Leauki Leauki

The Word on Creationism

The Word on Creationism

The Word is "Lie"

What opponents of evolution (and other theories) don't understand is that science is not about finding the truth (that is best left to philosophy professors) but about finding out something useful about this world.

The predictions of theories can be used in engineering and other fields. Applications of the theory of evolution have been used successfully in such diverse fields as medicine and (yes) computer science. Evolution is solid, a tool that we can use to advance.


For a good article about the difference between a scientific theory and Creationism and the utter stupidity (and, I want to add, sacrilege) of believing in "Intelligent Design", see Steven Den Beste's essay about the human eye.

http://denbeste.nu/essays/humaneye.shtml

The vertebrate retina is a terrible design. The optic nerve comes into the eyeball at a certain point, and the nerve fibers spread out across the surface of the retina. Each individual nerve fiber reaches its assigned point, burrows down into the retina through several layers of epithelial cells, and ends with the light receptor itself pointing away from the lens of the eye, which is the direction from which the light must come. As a result, incoming light strikes the surface of the retina and must penetrate through multiple layers of inactive cells and then through the body of the nerve itself before it reaches the active point where it might be detected. This both diffuses and attenuates the light, decreasing the efficiency of the retina in accomplishing its function.

For a rationalist and atheist like Steven Den Beste, extrapolating from the existence of the human eye to a "designer" is illogical, because there is no evidence for design but plenty evidence for evolution.

For me, personally, saying that the human eye has been "designed" is blasphemy. I do not think it is all right to claim that G-d would intentionally create a faulty design or was incapable of doing better. (Plus I agree with Steven's thinking as well. There is evidence for evolution in the human eye, but no evidence for design.)


But the problem here is not the fact that some people are not capable of understanding complicated science and are thus forced to make up fairy tales that make them believe that they are as clever as scientists (and even cleverer since scientists don't "know" the truth), but the fact that those some people sometimes have the power to take away knowledge from the rest of us.

There are MANY countries in the world where Creationism is taught instead of evolution. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the majority of the world teaches Creationism to some extent, replacing biology or "adding to" biology in schools.

But what does that do for those societies?

Are they leaders in science based on learning something that is a "theory" just like evolution and a "better "explanation?

It's not enough to change the rules to allow Creationism (or "Intelligent Design") to become science, because what is science is not a decision made by man. It's ultimately a desicion made by nature (or G-d, if you will). Because science is something we can use to create.

When we look at the world and compare societies, we see that countries that teach evolution create technologies, whereas countries that teach Creationism, do not have the workforce to be leading in any field of technology.

Teaching Creationism causes stupidity. That's the problem.

And it doesn't help if "Christian" fundamentalists in the west blame Islam for it and pretend that teaching "Christian" Creationism will give better results, because the Creationism of Islam IS the Creationism of Christianity. It's word for word, letter for letter the same legend.

And it's phony. It's phony and stupid and a big lie.

    * Why does the birth canal run through the middle of the pelvis?
    * Why does the backbone run down one side of the trunk instead of through the middle where it would be more balanced?
    * Why does the ankle attach at one end of the foot instead of in the middle?
    * Why are there toes?
    * Why is it that nearly every part of the brain is as far as possible from the piece of the body with which it is associated?
          o Why is the motor control center for the right side of the body on the left side of the brain, and vice versa?
          o Why is the vision center at the rear of the brain, as far from the eyes as possible -- and on the opposite sides?
    * Why is it that fully 90% of the genetic material we carry around is useless?
    * Why do we share a single canal through the neck through which we both breath and swallow?

Biology has explanations for these oddities. Creationism does not. "It was G-d's will" is not an explanation, it's an excuse for incompetence.

(Why are some people born with a mechanism that destroys the beta cells in the pancreas, causing Type 1 Diabetes that is ALWAYS deadly within a few months without treatment? Would an "intelligent designer" design his subjects like that?)

Richard Dawkins called evolution the "blind watchmaker" because evolution does not "see" what it produces, it merely tries out what happens with the stuff it finds. I find the term "incompetent designer" appropriate for a god who designs things like us. And I cannot pray to an incompetent designer. How could I?

