffers. So let nature take its course and eventually your population will be big enough to support your economy. Pop-growth bonus techs and buildings like the recruitment center (or a naturally frisky population for that matter) help of course.

As mentioned above, first have your flagship explore the area you would like to colonize and of course take every anomaly you come across on the way, later just set your flagship to auto-explore and have it find anomalies on its own, which can be a big economy booster early game. If you manage to acquire a couple of thousand bc from anomalies it will make your life a lot easier obviously.

Notice that I check back to my domestic stats almost every turn in the early phase of the game. From the money you start with I'd only buy a factory on your homeworld to get things going. I usually leave the sliders for military, production and research the way the they are initially (later I tend to focus on research, for example 30:30:40) and set my tax slider so to keep morale above around 70% (to get the pop-growth bonus). What you will have to cut back on and adjust amlost every turn is your spending slider.
In my expansion phase this slider is sometimes down to 15-20%, meaning you don't really produce/research anything. If you played your cards right though, say you have 5-10 prospering colonies, 1-2 eco-techs available, find some nice anomalies etc., you will be able to increase your spending every turn a little bit as your population grows and the colonies start making some money.

By the time your economy consolidates, you have usually made contact to other civs and started establishing trade lanes. A good stragey is to build freighters on just one planet - usually it's my homeworld - to have all trade lanes focussed on this planet. Build 1-2 economy starbases around it and max out your trade collectors. Also, don't underestimate the power of resources - especially keep your eyes peeled for those green resources that give a huge boost for your economy.

As soon as your economy is out of the red, I would start researching military techs and pump out warships, otherwise the other civs will be tempted to kick your ass because you are virtually defenseless.

Thanks for reading this Wall o' Text, I hope this helps some of you eco-crashers.

Two pieces of advice:

Find economic resources and build starbases on them, and add as many of the extraction modules as you can. This makes it easier to get tax income from your citizens regardless of the current ta rate.

Don't run what you can't afford. Labs and factories each usually incur a maintenance fee, and then on top of that you have to actually pay for whatever research or production you're doing. Since the initial colony does have some industry and research from the get-go, it might be wise to not build labs or factories on the tiles of some colonies until you have an income surplus.

I have realized that in TA, when you're doing the initial colony rush, many times it's best to build nothing until the population gets to like 3 or 4 billion, that way the spending and maintenance costs are offset by the tax revenue. This wasn't as much of an issue in DL or DA, but in TA it's big.

Also being Torians is great cuz you keep your approval at 100% and the population EXPLOOOOODES. It's frickin great. You fill your 8bil populations so damn fast and have lots of tasty tax revenue to max out research and or build structures and ships. I used to think it was stupid til I tried it. Now I'm hooked.

Interesting, when i colonize a planet, I immediately plop a building on each site and let them build as time marches on, I guess I better stop doing that. But I figured that's the way that I make coin in the game (you see I know nothing about the game really), and thought that having those factories or research buildings or movie theaters or some other social buildng there would attract people to the planet who would pay their taxes etc.

With only a few exceptions (recruiting center, fertility clinic, aphrodisiacs trade good) the buildings you have do not affect population growth.

My usual pattern is to load the planet on colonization, too. But I front load it with some long build time buildings - maintenance doesn't apply until the building is finished.

I had horrible problems with my economy until I started following one simple rule:

Get your Production Capacity slider to 100% as soon as you can afford it, and LEAVE it there.

Do NOT build more production buildings unless that slider can sit comfortably at 100%.

Factories and labs cost the same amount of maintenance whether they're operating at 100% efficiency or at 40%. Building a second factory to double your build rate when you've got your slider set at 50% is just horrible, and can easily wreck an early economy.

I feel that the only reason you should ever turn that slider down is if you have to compensate for some disaster, like a bad economy event, or something like that.

I know it seems counter-intuitive, because it certainly did to me when I first started playing (not that long ago), but building lots of buildings quickly can be very bad news.

Relax, don't expand too quickly, make sure you have the taxes to support what you've already got before you start building more.

I find the hardest part of the game, economy-wise, is the early colony rush. You have to expand quickly to beat the other guys to the juicy planets, but all of those colonies sucking money is sure to stretch a fledgling economy very thin.

The last thing you want to do is add to the problem by quickly building a bunch of factories and labs on these new planets.

