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Sins of a Solar Empire v1.1 BETA Change Log

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Sins of a Solar Empire v1.1 BETA Change Log

Now Available

from Sins Forums

The next major update for Sins of a Solar Empire is now available!  Since this update is so huge and contains several brand new technologies, we are going to be offering it as an optional beta before its final release. If you are not comfortable with running potentially very buggy software (though we've tried to minimize it), do not install this beta - wait for the final release.

This beta update is available only through Stardock's new Impulse platform. We will no longer be providing standalone patches for future versions of the game. For more information on obtaining the beta and taking part in the testing, please visit: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/319061

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Sins of a Solar Empire v1.09 (aka 1.1 beta) Changelist
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Gameplay / Balance:
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-Kol Battleship:
     -Fix for Finest Hour not applying all of its splash damage correctly.

-Marza Dreadnaught:
     -Fix for Missile Barrage not applying all of its damage correctly. (thx bailknight)
 
-Sova Carrier:
     -Embargo duration reduced from 120 secs at all levels to 60/90/120 secs.
 
-Dunov Battlecruiser:
     -Shield Restore shield points replenished reduced from 350/700/1050 to 250/500/750
     -Shield Restore AM cost reduced from 90 to 65 for all levels
     -Shield Restore cooldown reduced from 16 secs to 11 secs for all levels

-Cielo Command Cruiser:
     -Designate Target damage bonus increased from 25% to 40%.

-Radiance Battleship:
     -Cleansing Brilliance cooldown increased from 75 secs to 120 secs.

-Rapture Battlecruiser:
     -Vengeance antimatter cost decreased from 75 to 70.
     -Vengeance damage retaliated increased from 40%/80%/120% to 65%/130%/200%.
     -Units acquired with Domination will now have their orders reset.

-Domina Subjugator:
     -Suppression antimatter cost decreased from 100 to 75.
     -Suppression cooldown decreased from 40 secs to 30 secs.
     -Suppression duration increased from 40 secs to 90 secs.

-Kortul Devastator:
     -Jam Weapons antimatter cost decreased from 75 to 70.
     -Jam Weapons duration changed from 15/25/35 secs to 30/30/30 secs.
     -Jam Weapons range increased from 3500/4500/5500 to 3500/5000/7000.
     -Disruptive Strikes antimatter depletion increased from 8/10/12 to 10/20/30.
     -Disruptive Strikes ability cooldown rate penalty increased from 10%/20%/30% to 15%/30%/45%.
     -Disruptive Strikes duration increased from 10 secs to 15 secs.
     -Now costs 250 crystal as originally intended. (thx bailknight)

-Skirantra Carrier:
     -Scramble Bombers antimatter cost decreased from 100/75/50 to 80/65/50.
     -Scramble Bombers cooldown decreased from 60/60/60 secs to 60/50/40 secs.

-Antorak Marauder:
     -Subversion antimatter cost increased from 100/90/80 to 100/100/100.
     -Subversion cooldown increased from 50/45/40 secs to 75/75/75 secs.
     -Subversion ship and structure build time penalties increased from 15%/30%/45% to 50%/100%/150%.

-Vulkoras Desolator:
     -Disintegration cooldown decreased from 120 secs to 90 secs.

-Stilakus Subverter:
     -Distortion Field antimatter cost increased from 100 to 200.
     -Distortion Field duration decreased from 30 secs to 20 secs.
 
-Iconus Guardian:
     -Repulsion is now a channeling and interruptable ability.
 
-Serevun Overseer:
     -Reactive Nanite Armor cooldown increased from 2 secs to 4 secs.
 
-Illuminator Vessel
     -Frontal bank damage reduced from 58.5 to 53.5.
     -Side bank damage reduced from 30.3 to 27.25.

-Returning Armada:
     -Now costs 2500 credits, 200 Metal, 500 Crystal to activate.
     -Fleet sizes summoned increased from 25-45 to 45-90 supply.
     -Cooldown increased to 10 minutes at all levels.
     -Phase Stabilizers now have 0 max antimatter.
  
-Scenario and Galaxy Generation:
     -Fixed problem with calculating star extents on smaller maps (because of min size, stars were getting vertically offset by too much). 
     -Fixed bug in galaxy generator so that inter-star connections could end up connected to one star.
     -Fix for some wonkiness with placing artifacts.  They would not show up in your artifact list because the control of the artifact had not been given to you because of ordering of planet acquisition and artifact placement.
     -Added missing starting artifacts for 2 start positions in Ancient Gifts map.
     -Spread out the stars in Ancient Gifts so more of them are in 'distant view' form when looking at a given one (for purely aesthetic reasons).
     -Fix for Implosion having wonky spawn probabilities.
     -Removed non-plural browse picture for Hyperion's Gates.
 
-TEC Research:
     -Maneuvering Thrusters max number of levels reduced from 2 to 1.
     -Rapid Development now additionally reduces costs of Logistics Capacity upgrades by 7.5% per level.
 
-Advent Research:
     -Augmented Defense Grid tactical slot bonus increased from 2 to 5 per level.
 
-Vasari Research:
     -Extreme Heat Metabolism and Sulfurous Respiration population bonuses increased from 7.5% to 15% per level.
     -Trauma Nanomedicine population loss prevented due to planet bombing increased from 10% to 20% per level.
     -Molecular Assembly structure build rate bonus increased from 5% to 40% per level.
     -Wreckage Auto-Salvage salvage percentage reduced from 8.33% to 5% per level.
 