Teaching Creationism has never helped a society and is bringing down many.

 

Dear Creationists,

I do not want the western world to become a second "Islamic" world.

Do you not understand that?

 

136,871 views 625 replies
Reply #401 Top

Dr. Dawkins in which he says that belief in evolution does lead to atheism.

This is true.  I heard him say this......I'd like to see that movie again.  He said more than that and I'm trying to put it in context but I can't remember.....something about the more you believe in evolution the less you believe about God?  That Evolution has a way of killing faith in God? 

Ya, I can see that happening. 

Reply #402 Top

Quoting OckhamsRazor, reply 21
A master of rationalization.  Bravo.

 

Were I to convert to Christianity, die, and spend an eternity with people who "think" (and I use the term loosely, thus the quotes) like this, I would find "heaven" to be particularly hellish.

 

So I reckon I'm screwed no matter who is right or what I believe.

that has always been a pet peeve of mine, every religion says that either the gods are cruel and there is nothing to expect after death, or that you will be lumped with like minded individuals. And if heaven is full of those kind of people it sounds like a hell to me.

Reply #403 Top

If Evolution Theory is true and mankind "evolved" from amoebas to animals, then man is liberated from God's standards of right and wrong, is sufficient in himself and answerable to only his own intellect and will. The autonomous individual determines what truth and reality as a guide for moral action. In short, there is no absolute right and wrong.

Unless of course evolution occured because god wanted it to. If god made us using something as complex as genes rather then baking us out of clay. The problem isn't evolution, its your insistence of gods magic being uncomplex.

As an atheist I would say that is one of the issues one has to contend me, I concluded that there is Good and there is Evil, and they are not very relative at all. if anything I find the oversimplifications in religion laughable and often time distasteful (there are a lot of "right" in religion that is pure evil, and a lot of "wrong" that isn't.)

Reply #404 Top

but it's not based on proof any more than Lula's conclusion from reading the Bible that there is a God - both require a leap over a great chasm of the unknown (faith).

This sums it up perfectly Daiwa. Both have to be taken by faith. I agree with you on this one!

It all starts with our biases.

As long as you understand that I'm talking about Dawkins' conclusion, not evolution itself.

Reply #405 Top

IQ posts:

evolution is largely a way to promote atheism. If you haven't seen Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, which I mentioned earlier, it has an interview with Dr. Dawkins in which he says that belief in evolution does lead to atheism. As he is an evolutionist (and a prominent one at that), I am inclined to agree with him. Not only that, but his beliefs led him to write an entire book on how God is a myth.

Yes, Expelled is one great movie. Ben Stein did a great job traveling the world interviewing people with both view points. As I recall, Dawkins was quite candid about the connection between atheism and evolutionary theory. Atheists have quite a stake in perpetuating the concept of evolutionary naturalism which is essentially equivalent to atheism.

I think the idea that all life originated through natural processes as opposed to supernatural processes is an atheistic religious concept held by faith. Yet, all government schools teach it to unwary children at taxpayer expense, with textbooks that repeat information long known to be false, and completely ignore teaching alternatives branding them religion and off limits.

 

Reply #406 Top

Expelled is one great movie.

Wrong.

HORRID AND UNSCIENTIFIC, a slap in the face of true journalism and rational thought.

Embarrassing.

Reply #407 Top

So both Evolution and Creationism call for belief by both faith and study. Faith proceeds all study. Creationism begins with Divine faith (in the Genesis account)that cannot deceive, whereas Evolution begins with human faith that is fallible.

More apples/oranges false comparisons.

Evolution does not require or 'call for' faith in any external influences, it only requires study.

I agree, creationism begins (and ends) with Divine faith.

Evolution did not begin with human faith, it began with observation of the real world.

Reply #408 Top

ignore teaching alternatives branding them religion and off limits

Because they are religion, not 'teaching alternatives,' and should be off limits.  Is your God so weak & lame he can't teach them divinely through parents and the church?  Is your God so powerless, cowering before the false god of Evolution?  If God's in charge of this rodeo, how the heck did the notion of evolution ever occur to anyone?

Wait, I can hear it coming already...   Temptation?...   Could it be... Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatan?

Reply #409 Top

Could it be... Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatan?

