I would like to point out that I think its nice that you convieniently changed around what I said, and although some of the things I stated sound rather stupid, I just think its funny.

Not to mention you did not even read what I wrote about 9/11. In fact, you probably only saw 9/11 and thought to yourself : Well, there is another liberal going off on how 9/11 wasn't real... blah blah blah... I wouold like to tell you that I beileve 9/11 did happen, but our president used that as an excuse to invade a country that, although had a dicator who should have been imprisioned for his terrible crimes, was generally innocent.

And I also like how you skip over the Barrack Obama part of my statement. Do you agree with me, or are you just afraid to dip your feet in the water?

But back to what you said about Gay Marriage. Its fine that you have views that state you do not like Gay Marriage, but on a governmental level? Are you in office? Are you the president? I think not. If you really want the President to ban Gay Relationships, by all means, send him a letter.

And what does global warming have to do with this? I stated no where that Global Warming was the Conservatives problem (although I will take the time to point out that most Oil Companies are run by Conservatives).

The problem with Conservatives is there views are so... dated. Tried and true does not equal success. America was founded on the ideals of inovation, from a scientific standpoint to a political standpoint, and that goes with being Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican.

Trust me, if you can come up with factual evidence that will sway me, I will gladly hop over. But until then, lets just flame.

You failed to mention what "lies" the War was based upon. Oh, and by the way, they actually did find WMD in the form of yellowcake (inriched uranium) which has now been taken to Canada.

"On another note, we have made a deficit so huge, it will take forever to clean up, and soldiers from all countries have been killed."

You do realize that this has been one of the wars with the lowest death rates of all time, don't you?
And we were already in debt up ot to the moon and back.

I know Barack's not islamic. It's kind of obvious. (except to some, well, odd people)

My veiws are not dated, they're just not socialist...


My added tips:

Barak Obama supports universal health care. Where do you think he's going to get the money to do that (talk about national debt...).

He did not visit the wounded vetren's hospital in Germany because he couldn't take his entorauge with him.

He will say that "The surge worked" but he will not simply admit that HE WAS WRONG. That's all I want to hear, and I know it's not that hard to say, but will he say it, no.

He thinks nuclear reactors can go "BOOM." How naive is that? The only reason nuclear bombs blow up is because they include an ACTUAL BOMB, it's not the uraniums. That just magnifies the explosion. What about radiation leaks. Out of the HUNDREDS of reactors world-wide, only a select few have overloaded. Since then, containment research has improved significantly.

I'm actually against wind power because out here in the almost middle of almost nowhere, you see the windmills that totally distroy the scenery!

Almost all media in the US is corrupt.

Talking will only go so far. Sooner or later, you have to act.

If Obama was just going to Europe, etc. to take a whirlwind tour of foreign affairs, why does he campaign for AMERICAN presidant in a foreign country. Why?

I'm tired......

That you've met people more stupid than yourself isn't beyond belief, so I will accept your statement that there are conservatives saying Obama is a Muslim because his cousin is. I do believe this is the first time I've even heard such, I wasn't aware of his cousin at all.

Edit:(Rather than reword this first paragraph, I'll just note that it isn't actually meant to be inflammatory, it's entirely literal. Any other offensive statements in this post were meant as such.:))

A question though, what exactly does that have to do with anything? Unlike Obama's Muslim ties, which are real, and lead to an exceedingly small percentage of the horribly ignorant thinking he's a Muslim because his cousin is, the majority of liberals think CO2 is pollution!

Now if you want to broad brush a political leaning for the idiocy of a percentage of it, I'd say one with completely no founding that encompasses a plurality is far more important than one with limited founding that encompasses far less.

To avoid the inevitable, as you obviously will refute it, yes, CO2 isn't pollution. The label of greenhouse gas does not make something pollution, there is a certain compound found in all life in vast quantities that happens to fall from the sky and is also a greenhouse gas. Perhaps you've heard of it?

