How Annoying!

WYD in Sydney

from JoeUser Forums

In the next week Sydney will be overtaken by Catholics from around the planet as the pope and his ilk descend on our city for world youth day. Not only is this costing us 92 million tax payer dollars but it is also going to disrupt the entire city with road blocks and road closures. What has also happened is that our state government has passed laws which in effect take away the rights of the citizens of this city to protest. We are coming to know it as the 'Annoyance law". This means that if anyone annoys, irritates or disrupts world youth day events or their participants then they can be arrested and or fined $5500.

This article says it all.. http://blogs.smh.com.au/newsblog/archives/dom_knight/019325.html

Not only is this happening at the moment but it has also been revealed that cardinal Pell the most senior figure of the catholic church in Australia has been covering up sexual abuse cases. He now says that this was an oversight and that he did not correctly read the original documents. (perhaps he was partaking too much of the holy wine?) see this article... http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/10/asia/australia.php

What I would like to know is when did Australia become a theocracy and how long are the people going to put up with this state government who seems to think that it can impose apon the people whatever it sees fit at the time withut proper debate or consultation?

world youth nsw democracy politics
23,518 views 30 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

Wow, religious intolerance in Australia, imagine that! I suppose these unwanted visitors won't be spending any money in hotels, restaurants, etc either, the bastards how dare they.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I suppose these unwanted visitors won't be spending any money in hotels, restaurants, etc either, the bastards how dare they.
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As it so happens, they probably won't be. From the pilgrim accommodation they've been showing on the TV, it's mostly school classroom floors and wooden showers with no screens for tens of thousands of Catholics.
While they might be spending some money on food, most parishes are catering for the events, so they won't be looking for much food.
I'd be very surprised if business in Sydney reported much of an increase thanks to World Youth Day - government certainly won't see a return.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I will restate - I do not like hate speech, but I am glad it is free in the US. If apparently no where else.

Protesting the Pope may not appear to be hate speech, but since the precedent has been set on restricting speech, no speech is safe.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nice to see ya blogging Phoenix!
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top

I thought that this forum actually had some people with sense on it, but apparently whatever disdain the posters have for the Catholic Church overrides any common decency that should have been learned as a child. "the pope and his ilk" Comments like that are rude, disgusting, and childish. I see that religious tolerance should only work in one direction.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Sounds like an infringement on your freedom of speech for sure, PB. The US Constitution prohibits that, (as you know) because just as the 'pope and his ilk' have a right to appear and speak in public places, so do those who oppose their views.
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Hey LW.. although we are a democracy here in Oz we do not as yet have a Bill of Rights like you guys in the USA do. This state government seems to think it can impose laws on people without proper debate in the parliament.

I think it is sounding it's own death bell.

I suppose these unwanted visitors won't be spending any money in hotels, restaurants, etc either, the bastards how dare they.
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Well actually in the town where I am there are 2000 visitors staying. Most of them have been bilited out to families who are spending their own money to look after these people. My mother was telling me today how a family has Africans staying with them and because it is winter here in Oz at the moment they didnt come prepared and so they had to buy warmer clothes for these people.

As it so happens, they probably won't be. From the pilgrim accommodation they've been showing on the TV, it's mostly school classroom floors and wooden showers with no screens for tens of thousands of Catholics. While they might be spending some money on food, most parishes are catering for the events, so they won't be looking for much food.
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Exactly! It is exactly what is happening right here where I live.

Nice to see ya blogging Phoenix!
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Thanks Forever :)

ut apparently whatever disdain the posters have for the Catholic Church overrides any common decency that should have been learned as a child.
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Well if the priests had actually shown some self restraint when I was a child then I would have learnt to have some respect for the catholic church, the pope and his ilk.. I do not trust men in dresses.

 

Reply #7 from PolMach Forums Top
Sounds
[/quote] Well if the priests had actually shown some self restraint when I was a child then I would have learnt to have some respect for the catholic church, the pope and his ilk.. I do not trust men in dresses.
 
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As a Catholic I am truly sorry and offended for whatever happened to you when you were a child, and it is unacceptable, but to demonize an entire group of people or every person of a specific profession is not the way to make relations any better. In my view this Pope has handled the crisis exceptionally and has been nothing but wonderful to victims.

Once again I am saddened by this as any good Catholic should be but referring to Catholics as ilk is inappropriate and indecent.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

Once again I am saddened by this as any good Catholic should be but referring to Catholics as ilk is inappropriate and indecent.
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Im sorry if I have offended you. I don't intend to place all catholics in the same basket. My experience has shown me something very different to what the ordinary person on the street has experienced. Cathoicism to me has shown me fear and guilt, I cannot walk into a church without feeling nausea, I have nightmares, etc. No amount of saying Im sorry will make up for the amount of trauma I have experienced.