Zee Deveel made Darwin do it.

Reply #410 Top

this reminds me when some state voted against ID, some minister was on the news saying that they have voted for SATAN and have voted god out of their state.

Yes, atheists are really just pawns of satan. They are not REALLY atheists, they are SATANIST! (also, buy harry potter books to burn them (making JRR more money and getting more of them printed), and harass DnD players because it is teaching kids magic!)

Reply #411 Top

PS. ironically, dawkins was invited to see the premiere of expelled, from which he was expelled (well, actually not allowed entry) at the request of ben stein. pretty funny and ironic actually

I love it how you keep on latching at authority figures. I like the way dawkings phrases some things, I disagree with others, but I understood evolution long before I heard of him, and I honestly couldn't give a rats ass if he decided to disavow it tommorow.

He himself redicules the faith based approach with some parody examples:

1. (regular scientific method) after examining examining the evidence found in upper layers of <blah blah list of evidence> we conclude that a meteor killed the dinasaurs... pretty normal right?

2. (here the crazy starts) The dean of the darwinians has delcared that ALL LOYAL darwinians must hereforth beleive that a meteor killed the dinosaurs.

3. It has been privately revealed to the bishop of organic chemistry that a meteor killed the dinosaurs.

4. While meditating, ranking members of the sect of scientism have been divinely inspired with the knowledge that a meteor killed the dinosaurs...

And so on...

Technically you COULD reach the conclusion that god is real with scientific reasoning. And I know people who have FAITH in scientists (and care only for who said what, rather than taking a scientific approach). But nobody does, religions preach FAITH over REASON because faith keeps people in line. If people start asking questions they might become atheists, they might convert to a different sect, they might START their own different sect... etc...

Reply #412 Top

Put up all this so called evidence to the contrary.

The idea the universe is billions of years old and the earth is hundreds of millions of years old comes from false science

4....Charles Lyell spent a great time theorizingand became the basis for evolutionary on sedimentary strata....even though 20th century discoveries in radiodating, missing strata and strata "overthrusts" have completely nullified his theory. In order to prove his theory, Lyell was quite willing to lie about the facts about the erosion time of Niagra Falls...He changed erosion of 3 feet a year to one foot a year which would have meant the Falls had been flowing for 35,000 years when in truth the math takes us back 7-9,000 years which would have been expected after the Great Flood

 

wellllll...

 

i hadda go back a bit to find the blog in which lil ole danielost (who seems to have disappeared thankfully) claimed he could prove our planet was only about as old as lula claims it to be based on his complete ignorance of the stratification revealed in the grand canyon which he offered as evidence for the great flood.

 

i posted the following in response.  it received no comment whatsover--neither from him nor lula (who was another party to that discussion) nor any of the others of you whose faith is so shamefully feeble it drives you to corrupt the very essence of faith by insisting it's not necessary because you have proof.   yall musta forgotten proof is the currency of skeptics and unbelievers.  true believers can't be swayed by mere evidence or facts.

in any event, here's what i posted then.

lil lost dani pronounced:

Reply #413 Top

6...In 1861, L:ouis Pasteur disproved the theory of spontaneous generation...that life cannot arise from non-living materials.

who was it proposed that spontaneous generation theory btw? who propogated it for over 2000 years, most of those having passed during the time when the church's authority in all matters was paramount.

 

was the origin of life so casually considered by the great minds of the church not one of them refuted--much less condemned or murdered anyone who remained convinced--the possibility maggots brought themselves into being?

Reply #414 Top

who was it proposed that spontaneous generation theory btw? who propogated it for over 2000 years, most of those having passed during the time when the church's authority in all matters was paramount.

Evolution claims that one lifeform evolves from another.

Creationists claim that lifeforms came to be from thin air.

Creationists also believe that by demonstrating how lifeforms to not come to be from thin air, they have disproven evolution.

That's the weird part.

 

Reply #415 Top

Kingbee, that doesn't work.

If you release too much actual science into a Creationist, she will shut down for a minute, ignore everything you said based on the idea that the world cannot be so complicated that she cannot understand it, reset, and start again pretending never to have been told of whatever fact it was you tried to convey.

