News Flash: I don't hate america

from JoeUser Forums
I have had it up to here (indicates eye level) with some of the users of this site constantly calling me and other independent minded thinkers treasonous, anti-american and America-hating. I don't know any american that hates America. I don't know anyone that hates capitialism. We all love america, its just that some of us are independent enough to question some of the things that our government does. Some of us loved what was happening in this country, and what this country was doing, better under Clinton, however I can tell you that I have never felt such love for my country as I did following September 11th. Just beacause we don't love what Bush is doing does NOT mean that we don't love our country. It has now become apparent to me that according to many users of this site, questioning the actions of our country, which I might add is what is supposed to happen in a democracy, is unpatriotic and indicates a hatred of america. On the contrary, if i hear anymore of this nonsense being spewed out at me, I will just have to assume that the "right" hates america, and hates the democracy that we have. I guess you would all perfer if it was a "right" dictatorship. I know Bush has expressed that it would be easier for him if it was a dictatorship. I guess Bush hates america. I have had enough.
politics
13,919 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
News Flash: I don't hate america

By: sandy2
Posted: Sunday, October 17, 2004 on Independent Left leaning Rants and Raves
Message Board: Politics
I have had it up to here (indicates eye level) with some of the users of this site constantly calling me and other independent minded thinkers treasonous, anti-american and America-hating. I don't know any american that hates America. I don't know anyone that hates capitialism. We all love america, its just that some of us are independent enough to question some of the things that our government does. Some of us loved what was happening in this country, and what this country was doing, better under Clinton, however I can tell you that I have never felt such love for my country as I did following September 11th. Just beacause we don't love what Bush is doing does NOT mean that we don't love our country. It has now become apparent to me that according to many users of this site, questioning the actions of our country, which I might add is what is supposed to happen in a democracy, is unpatriotic and indicates a hatred of america. On the contrary, if i hear anymore of this nonsense being spewed out at me, I will just have to assume that the "right" hates america, and hates the democracy that we have. I guess you would all perfer if it was a "right" dictatorship. I know Bush has expressed that it would be easier for him if it was a dictatorship. I guess Bush hates america. I have had enough


I can totally understand how you would not like being called unpatriotic. But as far as the rest of us voicing our opinions on others that we feel don't love America.....I have one word for you. "Tough"!
Reply #2 from PolMach Forums Top
Listen Sandy, either you agree with Bush or you hate America. NO dissent will be allowed and to even question our motives will be considered unpatriotic. During the second term the ammended Partiot Act will take care of people like you. We are right, you are wrong, God has told us so and if you don't agree with God, then you MUST hate America because America is founded on God.
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Reply #3 from PolMach Forums Top
"Listen Sandy, either you agree with Bush or you hate America. NO dissent will be allowed and to even question our motives will be considered unpatriotic. During the second term the ammended Partiot Act will take care of people like you. We are right, you are wrong, God has told us so and if you don't agree with God, then you MUST hate America because America is founded on God."

Jockoj, I strongly disagree with you (unless your argument is satrical, which, after reading your message, is very possible)

First, disagreeing with the government is NOT unpatriotic. If it was, the right-wing people could be considered "unpatriotic" for the stuff they said during Clinton's administration. Second, in America we have the RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH which means that the we can say whatever we want and the government can't arrest us UNLESS there is a presidential administration that decides to break the constitution like the Bush administration has which, in my opinion, is more unpatriotic then exercizing a right given to Americans to say what they want. Finally, America is NOT founded on God. The whole reason that we revolted against England was unfair taxation which has NOTHING to do with god.(A guy named Benjamin Franklin questioned the divinity of Jesus and nobody called him unpatriotic) Also, most of the colonies were NOT founded on religious purposes. Only three colonies (Maryland, Massachusets, and Pennsylvania) were founded for religious puposes, while two were founded to seperate church and state (Rhode Island and Connecticut), one was founded as a place for debtors to get a fresh start (Georgia), one was a part of Pennsylvania that became its own colony (Delaware) and five were founded to expand trade (New York, New Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina). As for New Hampshire, I don't know why it became a colony.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jockoj, I strongly disagree with you (unless your argument is satrical, which, after reading your message, is very possible)

First, disagreeing with the government is NOT unpatriotic. If it was, the right-wing people could be considered "unpatriotic" for the stuff they said during Clinton's administration. Second, in America we have the RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH which means that the we can say whatever we want and the government can't arrest us UNLESS there is a presidential administration that decides to break the constitution like the Bush administration has which, in my opinion, is more unpatriotic then exercizing a right given to Americans to say what they want. Finally, America is NOT founded on God. The whole reason that we revolted against England was unfair taxation which has NOTHING to do with god.(A guy named Benjamin Franklin questioned the divinity of Jesus and nobody called him unpatriotic) Also, most of the colonies were NOT founded on religious purposes. Only three colonies (Maryland, Massachusets, and Pennsylvania) were founded for religious puposes, while two were founded to seperate church and state (Rhode Island and Connecticut), one was founded as a place for debtors to get a fresh start (Georgia), one was a part of Pennsylvania that became its own colony (Delaware) and five were founded to expand trade (New York, New Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina). As for New Hampshire, I don't know why it became a colony.