-All frigates and cruisers now spawn with full antimatter.
-AntiLight attack type's damage modifier vs CapitalShip, Medium, Heavy and VeryHeavy armor increased from 25% to 50%.
-Carrier frigates rebalanced to have 2-3 squadrons and be relatively less expensive per squadron.
-All anti-strike craft frigates' base DPS reduced by 43%.
-AntiVeryLight attack type's damage modifier vs CapitalShip, Medium, Heavy and VeryHeavy armor increased from 25% to 50%.
-Composite attack type's damage modifier vs Medium armor increased from 100% to 125%.
-Composite attack type's damage modifier vs Heavy armor decreased from 125% to 100%.
-AntiHeavy attack type's damage modifier vs Heavy armor increased from 125% to 150%.
-Abilities can now require resources to be used instead of antimatter.
-Fix for capital ships not being able to build squads.
-Squad owners now attempt to build strike craft in all non-full squads, rather than just one squad per type it supports. This addresses the situation where squad owners w/ having all squads of the same type were losing 'production efficiency' vs those having both fighter and bomber squads. This should also improve construction for squad owners w/ 2+ squads (ie most high level capital ships).
-Caught more edge cases where buffs should perform their OnBuffFinish actions. (Fixes weirdness with various abilities).
-Duplicate buffs that get replaced by new instances of the same buff now do their OnBuffFinish actions when this happens. This should significantly improve Malice's damage output when multiple Progenitors are chain casting it on the same targets.
-Fixed bug with being to see weapon ranges of non-detected ships.
-Buffs are now removed from targets, where appropriate, if their player ownership changes.
-Fix GetExtractionIncomeBonus mistake with bonus amt.
-Better blocking of defeated players being able to use the market and bounty.
-Player resource buckets now start at 50% market price instead of 100% so there isn't so much red at the start of the game.
-Jump Field Generator artifact now also allows travel through wormholes.

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Graphics:
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-Major upgrade to the rendering and texture systems that allows the game to look even better on less powerful machines.
-18 completely redone and touched up meshes.
-Dozens completely redone and touched up mesh textures.
-Lots of new explosion effects and textures.
-A variety of minor 2d texture upgrades and/or replacements.
-New ship shader with colorsample.a swapped with datasample.r (Team and specular have reversed position).
-Non-planetary asteroids now have their own shader. (Note: this shader no longer uses the same texture channel format as the ship shader).
-Damage system changed so that dead entities update as fast as possible so the explosion effects occur at the correct time.
-New explosion system.
-The game doesn't crash if the number of persistent damage effects is close to the max.
-Upped the max number of persistent damage effects.

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Sound / Music:
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-Fix for rotation sounds disappearing when loading save games.
-Fix for losing sounds after migrating hosts.

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AI:
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-Improved AI ability choice and usage.
-Fix capturable resource mines from being considered damageable and causing all sorts of badness in the AI (and elsewhere).
-Fix for ships not attacking modules all the time.
-Set the correct difficulty of dropped players converted to AI.
-Improved when AI decides to build capitalships.
-AI can now build frigates in priority list if the supply usage is too low (ala patterns noticed in human build strategies).
-Fix support ship ratio to not be affected by non-combat ships (was building way too many if there were things like trade ships)
-AI now consider a repairbay more of a threat so it gets taken out at a higher priority.
-Improved AI building of tradeports and refineries.
-Further improved AI bounty logic so human players can't cheese the AI so easily.
-Auto join fleet members now inherit auto attack range.
-Autojoining a fleet now also inherits the fleet leaders settings (ex. group hyperspace state).
-Fixed bug where ships that autojoined formations would have their preorder move point overwritten by the rally point code. This meant that the last ship joined would always try to go back to factory, instead of in-formation with their fleet.
-Fix path-finding crash.

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Networking / Multiplayer:
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-Introducing the beta of Ironclad's new game networking technology "Alloy":
     -Peer-to-peer technology (very common with real-time strategy games) has been having a rough time lately due to the increasing use of Internet security software and routers.
     -Sins was no exception, with the most visible problem being the amount of technical knowledge many users needed to learn in order host multiplayer games over Ironclad Online.
     -This latest version of Sins introduces a cutting edge network technology called "Alloy" that bypasses all these problems, performs faster, more reliably, and with more stability.
     -Players should never have to worry about being able to host, configuring routers, changing port numbers, or games ending due to failed host migrations. It’s 100% hands-off.
     -Technically proficient users can always choose to disable Alloy and handle the details manually.

-Synchronization:
     -Fixed loading mods potentially causing a sync problem.
     -Robustness added to various network commands so they don't crash when out of sync.
     -Scenario files are now checked to make sure they don't differ in multiplayer games.
     -Meshes are now checksummed in order to detect sync errors faster.
     -FileArchives now keep track of their contents checksum so the game can do more accurate checks on client data to detect if the game might go out of sync while playing multiplayer.

-Ignore system added so specific players can be ignored in ICO and in-game.
-Fixed assert in GalaxyGenerator causing socket error.
-No longer attempt to whisper "in-game" to disconnected players. This way you can talk to friends over ICO who have left the game.
-Fix for losing sounds after migrating hosts.
-Players can now attach their email to their ICO account to improve future support.
-Players can now join ICO chat lobbies that have the maximum number of characters as their name.
-Previewing galaxies in ICO will no longer kick you back to the single player screen.
-No more spamming of "host has changed game settings" in the game lobby.
-Fixed false negatives being reported for ICO-game hosting.
-All clients are notified if the host changes the game settings while in the game lobby screen.
-New ICO screen for managing game hosting.
-Added a no-duplicate name algorithm to player setup due to the new chat system. There would be no way to send whispers to duplicate name players.
-ICO accounts will now be forced to logout if you attempt to login with the same account. This was supposed to be fixed in 1.05 but should now actually work.

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User Interface / HUD:
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-New Mini Underground Window
     -This new window gives you immediate access to common Underground actions without having to leave the main view. Actions include:
           -Buying and selling resources.
           -Viewing the current bounty target and the raid time remaining.
           -The ability to increment the bounty on the player with current highest bounty.
     -All these actions are now hooked up to hotkeys.
     -Opening and closing the Mini Underground Window can be done via Ctrl-Shift-X or using the User Interface options screen.

-Hotkeys:
      -New default hot key for Select Colony Ships to not conflict with Toggle Main View Icons. (Alt-G)
      -Hotkey to toggle expand/shrink the best selected Empire Tree node. (L)
      -Hotkeys added for opening up specific tabs in the global windows:
           Examples:  
                 - Research Window: Combat, Non-combat, Artifact, Fleet
                 - NPC Window: Market, Pirates
       -Escape menu screen now more accurately reports when the player is entering text so that you can switch from the network status screen to other screens with hotkeys.
       -Entities autojoining fleets (see AI changes) will now search for and join the hot key group that contains the entire fleet. This way you don't have to rebuild hot key groups as more ships get added to the fleet automatically.
       -Can now toggle between the pirate and market screens without having to close them first with hotkeys.
 