Creationists are not built for complicated subjects. "Some sort of magical being created the world" is the most complicated explanation they can understand without special coaching.

 

Reply #416 Top

Creationists claim that lifeforms came to be from thin air.

Leauki,

Egads! .....it's the 414th post of your blog on Creationism....It's time to get it right.....Creationists claim that all lifeforms came to be per Genesis "in the beginning" from the One Holy Almighty Creator God, and only from Him. Mankind is a special creation with an eternal soul.

That is what Evolution Theory denies.  

 

Reply #417 Top

Creationists claim that all lifeforms came to be per Genesis "in the beginning" from the One Holy Almighty Creator God, and only from Him. Mankind is a special creation with an eternal soul.

So as I said, Creationists claim that lifeforms came to be from thin air.

And despite the fact thart they cannot reproduce the trick in a lab to any extent AND cannot explain how this "god" thing works, they insist that Creationism is a "science".

 

 

Reply #418 Top

Papa Smurf created all animals!

As scientific as Creationism. Should be taught in schools.

 

Reply #419 Top

Evolution claims that one lifeform evolves from another.

Exactly.....Atheists took Darwin's natural selection and other intellectual levers in an attempt to pry God from His Throne and ran for a touchdown.....but didn't quite make it.....for true science and right reason finds God to be the Creator and final end of mankind.

 

Reply #420 Top

Quoting Leauki, reply 414
Creationists also believe that by demonstrating how lifeforms to not come to be from thin air, they have disproven evolution.

That's the weird part. 

Well, of course it is weird to you, you think that creationism and evolution are totally unrelated.  Of course, I might remind you that it was you who brought up evolution in the first place, in the original post, as being a superior alternative to creationism.  That seems pretty silly to me if you actually thought they had nothing to do with each other.

So really the only problem you must have with creationism is that creationists say evolution couldn't explain how all of our different species originated.

For KFC:

... evolutionists believe that mutations can lead to an increase in genetic information and thus lead to the development of new structures and features (an addition of information to the genome); creationists believe that this cannot happen (they believe this always causes a deletion of information from the genome)....

Genetic limits = lack of information.  As Lulapilgrim said, one kind of creature or organism cannot evolve into another (i.e. a reptile will always be a reptile) because the reptile doesn't have the genetic code necessary for the change.  A reptile has no genetic code for hollow bones, wings, etc.  In order for that change to be made, information must be provided.  Assuming there is no supreme God, only random mistakes in gene copying and/or mutations can create this information.

As it is that I don't think genetic mutations are beneficial (as your son states), that creates a pretty solid species barrier or "genetic limit."  The information to continue simply doesn't exist within the creature.

Reply #421 Top

Exactly.....Atheists took Darwin's natural selection and other intellectual levers in an attempt to pry God from His Throne and ran for a touchdown.....but didn't quite make it.....for true science and right reason finds God to be the Creator and final end of mankind.

Try and pretend like you have at least some curiosity about all this around us and then multiply that by a hundred. That's how a scientist and most the rest of us feel for that matter. Creationist are saying "you can't know the answer to the question of how life began on this planet, it is unknowable". And you think think their motivations are to kill God, Wow!

Even if somehow evolution was proven impossible and the theory abandoned creationism would not be the accepted scientific theory by default. Creationism will never ever be science. It can't now nor could it ever meet even the minimum requirements.

Reply #422 Top

Leauki -

Don't know whether to bless you or curse you for this thread. ;)

Happy New Year, everyone.  May it be better than 2008.

Reply #423 Top

they insist that Creationism is a "science".

Hmmmm....honestly, although I use it, I'm uncomfortable with the word "Creationism"......I prefer Special Creation.

In a nutshell, I'd say Special Creation is belief that there is only one God..the Divine Trinity...the Infinite First Cause Who created all that exists, including space, time and matter. The concept of Special Creation can be certainly be discussed, investigated and studied by scientists. I call those believers in Special Creation "Creationists"...and scientists may or may not be Creationists.

 

Reply #424 Top

Well... Isn't that spaaaayshul?!?!  (God bless Dana Carvey)

Reply #425 Top

God bless you for being such a very charming person, Daiwa.