CO2 is a necessary compound, vital to the continued existence of flora worldwide. The more CO2 we pump out, and the process of life makes vastly more than industry does, so much so that it's downright hilarious we're even worried, the more trees we feed. Where do you think all that wood comes from? They aren't carbon sinks because they need to clean the air, they're carbon sinks because life on earth is comprised almost entirely of hydrocarbons. No carbon, no life.

Liberals, generally, can be summed up thusly. Change is good. Look at history, good change is a process of elimination, one catastrophic fuck up after another. Thousands of civilizations have risen and fallen to get the logical courses of action that this country was founded on. The progressive ideals aren't even new, they're already been done failures of the past.

We founded this country on the rather sound principles of a substantially educated group of people. The musings of philosophers, critics and revolutionaries that came before them were the foundation of their own ideals, the failings of past governments the evidence that they had a better idea. They didn't found a government that was supposed to be one great evolution towards progress, they were terrified of it and put quite a lot of effort into constructing a government that could change as little as possible. Jefferson still warned that we'd need a revolution every so often to unfuck the place. We're more than a century overdue by his estimation, and about sixty years beyond necessity by my observations. Government was supposed to be small, limited in power, with specific roles, the primary ones being to provide for the common defense and form relations with other governments.

The root of the conservative ideal is that the collective knowledge of the whole is vastly greater than the collective knowledge of the few or the one. It's entirely logical, unavoidable. No one man can know everything, the more power one man has, the more people that one man will fuck up. Even with the best intentions, regulations can never be written that will not hinder society. The more it controls, the more decay it creates. If you really are interested, proof abounds. Reading anything by Thomas Sowell would be an excellent start.

I think Republicans are evil! They're polluting the air and killing the turtles! On a more serious note is how backward much of our own country is. I mean I find it offensive that we African Americans are expected the be humble about our victories when McCain was spouting stuff all around the world once he won the Republican nomination. Its such a double standard.

I feel like anything Obama does will come under scrutiny when McCain make all the mistakes he wants. McCain's is one the worst speakers I've ever seen. The only thing that has been keeping him afloat is his international experience. However, when he dares Obama to go overseas to meet with many of the world's leaders and Obama actually takes him up on it, he panics and resorts to underhanded criticism typical of Republicans. The Republicans are getting desperate and it makes me smile. Its just so frustrating when someone tries so hard to ruin a good thing. God those Republicans make me so angry!

*Here we go again*

First off, I would like to state that I quoted you without changing any wording in your post.

-Quote, post #26 by GrooveMan23-
I would like to point out that I think its nice that you convieniently changed around what I said, and although some of the things I stated sound rather stupid, I just think its funny. Not to mention you did not even read what I wrote about 9/11.
-BREAK-

I read it. And yes, I did read your entire post about using 9/11 as an excuse blah blah blah. Let's see what your fellow liberals have to say about Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1q9Q0OtJ4g

-UNBREAK-
In fact, you probably only saw 9/11 and thought to yourself : Well, there is another liberal going off on how 9/11 wasn't real... blah blah blah... I wouold like to tell you that I beileve 9/11 did happen, but our president used that as an excuse to invade a country that, although had a dicator who should have been imprisioned for his terrible crimes, was generally innocent. And I also like how you skip over the Barrack Obama part of my statement.
-BREAK-

Did YOU read my post?

-UNBREAK-
Do you agree with me, or are you just afraid to dip your feet in the water?

-BREAK-
Are you afraid to read my posts completely?

-UNBREAK-
But back to what you said about Gay Marriage. Its fine that you have views that state you do not like Gay Marriage, but on a governmental level? Are you in office? Are you the president? I think not. If you really want the President to ban Gay Relationships, by all means, send him a letter.

-BREAK-
You didn't even understand my point I was trying to make, did you?

-UNBREAK-
And what does global warming have to do with this? I stated no where that Global Warming was the Conservatives problem (although I will take the time to point out that most Oil Companies are run by Conservatives).The problem with Conservatives is there views are so... dated.
-BREAK-

And for good reason, the Democrats want to shut down oil companies or penalize them for selling oil! But the sad fact is, You get rid of them, and there goes the economy!