-Empire Tree:
       -Hotkey to toggle expand/shrink the best selected Empire Tree node.
       -Using hotkeys to toggle the expansion of an Empire Tree node now also makes it visible. Note that this isn't done when clicking the arrow to the left to prevent shifting of the Empire Tree while your cursor is interacting with it. 
       -Empire Tree now updates if paused.
       -Fix Empire Tree crash.
       -Fixed a bug in the "show selected node" algorithm.
       -Tolerance for readjusting the Empire Tree changed so that it happens when any of the entire node is outside of the window instead of only the entity selected. This is so that selecting an entity will bring the planet in view even if the planet is outside the window.
        -Changed the behavior when making an entity visible so the entire node shows up on the top of the Empire Tree instead of the bottom.
        -New algorithm for making the selected entity displayed. Now takes into account the context of the entity, for example if a ship is selected the entire planet and all of its contents are attempted to be made visible, instead of just the ship.

-Fix missing planet type descriptions from scenariodef file.
-Fix for crash when selecting player portraits.
-Pasting text into text boxes no longer only cuts of the front if the text won't fit (cuts off the end).
-Both combat and non-combat lab counts are displayed in the open research button infocard.
-Abilities that spawn units now show the duration of their spawned units in the ability infocard.
-Changed button text to show credit cost on press instead of /unit of resource.
-Added colors to text that the big market screen uses.
-Added left handed mouse support. Swapped mouse buttons will be auto-detected from the win32 api and saved as a personal setting.

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Modding:
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-Maximum number of buildable capital ship types per race increased from 5 to 9.
-Abilities can now require resources to be used instead of antimatter.
-Fixed loading mods potentially causing a sync problem.
-Caught more edge cases where buffs should perform their OnBuffFinish actions. (Fixes weirdness with various abilities).
-Fixed game from crashing when a mesh type that the engine expects to have shields is modded to not have shields.
-New convertdata can convert binary to text as well.
-As mentionned in graphics: New ship shader with colorsample.a swapped with datasample.r (Team and spec have reversed position).
-As mentionned in graphics: Non-planetary asteroids now have their own shader. (Note: this shader no longer uses the same texture channel format as the ship shader).
-Various improvements to GalaxyForge.

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Misc:
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-Fix crash bug with array out of bound values with Resource Focus.
-Fixed a crash in rendering certain string types.
-Screenshot Changes
       -Changed code for taking autoscreenshots to get rid of any render time interpolation.
       -Take screenshot on singlestep
       -Screenshot mode is disabled on shutdown so all relating settings aren't saved as off.
-Fixed bug where temp ships where messing up statistics (causing them to go negative).
-Fixed a null pointer crash.

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End
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1,720,114 views 574 replies
Reply #126 from Sins Forums Top
mehoo462
. . .
There's something big you're missing. When you buy Starcraft it mentions BattleNet as part of the game and something you need for updates, downloads, matchmaking, and so on. When you buy WoW it mentions that you must play on their servers and take what they spoon-feed you in order to continue to play. When you buy Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2, or the Orange Box you're told right there in writing that you must install and use Steam to play the games. When you go to buy Battlefield 2 Euro Force, the only way to get it used to be through EA Downloader, which was made clear by EA from the beginning.

I cannot find a single place on my Sins of a Solar Empire box where it says I have to download and install Impulse to get updates or to use the game. I can understand Impulse for future games, but with this current game there's not a word on there that says I have to be using Impulse or that certain features of the game, such as patches, will not be available to me unless I download Impulse. At the time of purchase, I had no concern about invasive software, technically termed 'shovelware' here. Had I known that, I might not have ever purchased the game. Ironically, the purchase decision was on impulse, and impulse purchase decisions of mine are always stopped by the presence of tag-along shovelware, DRM, or poor user reviews. It's also extremely foolish to release a product for operating systems such as Win 2000 and then deny updates for said product on that OS because of the new Impulse program -- your EULA might not be worded properly to cover such as scenario like this which could create a huge mess.

Nobody, not even Venym, is asking for Impulse to be stripped of its update ability or to take a back seat to the way current updates are done. All we're asking for is a separate download. You can keep your Impulse auto-updater, just release a stand-alone patch separate from it. That's what some people want, especially those with Win 2000, dial-up, or tight computer resource restrictions/practices. Impulse wasn't mandatory before, and now it's becoming mandatory, which is something I know I didn't know about when I purchased SOASE. If the new Impulse service is as great as claimed, then there's nothing to worry about.

With the current arrangement, Impulse seems like a piece of AOL software that used to install itself without your permission when you bought or downloaded some software or updated AIM. Remember all those annoying 'sign up for AOL, 6 months free' links, icons, and program groups those old invasive 'shovelware' tag-along routines used to put on peoples' computers? Does Stardock/Ironclad really want to do the same thing with Impulse that AOL used to do? Last time I checked, it didn't work for AOL.

Again, this applies to pre-Impulse games.

And since it will probably come up, if I ever bought a copy of HL1 without Steam, I would not install Steam just for it even to this day.
Reply #127 from Sins Forums Top
Wow, Venym, if it bothers you that much, then just don't update your game if you think you are getting "scammed". I'm not losing any money or getting any spyware by downloading impulse. Try it and maybe you will be surprised.

And

For gods sake stop boring the rest of us with the tin foil hat ranting.


Make a separate thread for this complaining, that way I can ignore it instead of having to sift through it while reading about this awesome patch.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #128 from Sins Forums Top
I cannot find a single place on my Sins of a Solar Empire box where it says I have to download and install Impulse to get updates or to use the game.