When you colonize a planet, just let it sit there until it has enough population to support its basic colony. The only thing I usually quick-build on a fresh planet is a Recruitment Center, since the faster the planet grows, the faster it'll make money instead of eating it.

The production slider should, in fact, be taken out of the game and set to the 100% equivalent underneath the hood so to speak. It's just confusing for new players, and only the very worst players would ever need to move that thing back down below 100%.

How can you tell what's the 100% equivalent when the game changes every turn ?? Those sliders are fine the way they are.

Maybe, at a certain point in the game, I don't want to build anything but instead, I want to max my research or the military.

Well, researching Interstellar Warfare followed by Space Weapons as first two techs works well for me. Recruitment Centers are cheap to build and their +10% economy and +20% pop growth are extremely useful in early stages of the game. Build one on every colonized planet and wait till colony get positive cash flow. Start building structures afterward.

In initial colony rush it's really hard to keep your spendings at 100% all the time. Initial colonies upkeep is just too expensive. Even Torian with their Superior Breeder ability got problems keeping morale high enough with income being positive at the same time, so their growth is not as high as one would imagine.

If you want bit easier game, play Torians. Put 4 points in economy, 3 in sensors and 1 in morale, plus pick populists as a party. With initial +30% morale it's possible to keep approval at 100% on most planets till pop is up to very reasonable size. And people=taxes=money. Economy is self explaining and high sensor value is useful for picking juicy planets and finding resources earlier.

At some point even PQ4 planets become useful. They can support pop high enough to give you money and they add to influence. Plus constructor once in awhile isn't bad at all.

Another way to earn money is by selling techs. Good diplomacy is useful for this, or you'll be robbed blind. Research a tech and sell it to as many minors/majors as you want, with strategical techs being more expensive. Selling one tech to 9 majors and 8 minors can bring tons of money, enough to support your economy for several/many turns.

Very interesting way to earn money, albeit bit hard for novice, is by playing Drath and starting wars between other civs. It may boost income significantly. F.ex. on Large map with abundant planets all major civs (with exception of Drath of course) fighting one another can bring around 1000bc per turn in late early game. That is huge boost to economy, and much easier to achieve than 1000bc income from trade.

There are many ways to get positive cash flow but there's almost no way to avoid at least slight negative cash flow in the early game. Live with that. Just try to get even before you hit -500bc. After all, money are there to spend. Huge treasury is pointless if not used.

We weren't talking about THOSE sliders. The three individual sliders are very useful!

It's the overall production slider that's dangerous. The fourth one at the bottom that turns EVERYTHING down under 100%, all at the same time. Doing so is a total waste of maintenance, and if you have to do it, there's either been a disaster or you need to manage your expansion way better.

I don't agree that the slider should be removed, though. In my current game I've got that "sucky economy" event, and without being able to turn down the production of my whole empire, I'd have to do something like lower research individually, and personally keep an eye on what I built.

Much easier the way it is, but I do agree that it's confusing to new people. (Obviously, since it confused me, and I'm new. ^_^)

Yeah I rarely use it, but it should stay in. I put it to 100% as soon as I start a game and leave it there. Sometimes I need a boost of emergency cash, and I drop it to zero for a turn to fill my coffers. usually when I'm broke and need funds for invasion spending. Also helps occasionally in ZYW, but that lowers my scores so I try to avoid it if possible.

You mean the Industrial Capacity slider ?

No, I mean the Production Capacity slider, as I said. Well, that's what I like to call it, anyway, because- you know- that's what its label says.

I was wrong, though, it's at the top of the others, right under taxation, not at the bottom like I claimed.

Here's my strat for no tech trading/stealing, playing at masochistic as almost all civs:

First, I set spending to 100%, the tax slider to whatever level will give me 100% approval, military to 0%, and social/research about 50% each.

I never build out every tile on the homeworld or a colony until mid-game if I'm pursuing a mixed strategy (i.e. not all-manufacturing; all-research, both of which are extremely difficult without tech-trading).

I always beeline for the recruiting center, and build it first on all colonies - it's cheap and effective. (Another reason Arceans stink- no recruiting center!). It also puts you in a good position to get weapons for early wars.

Next, I usually build out the bonus research and manufacturing tiles. I'm also researching any/all cheap pop growth techs.

Then I cue up morale buildings, anticipating the time I will have to raise taxes. (:(  I'm now researching econ buildings.

After this I usually fill the rest of the "average" planets with econ buildings. Exceptions may be one or two manufacturing/research focus planets.