I was taught never to question any doctrine of the church. When I did I was made to feel like shit. I was taught that I would burn in hell for who I am. That my expression of love was hated by god.

This church is not a church of love. It is one of fear and guilt.

My relationship with God thankfully is nothing like that and maybe I had to go through all these experiences in order to find my truth.

There is something more sinister about this pope. And I guess time will tell.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
The pope and his ilk.
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I'm sorry but I don't quite get which of these words is supposed to be "rude, disgusting, and childish". Did I miss something?

What is in fact rude, totally disgusting, and childish, is enacting a law that prohibits free people from expressing themselves. Talk about intolerance!
Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top
The pope and his ilk. I'm sorry but I don't quite get which of these words is supposed to be "rude, disgusting, and childish". Did I miss something?What is in fact rude, totally disgusting, and childish, is enacting a law that prohibits free people from expressing themselves. Talk about intolerance!
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Mason I was referring to the apparent disregard that the OP has for an entire community of people as for the law I agree with the OP in that regard so I also agree with you. The major problem here was the manner that I felt the poster made their point. The point was a good point the presentation was lacking so to speak. I love free speech and am glad we have the right to express it in our country i'm sure you agree.

As for this conversation... all points have been made and since we are all capable of disagreeing without being disagreeable can we agree to end this coversation now.

Pleased to speak with you.

And Phoenix... time will tell and I hope you are wrong.

Adios
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
As for this conversation... all points have been made and since we are all capable of disagreeing without being disagreeable can we agree to end this coversation now.
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Well since it isn't your thread or blog it's pretty disrespectful of you to presume to call and end to the discussion don't you think?

I understand the OP's ire over this inane legal act which was reflected in the OP. I think it's too bad you chose to post some sort of defensive rebuke without ever bothering to acknowledge the validity of the actual complaint voiced, choosing instead to defend some imagined slight that wasn't even presented because you didn't like the "tone" of the post.

as for the law I agree with the OP in that regard so I also agree with you.
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That law was the real point of the post and the one you chose to ignore.
Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top
I am not demanding an end to the conversation just merely saying that I didnt find anything more needed to be said.

Apparently I was wrong.

I should have as you say also commented on the point of the law.

I will apologize for being defensive it is just that where I live I am constantly confronted with people who don't like me because of my religion and this has made me very defensive in that respect.

I sincerely hope that if this convo does continue it can be one of mutual respect and a debate about the issues

Thanks.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top

Phoenix,

First of all it is good to see you.

Secondly, I complete agree with you about what is happening here.  It has NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church and EVERYTHING to do with Iemma's government.  The fact that the Catholic Church tried to distance itself from the 'annoyance' legislation should speak volumes.

Wow, religious intolerance in Australia, imagine that! I suppose these unwanted visitors won't be spending any money in hotels, restaurants, etc either, the bastards how dare they.
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Did you even read the post, Nitrocruiser?  I didn't read any religious intolerance in the article unless you count the description 'the pope and his ilk' as intolerance.  If this is the case, then I think you're being overly sensitive.  The only example of intolerance occurring here is the intolerance the State government has for those taxpayers who want to have their say without being called 'annoying'.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Once again I am saddened by this as any good Catholic should be but referring to Catholics as ilk is inappropriate and indecent.

Im sorry if I have offended you. I don't intend to place all catholics in the same basket. My experience has shown me something very different to what the ordinary person on the street has experienced. Cathoicism to me has shown me fear and guilt, I cannot walk into a church without feeling nausea, I have nightmares, etc. No amount of saying Im sorry will make up for the amount of trauma I have experienced.
I was taught never to question any doctrine of the church. When I did I was made to feel like shit. I was taught that I would burn in hell for who I am. That my expression of love was hated by god.
This church is not a church of love. It is one of fear and guilt.
My relationship with God thankfully is nothing like that and maybe I had to go through all these experiences in order to find my truth.
There is something more sinister about this pope. And I guess time will tell.
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I appreciate your exchange here PB. And I also empathize with your dilemma. I can only say that I am glad I was raised in a different church, that coincidentally had the same pope. It is unfortunate you had such a bad experience and I can understand your aversion to the church now. But as PoliJunkie says, the "Church" is not a man or building, but all the people within the faith. I know you aversion is to the authoritarian figures that taught you hate instead of love. I also applaud you for seeing that with your response above. Know this much. While there are many who would do you harm because of their strict and blind adherence to their faith, there are many times many more that would accept you with love because of that same faith.