Sins manual, page 75:
Updated versions of the SOFTWARE made available after the release will require Internet access to activate the update. Alternatively, users may send an email with a special code to be sent back the file needed to activate the Registered Version on a machine without direct Internet access.  Please see https://www.stardock.com/StardockActivationInfo.asp for more information.  Updates can be obtained from the Stardock Impulse program bundled with the SOFTWARE.

Note there is zero mention of standalone updates there. The only reason they were offered was because Impulse was not ready in time, and we didn't want to have people use SDC (which has been the exclusive method of updating for GalCiv2 for nearly two years) then shortly update to Impulse.


I had no concern about invasive software, technically termed 'shovelware' here.
With the current arrangement, Impulse seems like a piece of AOL software that used to install itself without your permission when you bought or downloaded some software or updated AIM.


Impulse is neither, and has in fact been certified by the Anti-Spyware Coalition. It does not install itself unbidden as you seem to imply.


It's also extremely foolish to release a product for operating systems such as Win 2000 and then deny updates for said product on that OS because of the new Impulse program


Sins does not support Win2k (the requirements list Vista or XP only)--in fact, it will outright refuse to install. The only way to get it on a Win2k machine is by copying files manually and replacing DLLs with old ones, as I recall.


All we're asking for is a separate download. You can keep your Impulse auto-updater, just release a stand-alone patch separate from it. That's what some people want, especially those with... dial-up


Impulse is in fact better for people with limited download speed or quotas, as it allows incremental updates, rather than having to download a cumulative patch from 1.0 every time there's a new version.


Reply #129 from Sins Forums Top
Cant wait for it. I hope those new effect will be cool! And I hope this Impulse will work effectively. I had lots of problem downloading the patchs for GalCiv2 with SDC.
Reply #130 from Sins Forums Top
Aight then I will go check the impulse forums, hopefully they will fix my problem. Sorry I couldn't give you more info on the error report after using impulse but after it said that it should said a bunch of microsoft crap.
Reply #131 from Sins Forums Top
kryo
Sins manual, page 75:Updated versions of the SOFTWARE made available after the release will require Internet access to activate the update. Alternatively, users may send an email with a special code to be sent back the file needed to activate the Registered Version on a machine without direct Internet access.  Please see https://www.stardock.com/StardockActivationInfo.asp for more information.  Updates can be obtained from the Stardock Impulse program bundled with the SOFTWARE.

Note there is zero mention of standalone updates there. The only reason they were offered was because Impulse was not ready in time, and we didn't want to have people use SDC (which has been the exclusive method of updating for GalCiv2 for nearly two years) then shortly update to Impulse.
The specific clause you cited was breached by failing to bundle Impulse with the SOFTWARE. For a clause like that to hold water, it must be reasonably true. Yes, now that Impulse is here you can download the updates through it, but the specific part about bundling it with the SOFTWARE is invalid and brings down the whole clause because 1) the bundling never took place and 2) 5 patches were released over 5 months all without Impulse thus leaving an unreasonable amount of time and progress between the SOFTWARE's release, the date of that EULA being accepted, and that of the implicit replacement method of delivering patches. At worst, the clause is invalid. At best, the clause is disputable.

Impulse is neither, and has in fact been certified by the Anti-Spyware Coalition. It does not install itself unbidden as you seem to imply.
I said it was invasive and shovelware. I did not say it was spyware or malware. From my point of view, programs that usurp functions of other programs, such as community web browsing and also application management already built into the OS, are deemed by me to be invasive. Programs in which are tacked on to another product and required to continue the use of that product even if for a very specific function, such as updating, are shovelware. So why get upset about Impulse and not EA Downloader? Because I could still update and play Battlefield without having anything to do with EA Downloader. I don't want it nor need it. I was not forced into it either. Don't tell me I'm not forced into Impulse when it is explicitly required for updates. For reference, I regard Steam as invasive and shovelware too. I consider Windows Live to be invasive, shovelware, and malware (for causing a sizeable performance hit).

Sins does not support Win2k (the requirements list Vista or XP only)--in fact, it will outright refuse to install. The only way to get it on a Win2k machine is by copying files manually and replacing DLLs with old ones, as I recall.
That one is my mistake since it's clearly right on the box, on the back, in the bottom right.

Impulse is in fact better for people with limited download speed or quotas, as it allows incremental updates, rather than having to download a cumulative patch from 1.0 every time there's a new version.
Ok, so it's good for people with slow internet speed.

An analogy to what's going on here, last year I was out to spend $20-something thousand on a new vehicle. The one I was looking at had this thing called Sync. I didn't want Sync. The dealer insisted it wasn't a deal breaker and that I just could ignore it or turn it off. However, you can't really get rid of it because it's integrated. Yeah, you can ignore it or turn it off, but certain functions require its use much like how you want to have Impulse handle the update function of SOASE. You should have seen the look on the Ford dealer's face when I walked away...the sweat drops on his head were akin to something out of anime. I really wanted that truck too. Now imagine the vehicle I bought elsewhere, which does not have Sync, getting a service notice that there's a mandatory recall update to the onboard vehicle computer and they're going to tack on Sync in addition to that update, free of charge. Some people would be thrilled, happy, indifferent, angry, infuriated, and so on. I would be angry. Could you imagine someone in the car industry doing such a thing given the volatility in that industry? Take a look at the economy...the entertainment industry is in for a rough ride particularly later this year especially if predictions come true that the Dow goes as low as sub-8500, gas hits 6 or 7 or 8 dollars a gallon, a declining dollar, and various companies severely scale back operations. Ok, so I'm just one person so it's easy to ignore me. However, it's been demonstrated that many people are upset about being required to have Impulse to get updates. You saw some earlier in this thread and in various other threads. A sizable yet small fraction of your customer base in all probability agrees.

Nobody here is advocating getting rid of Impulse. Nobody here is complaining about Impulse being required for future games. People, like myself, are not happy that Impulse is being retroactively required for games that have come out before its release. All the complaints could easily be silenced by providing stand-alone patches for pre-Impulse games. It's really that simple.

My point is made so that's it. If this doesn't convince anyone to release a stand-alone patch, then there's no magical phrase or new reasoning I can come up with to convince anyone to come to my side. Also, I do hope that Returning Armada is a little less-nerfed when it comes time for v1.1's release.