-UNBREAK-
Tried and true does not equal success. America was founded on the ideals of inovation, from a scientific standpoint to a political standpoint, and that goes with being Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican.
-BREAK-

... Yeah, but Liberals aren't allowing much innovation in government right now. (See Congress, Wikipedia)

What's the point when Tried-and-true works better than socialism, which was tried and un-true?

-UNBREAK-
Trust me, if you can come up with factual evidence that will sway me, I will gladly hop over.

-BREAK-
Liberals like you (aka already decided dems) can't be convinced by facts because you call lies facts.

-UNBREAK-
But until then, lets just flame.

-BREAK-
I don't know but it seems like you're trying to play yourself off as a martyr for liberalism. Seems quite the opposite to me.

Any observers of this conversation see that consistency with his posts?

Heroic Herald. I hope you aren't being serious. If you are I ask you to promptly leave the thread and go watch some Hannity and Colmes.

Maybe the irrefutable proof that Saddam had strong connections with Al Quaeda?

That Saddam possessed WMDs which could be "activated" within 45 minutes and posed a threat to British interests?

The mobile biological labs?



They found a large stash of concentrated natural uranium, not enriched. To say that it classifies as a wmd is like saying a bag of fertilizer is a lethal bomb.

i giggled at a few of the quips, but for the most part i agree with Zy- not very funny.

and this is coming from someone who agrees with everything the guy said, or perhaps thinks he didn't go far enough in some cases. i'm a leftist american, and i can't help but think of most of my compatriots as 'sheeple.'

As much as I probably should stay out of this discussion (Having 3 kids has made me not the most patient man in the matter of discussion) I do have something to re-post from a post of mine on the "political machine" forums as it deals directly with the topic of "national perception" which I believe to be an underlying current in this and every political thread.

As nations of this earth we should be focused on "helping" and not "policing" one another. As with siblings, an older, wiser sibling can often with great success be a formidable role-model to the younger less experienced ones. This of course is only really possible when the "older/wiser sibling" assumes the role of "helper" within the family and puts aside his/her own selfish interests.

The US often chooses to be looked at as the "big brother", "policeman", "referee" of this world. It's too bad then that the US seems incapable of seperating itself from it's own interests when attempting to show an interest in others.




that's all folks,


the Monk

Crap, I told myself I wouldn't start a flame war (even though I practically stated in the original statement that I was). I apologize for the problems I may have caused.

And that is where I end this.

I won't add any gas to the fire, but I have a simple request.

dwood15: please use the [ quote ] and [ /quote ] tags (without the spaces, of course). That will make your posts far easier to follow.

Monk, that may be true of our worthless fuck politicians picking and choosing which wars to half finish, but it's entirely inaccurate for a description of our country. We are by far the most charitable nation on earth apart from the government, and the vast majority of the overseas work the government does is unnoticed.

Every time some third world shit tard country gets decimated by a minor natural event, our military saves more lives than the rest of the world combined when they aren't blocked from access. The aid capacity of a single carrier battle group dwarfs anything the other nations can put together, and we use them.

psychoak,

I wasn't talking about aid capacity I was talking about aid motivation. Two very different things as I posted above. If you're going to respond to my posts I would appreciate them not being taken out of context.

A tiny example of my point as above....

My wife had a problem passing a certain level in a game she loves. After watching her struggling with said level for days on end and wanting to support my wife in every way, I edited a certain .ini file which ever so slightly slowed said level down (I mean not noticable unless you knew to look for it). She has now finally passed said level and is happily playing the rest of the game (un-modded). She will never know I "helped" her along the way.....she will only know how proud I am of her for sticking it out and finishing the game.

In said above example my wife doesn't need to hear how great of a computer-nerd I am, or how I "helped" her pass over the "trials" of said terrible level. That would do nothing but serve my own interests (in this case.....sense of pride and accomplishment).


True charity is the work one does in silence (without recognition), while the rest stand around boasting.

the Monk

I think we should all just cool down! What does this all really accomplish, blaming one another for the worlds ills? Can't we just forget our differences and play some video games? Please?