Even on an immense map I can colonize maybe 10 worlds before my treasury hits -500. This is where creativity comes in. I almost always choose this bonus so I can "research" even when I'm those early depressions. Around turn 30-40 economy will turn around because of pop growth and youll get out of the red and back in the game.

What do you guys think about building planetary improvements first? That leads to +10 in extra production, military, and research right away. And especially right in the beginning, you need all of them and pretty badly. Is the recruiting center's boost to population -- which could amount to, what, 20% improved growth rate of almost NO population in the first place on a new planet, really a better bargain?

By which I mean, the tech "Planetary Improvements," not just improving your planet, of course. As opposed to researching space warfare etc to get to recruiting centers.

I see what you're saying... why not tech to a good passive bonus (planetary imp) rather than a limited active bonus (recruiting center)?

Well, first, those +10 to mil/social/research are computed on base levels, which are not very high on an undeveloped colony.

Also keep in mind that economy is the primary limiting factor in the game ... not your manufacturing or research capacity. It doesn't matter if you have 10 worlds full of factories and research centers if you can't pay to run them.

So, how to pay for them? Taxes from increasing number of citizens enhanced by econ structures. The recruiting center improves both sides of the equation.

And 20% pop growth is nothing to sneeze at! I once forgot to build a recruiting center in an early colony. I compared this to a nearly identical colony that had a recruiting center. The colony without had 0.95 billion, the colony with sheltered nearly 2.5 billion. More importantly, the recruiting center colony was almost breaking even, while the other was losing about 20BC/month.

If those planets were both colonized with 250M pop colony ships, they were not colonized at the same time. I'd guess about a ten turn difference-maybe slightly more.

Your figures seem to imply that you used a 500M colony ship to colonize the second planet (or bussed pop there later on), as there is simply no way that the 20% bonus alone would have given rise to those numbers.

Unless somehow that's a typo and you meant 1.5B; with spored growth that is achievable, but only if you're unlucky on the first planet and lucky on the second. Without spored growth (and without any other population growth bonuses, which due to lowering the relative bonus that a raw 20% growth bonus gives would actually lower the gap), the math is showing approximately 962M to 1266M after 24 turns (at 100% approval). And, for the record, not getting ANY spored growth over greater than a 20 turn period is ridiculously unlikely.

It also seems possible that you somehow neglected to have the first planet at 100% approval, but this seems somewhat unlikely, unless you forgot to build your morale structure there also (which only applies if you normally build one in the colonization stage and did so on the 2.5B planet in question)-an alternative might be if the first planet is sub-class 11 while the second is not, but I'm not sure this adequately explains it, either.

This is of course assuming you weren't playing Super Breeder but if you were then the pop growth bonus would be irrelevant (not because it doesn't increase your gained pop, but because Super Breeder simply doesn't NEED pop growth bonuses).

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Which, again, shows the importance of using 500M colony ships as soon as you are able to. (Unless you're Super Breeder; you don't need them then.) It beats all growth bonuses you can get-at least in the colonization stage. Even with recruiting center + aphrodisiac + 40% from racial points + 10% from universalists, you're only getting 20% more raw growth (or 10% more relative, at 220% to 200% effective) compared to using 500M pop colony ships.

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Don't get me wrong. Recruiting center is good. It is in fact VERY good. But it's not THAT good. And, to be honest, I don't really notice not having it when playing DA games versus TA games. I know, blasphemy, right? But I really don't.

The thing is, to get to planetary improvement, you have to do artificial gravity which gives +5 to population growth too. And I can do that in I think 5 or 6 turns from the start of the game.

Would perhaps the ideal sequence then be Artificial Gravity, Galactic Warfare, and then Space Militarization? That way you are racing for both improvements to population growth. Cost is 50 + 100 + 200.

Not all races get the art. gravity bonus. For example, the Arceans get their early pop growth bonus from "xeno geology" which leads to habitat improvement, weather control and extreme colonization. (Well, Arceans don't get the recruiting center anyhow.) The Yor get their early pop bonus in the miniturization and hull tech line. There are a couple of other significant "deviations" too. So I guess you would have to formulate a race specific strat for "max pop growth".

In addition to all the other benefits, I like teching to recruiting center because it puts me in a good position for space weapons early in the game. Other than Thalan and Arcean I can't think of a race that doesn't get recruiting center...