Just because I'm adverse to Impulse today does not mean I won't join up in the future more of the listed features become available, particularly in the SDK arena.
Reply #132 from Sins Forums Top
So - there is a new version coming out!!! :)
I wonder what people think about IT vs the delivery mechanism
(Sorry - I'm not a lawyer, so am not interested in the CULA arguments. I AM however a game player and interested in playing Sins - especially now TEC will be slightly more competitive :))
Reply #133 from Sins Forums Top
Yes, now that Impulse is here you can download the updates through it, but the specific part about bundling it with the SOFTWARE is invalid and brings down the whole clause because 1) the bundling never took place and 2) 5 patches were released over 5 months all without Impulse thus leaving an unreasonable amount of time and progress between the SOFTWARE's release


If you look in your game folder, you'll in fact find a program stub named Impulse which is called in lieu of the "full" program if it is not present and the Updates button in the game is clicked. This Impulse stub then passes the user on to the standalone update page, thus providing access as in the license.
Reply #134 from Sins Forums Top
Sins manual, page 75:
Updated versions of the SOFTWARE made available after the release will require Internet access to activate the update. Alternatively, users may send an email with a special code to be sent back the file needed to activate the Registered Version on a machine without direct Internet access. Please see https://www.stardock.com/StardockActivationInfo.asp for more information. Updates can be obtained from the Stardock Impulse program bundled with the SOFTWARE.


As indicated, the manual specifically states that only Internet access is REQUIRED for updates to SoaSe. Impulse CAN be used, but is NOT REQUIRED.

In your defense, because it is so ambiguously written, you could argue that you meant "Updates can only be obtained from the Stardock Impulse program bundled with the SOFTWARE," but considering that Impulse WASN'T bundled at all (nor marketed nor brought to the customers' attention until very recently--it wasn't even finished back then), you can consider that whole line null-and-void and forget it altogether.

If you look in your game folder, you'll in fact find a program stub named Impulse which is called in lieu of the "full" program if it is not present and the Updates button in the game is clicked. This Impulse stub then passes the user on to the standalone update page, thus providing access as in the license.


A "link" that provides access to software that didn't exist until recently doesn't count as "bundled" software.

A minor point should be brought up. Digging up legal fine print from parts of the manual that is seldom read in order to justify your customer "lock-in" schemes is pretty shady and dishonest. Even so, that legal fine print still fails to justify that scheme (or any others).

The only reason they were offered was because Impulse was not ready in time, and we didn't want to have people use SDC (which has been the exclusive method of updating for GalCiv2 for nearly two years) then shortly update to Impulse.


That same claim regarding Galactic Civilizations 2 has been made before by "FrogBoy." It is misleading--you released patches non-exclusively all the way up to 1.4x. The gaming sites gamezone.com and filefront.com both have all of the patches up to 1.4x available for download. If that isn't enough, I'll also include a link to a post made by "Brad Wardell" where he states:

1.4 will be available on Stardock Central on October 25, 2006 (as 1.4X). B]The stand alone version will be available on the 26th which is when the official announcement will occur.[/B]


Thus, the claim of always updating Galactic Civilizations 2 through Stardock Central is imaginary and misleading, and certainly no way to justify this latest scheme. As I mentioned before in an earlier post, it's actually a pretty cunning scheme--appeal to lots of customers with maximum compatibility and little/no inconvenience (such as simple standalone distribution of patches), then leash all of your customers to your exclusive distribution services or cheat them out of the patches/support they already paid for.

Ignoring or rewriting your history of stand-alone updates with Galactic Civilizations 2 is dishonest and not a good way to justify current dishonesty. Most importantly (and pointed out above), your legal fine print fails to justify any transition to Impulse-exclusive updates.

Wikipedia Article on Bundled Software

Post by Brad Wardell about Patch 1.4

GalCiv Patches at GameZone

GalCiv Patches at FileFront
Reply #135 from Sins Forums Top
That same claim regarding Galactic Civilizations 2 has been made before by "FrogBoy." It is misleading--you released patches non-exclusively all the way up to 1.4x....Thus, the claim of always updating Galactic Civilizations 2 through Stardock Central is imaginary


If I'd meant to say always, I'd have said always. SDC is and has been the only means to get updates above 1.4x, beginning with the Dark Avatar beta less than a month after 1.4x's release. The continued availability of an old version on third party sites hardly negates that fact.

As indicated, the manual specifically states that only Internet access is REQUIRED for updates to SoaSe. Impulse CAN be used, but is NOT REQUIRED.


It says that internet is required to activate the updates. Only the final sentence refers to the act of obtaining them, and is the sole reference to their availability.




In the end, it all boils down to the fact that offering updates exclusively via our distribution platform isn't new, and it is covered in the EULA. If you don't like it, you're free to your opinion, and your objections have been noted. However there's no need to make baseless accusations and arguments about it.
Reply #136 from Sins Forums Top
[quote\]Why can't we trade ships to our allies or neutral party's for money or metals or crystal? etc etc. Same thing goes for planets.The other thing is Enemies are constantly telling us what they want or they will destroy us how come we can't do the same thing to them.I want to tell them things like; I want planet X and 50000 crystal or I'm going to turn your race into vapor. Or threaten um with the destruction of an allie or give them task like they try and give me.[/quote]
I agree compleatly, if they can tell me to do this and do that why cant I do the same thing? And another thing, I would like to know diplomacy situations for other factions. Like who is at peace with whome and and who is trading with one another. If you were to look at Civizlation 4 a diplomacy web like that would be most helpful.
As to the impulse only update system I agree with whoever said that to update you shuld just have to click the update now buton follow the normal course of action and voila you have updated your game. I dont want to have to download some misilanious program just to update one game. This update looks awesome though and even though I am still realativly new at it I am still looking forward tothe update.
On a side note I am really looking forward to a single player campaign in sins2!


Reply #137 from Sins Forums Top
I am very disappointed in Stardocks decision into doing this.

I am a legit customer, I like my standalone patches, especially when deploying to multiple computers.