Does anyone else think the name of this thread is funny? America isn't perfect, but we sure never had death camps.

nothing about this thread is funny, especially the opening "comedy" routine.

Agreed. And maybe a little bit late but I don't care

You peons and your pathetic politics. One day I will take over the world, so who you elect president is of little consequence.

But I do derive some twisted satisfaction in watching the future feudal estates of my world order pointing at each other and shouting meaningless obscenities. Ah... It reminds me of my days perched atop the jungle gym of my elementary school, forcing the other children to fight to the end in caged deathmatches.

-Dr. B

The harder I can make it for you to take over the world, the better.

The more I can annoy you, the funnier.

:D:D:D:D

j/k

Yes, but yellowcake isn't as common as say, fertilizer and it could be very easily have been made into a bomb. OK, I rest my case now.

 

Actually that was funny. Why is everyone pointing the finger at someone else? Why are you pointing your finger at people not even born when the thing happened you are mentioning?If i wanted to point fingerst too i would suggest u to visit this: http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html

But i do not want to point fingers at the past, i do not see any reason in it besides flaming and getting the temperaments heated up in such a discussion. So your ancestors killed indians, mine killed jews, fundamental muslims want to kill christians, in fact some christians want to do that reverse - it is all the same and never will be another way. Except one time when everyone realizes that its stupid animalistic behaviour and has the skill to disconnect from that aspect of human nature to a point where reason gives the ability to ascend over that point. At the moment we only think, we can evolve beyond that and subconsciously are behaving the same way as we did when living in caves. Realistically observed this point never will come and is only a fantasy of do-gooders. Mankind is an animal by definition and will ever be, so we have to deal with the negative aspects of it as well.

 

What i wanted to do with this thread is not mainly to make everyone laugh. I just wanted to get an image of the american stance towards criticism and get another side of the view i got of it from my home country. My uncle lived in the US for a couple of years and now lives in Canada and what he told me the americans are holding to their patriotism very strictly. My uncle sees the reason for this in the absence of a deep historical identity of the american, requiring them to have a deep need for a national identity and therefore blocking everything that contradicts this identity without being able to rationally process the way their country works. Actually comments like yours do support this thesis strongly. As said here before the main picture we europeans have of US citizens is, that they are mostly an non-intellectual folk, preferring talkshows and local news over sophisticated political and scientific education in a more global fashion. It was also stated before, that this may be the result of "reverse psychology" by the UN. Of course that might be and it was my intention with this thread to get an impression of the intellectual niveau the arguments are based on. "Your past was bad"-argumentation definitely does not work in your favor btw...

dystopic mentioned the word "sheepled" and that (after referring the meaning) definitely points out the way americans are seen in germany. But as i said - me as living in germany cannot really decide whether i live "sheepled" too, because the only information we receive gets filtered through media as well. Its not that our media is controlled or censored, its just that the capitalistic nature of it tends to blur reality in a way that may be negative to the image we have of others because "thats what people want to see". Actually we do have a bunch of tv programs that are not dependend on advertise, but the influence politics have on them as well cannot really be determined easily as well because the owners of these companies often are politic themselves.

But in whole i think i can say Germany especially has become VERY sensitive in the past towards anything that regards giving power away to superordinate structures. This projects onto the EU in whole, and with this come the difficulties of it. This is the root of a critical attitude towards the USA, because they do not share those experiences of the past. We view patriotism, nationalism, dutifulnes towards authority and all those things americans value more in a very critical way. It may be our historical past that lets us critically observe the way America is controlled and the masses are influenced by the media in another way the american civilian does. I think we are not immune to this as well, it maybe is a part of social structure in general, but at least the european identity still is a bit paralyzed by the events of the past. That is not a bad thing, it just encourages to view things in a very critical way. And observing the same approach  with a patriotic pathos to enlarge influence and might just reminds us too hard of the mistakes of the past.

 

 

Lious CK and Zach Galafinakis, now those are funny as hell guys.  Not sure if I spelled their names right :p