Im pretty sure it was for humor
Reply #5 from PolMach Forums Top
First, disagreeing with the government is NOT unpatriotic


Yes it is.

Second, in America we have the RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH


Not really, I have helped to drag protesters out of Bush rallies I have worked for. The SS, and FBI actually do the dragging and I do the walkie-talkie work. If you're wearing a Kerry button you don't have a right to see your President speak.

Also, we are working to make offensive things that are currently considered "free speech" illegial. In a second term we will have a constitution ammendment against flag buring and desecration and other things that are offensive to people who love their country and love God.

Finally, America is NOT founded on God.


Please, need I remind you of "In God we trust." Look at the money. We are "one nation under God." All our founding father believed in the only true God, the christian God. The christian God clearly states in Leviticus that homosexuality is an "abomonation". The Bible also says that all of our works shoud glorify the lord. It is being kept quiet but through the church we have recieved Republican assurances that during a second administration the Supreme Court will be realigned and christianity will be back in schools. Prayer, 10 Commandments, and a basic understand that evolution is a fundamentally flawed theory will all be taught in schools once again. God has said ALL of these things and God is never wrong. Schools will also be opened to reform people who have fallen into sin by choosing homosexuality.

I believe if all the America hating God hating liberals just accepted the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts they would see the light.
Reply #7 from PolMach Forums Top
Prove to me your candidate stands for Liberty, if you cannot than I beg to question than why do you support a candidate who stands or does not protect Liberty and would than question your misguided patriotism.

- Grimcolm X
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
When GWB stood up at his State of the Union address and stated "You are either for us or against us" he was not addressing the rest of the world but the American public. You are either for GWB or against America.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
PS Sandy, if you own an American car you better sell it quick before the JU spies see you...a Renault or Peugeot should do you.
Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top
When GWB stood up at his State of the Union address and stated "You are either for us or against us" he was not addressing the rest of the world but the American public. You are either for GWB or against America.


Prove to me your candidate stands for Liberty


I know you are not supporting Bush for this Presidential race, so tell me about YOUR candidate!
Reply #11 from PolMach Forums Top
When GWB stood up at his State of the Union address and stated "You are either for us or against us" he was not addressing the rest of the world but the American public. You are either for GWB or against America.


Wrong, he was saying, that you are either with God or against God. You can be allowed to say and do whatever you want so long at it does not offend God. And by God I mean God's word according to the books cannonized by the Catholic Church up until the reformation. Southern Baptists like me don't beleive in the four books cannonized after the reformation.

I made the news too! I was working the walkie-talkie for the FBI at this occurance.

Three Medford school teachers were threatened with arrest and thrown out of the President Bush rally at the Jackson County Fairgrounds Thursday night, after they showed up wearing T-shirts with the slogan "Protect our civil liberties.


Link
Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top
All I really have to say is "right on" sandy2. Right on.

And to Jockoj: wtf? Is this satire or what?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I live in Australia and we have just had an election where GWB's soul mate was returned with interest. Of the two elections the US one is far more important because of the threat to the rest of the world. I see that he is back in front of the opinion polls, it boggles the mind how a guy can trash the ecconomy (just what is the current deficit?); expand the number of Americans living below the poverty line; increase the number of Americans not covered by any health care; subvert the war on terrorism; embark on a military misadventure with no reason, no plan for managing the country after the invasion and no exit strategy (I understand the butchers bill is now over 1,000 Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis); trash almost all friendly relationships with foreign countries and the UN; lose 3 debates in a row to an obviously more intelligent man and still be leading in the polls.
If you are tempted to tell me, as a foreigner, to mind my own business I will tell you that is exactly what I am doing. If Bush continues to sink the US ecconomy at the same rate as he is going then the rest of the world will be dragged under as well. His simplistic 'bomb the crap out of them' approach to international diplomacy has made this world a far more dangerous place for everyone.
Given 4 more years of this guy it's hard to know what will come first: a global depression or a global nuclear (or nucler in GWB speak) war.
Reply #14 from PolMach Forums Top
I have not told you anything other than pose a question.

Bush will drive up the debt and deficit but lest we forget in our hatred that Kerry will do so as well so the better alternative is not to have anyone who will drive up debt and deficit like good ol' Badnarik.
Reply #15 from PolMach Forums Top
Not really, I have helped to drag protesters out of Bush rallies I have worked for.


THAT BASTARD!!! He should just let in all the ANTI BUSH (notice i didnt say pro-kerry) run in on the convention and protest while he is giving a speech. The right to free speech doesnt mean you can scream and yell at a private convention.

In a second term we will have a constitution ammendment against flag buring and desecration


Holy hell.... are you serious? Flag burning is my favorite past time.... Alright thats it, Im going to charge in the RNC next election screaming like a freaking idiot about how awefull that candidate is.
The act of flag burning/desecrating is as vile as public nudity as far as I am concerned.

All our founding father believed in the only true God, the christian God.