Stardock, shame on you!

I will not be upgrading to 1.1 when it is released
Reply #138 from Sins Forums Top
Why can't we trade ships to our allies or neutral party's for money or metals or crystal? etc etc. Same thing goes for planets.The other thing is Enemies are constantly telling us what they want or they will destroy us how come we can't do the same thing to them.I want to tell them things like; I want planet X and 50000 crystal or I'm going to turn your race into vapor. Or threaten um with the destruction of an allie or give them task like they try and give me.

I agree compleatly, if they can tell me to do this and do that why cant I do the same thing? And another thing, I would like to know diplomacy situations for other factions. Like who is at peace with whome and and who is trading with one another. If you were to look at Civizlation 4 a diplomacy web like that would be most helpful.
As to the impulse only update system I agree with whoever said that to update you shuld just have to click the update now buton follow the normal course of action and voila you have updated your game. I dont want to have to download some misilanious program just to update one game. This update looks awesome though and even though I am still realativly new at it I am still looking forward tothe update.
On a side note I am really looking forward to a single player campaign in sins2!


(sorry about the double poast couldnt edit first one ;) )
Reply #139 from Stardock Forums Top
If I'd meant to say always, I'd have said always. SDC is and has been the only means to get updates above 1.4x, beginning with the Dark Avatar beta less than a month after 1.4x's release. The continued availability of an old version on third party sites hardly negates that fact.

Despite the fact that your President and CEO, "Frogboy," DID say always, I acknowledge that his words are not necessarily your words. So let's look at your words instead.

... we didn't want to have people use SDC (which has been the exclusive method of updating for GalCiv2 for nearly two years) then shortly update to Impulse.

If you didn't mean always, then why not clarify that SDC was only exclusive after 1.4x? Maybe you wanted to send the false impression that SDC has always exclusively updated GalCiv, possibly to justify the transition to Impulse? That is quite misleading.


It says that internet is required to activate the updates. Only the final sentence refers to the act of obtaining them, and is the sole reference to their availability.

That is quite a surprise, actually. I thought your stand-alone patches DIDN'T use the internet (after they are downloaded). So stand-alone patches don't work on PC's not connected to the Internet? Should we be concerned about EVERYTHING you release? On the other hand, if stand-alone patches don't use the internet to update, maybe the meaning you are trying to give that line (and clause) doesn't add up. Also, seeing as how the final sentence is moot anyway, I don't see how you have much of a choice but to offer stand-alone patches as an alternative to Impulse.


... and it is covered in the EULA.

I can't dispute that, because you haven't provided (nor can I find) a copy of the EULA. And I don't want to reinstall my game to access it (if it is even there).


... there's no need to make baseless accusations ...

It is hard to call these accusations baseless when I have documented most of my points with external evidence/articles.

However there's no need to make (omitted) accusations and arguments about it.

Of course there is! Many of your customers have paid good money for this game, its support/patches, and it's online play. To suddenly add new conditions for your customers to receive what we have ALREADY PURCHASED is probably illegal. Unless of course, Stardock/Ironclad already wrote a provision in the EULA allowing such theft. If that is the case, I don't think I will continue to purchase your products.
Reply #140 from Sins Forums Top
I haven't visit the Sins forums for a while now because there's too much passive aggression going on.

Anyway this is a good game and the new patch is great news.

Thanks Ironclad and I'm looking forward to more. :CONGRAT:
Reply #141 from Sins Forums Top
This thread has really degenerated.
At least a few posts are praising them for their hard work.

I say just be glad they're still updating at all. Many companies completely abandon games.
Reply #142 from Sins Forums Top
Maybe you wanted to send the false impression that SDC has always exclusively updated GalCiv, possibly to justify the transition to Impulse?


Or maybe I meant exactly what I said, no more, no less. You can try to read in ill intent all you like, but there's none there. The history and availability of GalCiv2 updates are public knowledge.

That is quite a surprise, actually. I thought your stand-alone patches DIDN'T use the internet (after they are downloaded). Should we be concerned about EVERYTHING you release? If stand-alone patches don't use the internet to update, maybe the meaning you are trying to give that line (and clause) doesn't add up. Also, seeing as how the final sentence is moot anyway, I don't see how you have much of a choice but to offer stand-alone patches as an alternative to Impulse.


Updates require activation upon install or at first run of a previously unactivated install. If that has been excluded, it's at our discretion; the requirement is clearly outlined in the EULA and if we've opted to not exercise it, it does not negate the EULA in any way.

As to your argument that the last sentence is moot, that's entirely your own opinion. As I've pointed out, there is a program named Impulse which handles the update access from the game. The EULA does not define just what Impulse is or is not aside from being a program (yep) and providing access to the updates (yep), so you can't argue that the stub does not fulfill it.

I can't dispute that, because you haven't provided (nor can I find) a copy of the EULA.


It's in the manual.



It is hard to call these accusations baseless when I have documented most of my points with external evidence/articles.


You and/or ZJBDragon (forgive me if I lump you together, but you're arguing many of the same points) have hinted (at least) at supposed duplicitous or malicious motives on our part. You've cherry-picked from and intentionally misinterpreted the EULA which you've apparently not read (It's about as plain-language as such things get, by the way--basically just a list of what you can and can't do, and a few short paragraphs on updates and legal boilerplate), and asserted that it's rendered invalid simply because you don't think the included Impulse.exe "counts".

To you in particular though, your arguments about lock-in just don't make any sense. We don't profit any more from distributing updates via Impulse than by standalone updates, aside from making the actual deployment process a bit cheaper. It certainly doesn't have any significant relevance to the frequency or duration of updates, or the value thereof. We're the only provider (read: creator) of updates no matter what, so the cries of anti-competitiveness just don't stand up to scrutiny. Whether you can download the patches only from us or from mirrors has little bearing on anything but who's shouldering resulting bandwidth costs. You aren't paying any more or less than "free" for them either way, and nobody's forcing you to use the functions of Impulse that you don't personally see need for.