The key is to find the others, even if they are in a different creed/church. I hope you do.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Did you even read the post, Nitrocruiser? I didn't read any religious intolerance in the article unless you count the description 'the pope and his ilk' as intolerance.
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Sure I read the article. And yes I did pick up an intolerant vibe whether or not the author intended it or not.  How should one interpret "the Pope and his ilk"? What exactly is his “ilk”? Only the author knows and doesn't elaborate. The author then goes into the cost and inability to protest the visit. So call me crazy for putting two and two together. IMO the tone of the article is anti-catholic. That’s Ok if that is the authors intent, but should be more clearly defined (the posted comments shed a little more light on the authors feelings).

Now let me qualify my statements. I'm the last person that should defend any religion. I think any church I walk into would go up in flames it's been so long since I've been, not my cup of tea. But I do think the Pope is a respectable man, I might not agree with everything he supports, but I believe he is doing some good in the world. I've read nothing to change that opinion and I try not to base my perception of a person I never met on others opinions.

I've been to Australia (wouldn't mind returning, it was a nice time). I see plenty of travel ads in the US for Australia, so I know the country wants people to visit. The author here does not mention the financial means of the visitors, so it's logical to assume that if someone visits a country, that country would hope to make a good enough impression so that the people might return or tell their friends, all good for tourism. So I thought it interesting, if the author’s feelings are widespread among other Australians, how this would be interpreted by potential tourists. Religious intolerance is exactly how the front page would read if there were massive protests. Disagree if you like.

Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top
little-whip

While I do know what ilk means you are correct in that I assigned a negative connotation to it for which I have apologized and have already acknowledged the fact that I was defensive when I shouldn't have been. Religion is something that gets to me so I will limit myself to speaking more on matters of Politics and the 08' election.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

hey PB good to "see" yer mug around again. We do seem to have gathered a few Newbees, that seem to home in on a word or two, Immediately draw a conclusion about the author {racist, Bigot, Homophob>> etc.} And miss the entire point the author was trying to express.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

What is in fact rude, totally disgusting, and childish, is enacting a law that prohibits free people from expressing themselves. Talk about intolerance!
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My point exactly Mason

As for this conversation... all points have been made and since we are all capable of disagreeing without being disagreeable can we agree to end this coversation now.
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Excuse me?

Well since it isn't your thread or blog it's pretty disrespectful of you to presume to call and end to the discussion don't you think?
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Thankyou!

That law was the real point of the post and the one you chose to ignore.
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Exactly.

First of all it is good to see you.
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Thanks Maso good to see you too!

The only example of intolerance occurring here is the intolerance the State government has for those taxpayers who want to have their say without being called 'annoying'.
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This is what I think is annoying... http://www.smh.com.au/news/world-youth-day/leave-your-cars-at-home/2008/07/14/1215887540820.html

The key is to find the others, even if they are in a different creed/church. I hope you do.
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I have :)

Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top

What exactly is his “ilk”? Only the author knows and doesn't elaborate.
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Im sure you have a dictionary :)

You know what's REALLY annoying? People who take offense over a word like 'ilk', assigning a negative connotation to it that simply does not exist. I see it's time for a basic vocabulary lesson.
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I love you Whip :)

I assigned a negative connotation to it
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Maybe you need to see a priest about that.

hey PB good to "see" yer mug around again. We do seem to have gathered a few Newbees, that seem to home in on a word or two, Immediately draw a conclusion about the author {racist, Bigot, Homophob>> etc.} And miss the entire point the author was trying to express.
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Thanks Moderateman. Has anything changed??

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have
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That is more important than any single faith, and the reason there are so many.

I am glad you have found your faith home. Dont be a stranger! Good to see you back as well.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top

if the author’s feelings are widespread among other Australians, how this would be interpreted by potential tourists. Religious intolerance is exactly how the front page would read if there were massive protests. Disagree if you like.
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If anything, people here are going to be protesting not because they disagree with Catholics or they don't like the Pope but because the State government has said they can't.  I have read that quite a number of organisations who had no protests organised and weren't even considering protesting the Pope's visit and WYD08 have now organised protests because of the draconian 'annoyance' law.  This is not about religious intolerance, it is about freedom of speech.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
So I thought it interesting, if the author’s feelings are widespread among other Australians, how this would be interpreted by potential tourists. Religious intolerance is exactly how the front page would read if there were massive protests. Disagree if you like.
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Heaven forbid a government put it's people's rights ahead of money!
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thankfully, the Australian Federal Court has seen sense. This is a win for free speech, not for, as some might think, intolerance.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world-youth-day/court-dumps-annoy-law/2008/07/15/1215887596459.html
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top

Thankfully, the Australian Federal Court has seen sense. This is a win for free speech, not for, as some might think, intolerance.
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Awesome!! FInally some sense. :)

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is not about religious intolerance, it is about freedom of speech.
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Thank you! And good luck with the protests!