That may be true, but despite what you may think, there were many colonials that weren't Christian. Many Jewish people had come to America seeking religous tolerance. Saying that the God we based our country on is JUST Christian is ignorant.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
P.S. Sadly, I believe GWB will win in Nov. For some reason conservatives seem to understand how to manipulate fear and greed far better than non-conservatives. I think it is something to do with the way they present the world: black vs white, good vs evil, for us vs against us. Non conservatives see the shades of grey, but of course black and white plays a lot better on a 15 second sound bight than shades of grey which take a little longer to explain.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bush will drive up the debt and deficit but lest we forget in our hatred that Kerry will do so as well so the better alternative is not to have anyone who will drive up debt and deficit like good ol' Badnarik.


But it is a race in two.
Reply #18 from PolMach Forums Top
But it is a race in two.


HAH!
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
And to Gerry- Please stop regurgitating the same liberal rhetoric that Kerry is feeding you.


For the stuff on the American ecconomy I relied on a report in the newspaper ( a reputable one ) from several days back and if you can send me any data to dispute this then I will retract.
As to the international situation the details are indisputable and for all to see.
Reply #20 from PolMach Forums Top
For some reason conservatives seem to understand how to manipulate fear and greed far better than non-conservatives.


If you'd take a look at some Kerry commercials going on, youd see grisly scenes of Iraqis being carried off in stretchers, cars blowing up, etc. Talk about manipulating fear??

Non conservatives see the shades of grey


You may see the shades of grey, but all I see is your "non-conservative" candidate straddling the fence to gain support.

Gerry- seems to me you've bought in to all of Kerry's rhetoric. Next your going to tell me that Bush is going to have a draft, right?
Reply #21 from PolMach Forums Top
As to the international situation the details are indisputable and for all to see.


I believe that what we are doing is right... I guess when you say "all" you mean people like yourself.

subvert the war on terrorism


he hasnt

no plan for managing the country after the invasion


could go on and on about this but i will just say one word- election

trash almost all friendly relationships with foreign countries and the UN


Almost all... as in who exactly? Kerry is the one trashing the leaders of other countries. Not only is he not appreciating their contributions to our coalition, but with his pessimism and half-ass way of thinking I am certain he would lose more allies than he would gain. Here in America, we care about ourselves first. Kerry is willing to put other countries in front of the US for political gain.

increase the number of Americans not covered by any health care


So lets spend billions of dollars giving all our citizens really trashy health care!! Kerry's plan is expensive and inefficient.
Reply #22 from PolMach Forums Top
For the stuff on the American ecconomy I relied on a report in the newspaper ( a reputable one ) from several days back and if you can send me any data to dispute this then I will retract.
As to the international situation the details are indisputable and for all to see.


Economists: Bush, Kerry jobs plans fall short [LINK]

Since you want to read news articles about the US Economy I figured you might want to be informed that Both candidates are BAD for the US Economy.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

Wow Sandy, I guess my article hit close to home or something. I didn't name anyone in particular (And wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote it). But I guess if the shoe fits.

Seriously though, the impression we give off is due to what we write.  If someone writes article after article bemoaning everything that the United States does -- it's foreign policy, it's ecoomic system, its political system, how "stupid" its citizens are, well sorry that's anti-American.   I don't follow your blog close enough to know whether that describes you.

But I do follow articles on JU and elsewhere to notice this particular trend in left wing thinking:

1) Most Americans are "stupid" sheep.

2) Our economic system is awful.

3) Our culture is crass and a cancer on the world.

4) Our foreign policy is a great source of evil in the world and in fact the US is the greatest threat to world peace.

5) Our leaders are stupid, warmongering fools.

6) Our country is destroying the environment and affecting global weather.

One can make an argument for any one of these. I would argue that some of these points are absurd and others are pretty debateable. But those people who continually make articles espousing these 6 points in various ways are, surprise surprise, not very patriotic.  If you are against everythign the United States is and stands for, then hey you're anti-American. 

Anti being against.

Let me give you examples from this thread:

P.S. Sadly, I believe GWB will win in Nov. For some reason conservatives seem to understand how to manipulate fear and greed far better than non-conservatives. I think it is something to do with the way they present the world: black vs white, good vs evil, for us vs against us. Non conservatives see the shades of grey, but of course black and white plays a lot better on a 15 second sound bight than shades of grey which take a little longer to explain.

Translation: Americans are a fearful greedy lot that are easily manipulated into voting like mindless sheep. And they are led by simple minded, black and white thinking fools who just can't see how complicated (or "nuanced") the real world is.  Left wingers, by contrast, are deep thinking men and women of subtlety whose message is superior if only the stupid, fearful greedy sheep could grasp it.  But in the meantime, me and others like me will say arrogant patronizing things to show how witty we are like Jock says. Because he, unlike the typical stupid greedy fearful American and their knuckle dragging conservative overlords, is truly enlightened.

 

Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
just wanna know if hes on every state's ballot?


All of them except Oklahoma and New Hampshire, Oklahoma because an old law and New Hampshire because they waited to late to get the signatures they needed.

He is on the ballot in 48 states and DC, which for a third party is quite a feat, because there are 51 different ballot laws for Candidates to be on the ballot.