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Reply #143 from Sins Forums Top
Kryo, I wouldn't argue with them, they are probably some stupid "know it all" morons trolling the forums... In fact, he's probably even pirated the game, or else I see no reason in going on this tirade he has for the last few days.

remove his posts from here and start a diff one, he's totally gone off topic here and is messing up any chance of people who actually want to view this post properly.

Either way. Any person who thinks that Stardock being the only distributer for their own product is misleading or unfair to their customer seriously needs their head checked, that's like walking into a Mazda dealership and demanding they sell you an Audi, then complaining at the fact that you aren't giving the customer a choice.
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Reply #144 from Sins Forums Top
Impulse.exe is akin to a simple redirect. My interpretation of what the EULA says about the updates is based on reasonable expectations relative to my point of view (relative points of view, definitions of words, and such is a huge point of friction here it seems). You think I've misinterpreted the EULA and likewise I think you've misinterpreted it. 5 months, 5 patches, and all of them stand-alone. Now suddenly this brand new next-generation content system called Impulse shows up after 5 months. It's so expansive that little Impulse.exe and the couple of notes about Impulse differ from what's being released on the order of night and day. When I purchased SOASE back in February, I always thought Impulse was some sort of website. I'm not saying Impulse is bad and I'm not saying it's good either. I'm trying to demonstrate that an expectation was fostered here that downloads were as simple as clicking update, downloading the .exe, and letting it patch the game. Had Impulse come out 4 months ago things would have been different because then I obviously would have known Impulse was not just a website and wouldn't have the expectation that all patches would be stand-alone.

Like I said earlier though, there's really no point in dragging this out further. We all have our positions and nobody really wants to do a whole legal dissection of an EULA. Nobody is going to come up with a magic phrase or way of putting things in which convinces everyone to hold hands and be happy. Whose opinion wins out? Obviously the people in the driver's seat at Stardock because they're the ones with their hands on the steering wheel. Like I've said in the past, the biggest thing with a service like Impulse is getting people to want it, which I personally don't.

Btw, to clarify on my older comments, the term 'shovelware' can sometimes mean poor quality software. I would like to make it known that when I said shovelware earlier I'm referring to products that you have to have but might not want. Quality of that product is irrelevant in how I personally use that word. It seems several tech terms such as this one aren't exactly used the same all over the place both geographically and online, and I in no way meant to judge the quality of your software with that term. The commentary is directed at the delivery methodology.
Reply #145 from Sins Forums Top
christ, can we stop bitching and focus on the important issues of how the patch looks at this point?
for the person who asked how much longer RA takes, well 300 seconds is 5 minutes so basically RA comes along half as much. why not a happy medium of 7.5 minutes instead of 10? Thats all i really have to say about this amazing patch/overhaul, i mean, RA is pretty much all the vasari have going for them this is a kick in the balls that will only keep them viable on huge maps where they can compensate for the cooldown increase with a lot of phase stabilizers.
also, what does it mean that phase stabilizers have "0" max antimatter?
finally, can someone finally shed some light on how exactly the carrier situation is going to work out?
thanks.
take the libertarian masturbation somewhere else please (I'm a libertarian at heart but god not the place)
thanks for the patch!
Reply #146 from Sins Forums Top

Impulse.exe is akin to a simple redirect. My interpretation of what the EULA says about the updates is based on reasonable expectations relative to my point of view

Well,  I have opened the file EULA.txt (dated from the beginning of february 2008) , and it has the following in it (which is a bit different from the manual):

ACTIVATION FOR UPDATES
Updated versions of the SOFTWARE made available after the release will require Internet access to activate the update. Alternatively, users may send an email with a special code to be sent back the file needed to activate the Registered Version on a machine without direct Internet access.

Please see
https://www.stardock.com/StardockActivationInfo.asp for more information.

Updates can be obtained via Stardock Central (http://www.sdcentral.net).

It is nowhere stated that updates will be available as stand-alone.

 

Reply #147 from Sins Forums Top

Option A: Increase Market Share) There are multiple ways to increase market share--make an excellent product, advertise to new customers, and/or bankrupt competitors. Seeing as how advertising to new customers will happen regardless (there are many gaming websites/critics that will do this), and Stardock bankrupting comptetitors is extremely unlikely, Stardock is strongly encouraged to make excellent products in order to make money. Or at least that is the case until you consider Option B.

Option B: "Lock-in" Existing Market Share) To "lock-in" existing market share means to make a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services (which in turn creates difficulty for that customer to switch to another vendor). By design, that makes it harder for other competitors to compete (aka a barrier to market entry). This option is problematic for customers because companies don't need to spend as much effort in Option A (in this case, improving product quality) to make a profit, so there is less reason for them to do so.

Well, could you explained me how option B is applicable for Stardock since V1.1 will be a FREE update. Unless I have missed something, but the lock-in strategy is to made easily more money with locked customer. How is it applicable with something that is free? Sure, I am just a french that doesn't really understand the subtilities of a complete free market, but I fail to see who is competiting with Stardock/Ironclad for patching SoaSE. Increasing market Share or lock-in customer can't really apply to a single game. It may apply to the market of strategy games. After you have installed Impulse, your are still free to get any non stardock games throught any channel available for them. 

Reply #148 from Sins Forums Top

The fact that you seem to find it acceptable that you dictate what programs I install on my PC in order to use your product for reasons not related to technical functionality makes you equally as evil as DRM.

Well, Impulse isn't required to PLAY (aka use) SoaSE (aka the product). It is just required for patching the game. And you aren't required to patch the game. And I suppose that allowing your PC to download only the required files to patch your game instead of a whole patch from the 1.0 retail version doesn't fit your definition of "technical functionnality".  

Reply #149 from Stardock Forums Top
It's in the manual.

Thank you--I didn't realize that was the EULA, and I'm glad we've already quoted from and analyzed it. And to your credit, it is very simple and straightforward (though your "explanations" and manipulations of it certainly aren't).

You've cherry-picked from and intentionally misinterpreted the EULA which you've apparently not read ...

It's hard for me to quote something that I haven't read. Which is ironic, considering that I DID quote the EULA several times. Also, if by "cherry-picking" you mean I quoted the entire section about updates while highlighting key words, then I guess you're right.

The EULA does not define just what Impulse is or is not aside from being a program (yep) and providing access to the updates (yep), so you can't argue that the stub does not fulfill it.

Sins manual, page 75:
Updated versions of the SOFTWARE made available after the release will require Internet access to activate the update. Alternatively, users may send an email with a special code to be sent back the file needed to activate the Registered Version on a machine without direct Internet access. Please see https://www.stardock.com/StardockActivationInfo.asp for more information. Updates can be obtained from the Stardock Impulse program bundled with the SOFTWARE.

Actually, no it can't. That program, by itself, actually CANNOT update the game nor can it OBTAIN updates. The program it points to can. But not by itself. Hence technically (and thus legally), that last line is moot.

Let's give an example. Say that you bought a standard video card from a local store (nothing out of the ordinary). If you open the box and find an "IOU" on the inside, which only works if you mail it off somewhere and wait for a few months, you'd understandably want a refund. Now I'm not asking for a refund. I'm saying that the conditions of that line, just like the conditions of buying a video card in that box (you got an IOU instead), were violated, and thus null-and-void. As before, you legally must support stand-alone patches.

You can accuse me of making baseless accusations, not reading the EULA, "cherry-picking," and other unsubstantiated claims, but if you read my posts thoroughly and their relevant documentation you should find the points made to be much more reputable than you give them credit. The same goes with the analysis of customer "lock-in," competition (NOT referring to your ability to release your own patches), etc.--you clearly missed the logic of those posts, which you are certainly free to read as often as you wish.

We could continue to point out the rest of the inconsistencies of your train-of-thought, and chances are we already have at some point. However, I humbly concede entirely to ZJBDragon's wishes to end this discussion. He is right, for when logic and honesty are suspended, constructive debate ceases to occur and is quickly supplanted by frivolous bickering. As he also said,

Whose opinion wins out? Obviously the people in the driver's seat at Stardock because they're the ones with their hands on the steering wheel.


I just hope that opinion holds the customers' interests and rights as the highest priority.

p.s. I am not attempting to "have the last word"--everything here and everywhere else has the right to be questioned and/or criticized. I just don't think an absence of reason or honesty will accomplish anything positive, and I think this thread is testament to that.
Reply #150 from Sins Forums Top
How does them requiring you to download the patch via Impulse lead to not producing the same quality / quantity of patches?As mentioned before, a company has two ways to increase revenue--increase market share and/or "lock-in" its existing market share.Option A: Increase Market Share) There are multiple ways to increase market share--make an excellent product, advertise to new customers, and/or bankrupt competitors. Seeing as how advertising to new customers will happen regardless (there are many gaming websites/critics that will do this), and Stardock bankrupting comptetitors is extremely unlikely, Stardock is strongly encouraged to make excellent products in order to make money. Or at least that is the case until you consider Option B.Option B: "Lock-in" Existing Market Share) To "lock-in" existing market share means to make a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services (which in turn creates difficulty for that customer to switch to another vendor). By design, that makes it harder for other competitors to compete (aka a barrier to market entry). This option is problematic for customers because companies don't need to spend as much effort in Option A (in this case, improving product quality) to make a profit, so there is less reason for them to do so.In a nutshell, many companies balance between these two options. However, companies generally tend towards Option B, because it requires less work/effort on their part to make the same profit. However, because company effort is diverted away from product improvement, as sane customers we cannot support customer "lock-in" schemes. Instead, we should ensure that Stardock continues to make good patches/products/etc by only allowing them profit through good work.But how does that apply to Stardock's Impulse specifically? Read below.
We're the exclusive provider of patches by the very nature of the product--the only way it wouldn't be so-called "lock in" is if we handed out the source code so other companies could make patches for the game.Of course. As a developer, you have the exclusive right to patch your own game--anything to the contrary is ridiculous.What I'm trying to point out is that Impulse, in and of itself, is a customer "lock-in" tool.Evidence for this includes, but is not limited to:1) a built-in store, which CANNOT BE REMOVED,2) Impulse-exclusive "deals" (such as exclusive distribution of patches, which forces customers to either get "hooked" to Impulse or lose support for their games),3) built-in "Impulse community" which cannot be removed (while not intrinsically bad, this is designed to make leaving Impulse/switching vendors harder, hence "lock-in")4) functionality with many programs/applications (a good measure, but considering that those tabs can be added/removed indicates that Stardock doesn't really care about increased functionality on the customer's part, but that customers are somehow "hooked" on Impulse)I didn't spend $50 on Sins of a Solar Empire so that I could be forced into downloading a program that automatically loads your store on my computer every time I want to update it. I spent $50 for a good game, good patches/support, and good online play. No more, no less. I certainly didn't pay for these customer "lock-in" schemes and other attempts to transform all of your customers into Stardock zombies. And considering that many of your customers--most of which don't even post on this forum--use stand-alone patches in one form or another (either from this site or from others), chances are I'm speaking on behalf of a huge majority of your customers.Though maybe this discussion is too long-winded. Thus, I'll reference your famous "Piracy & PC Gaming" post again.
The reason why we don't put CD copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.Considering that we are your customers, and you said that you will "make the games (we) want and deliver them how (we) want it," it makes sense that you'd patch the games how we want them too. Thus, please continue releasing stand-alone patches to your games from now on. You can release on Impulse too, but not exclusively. Not if you want to be honest to your money-spending customers and give them what they paid for, no schemes attached.Wikipedia Article on Customer "Lock-In"Filefront SoaSe Patch Download ListGoogle Search of Other Sites with SoaSe Patch downloadsPiracy & PC Gaming Article



I would like to know where it says that Ironclad or Stardock has to do ANYTHING to meet your personal demands past delivering a working product?
Patching IS NOT a major selling tool, and if you look at the numbers, exponentially more people have bought this game than will ever touch a patch. Doubtless there are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who will play this game and never download a patch.
Patching may be your selling tool, but what you don't understand, is that you, and everyone here on the forum, is a vast, VAST minority in the demographic of people who have purchased this game.