Biosphere - planetquality 72 for everyone?

Playing Drath and Alterians for a while I discovered an interessting exploit (or at least I think it is).
Biospheres, a structure that improves the planetary production by 10% and adding 3 to the plantes quality, can be razed and rebuilt like other structures. However, the bonus of 3 to the planetquality is NOT a bonus on first built only.
As a result you can max out all your planets to a quality of 72.
As the result is "slightly" overpowering id appreciate this to be fixed as iam too weak to resist the temptation ;)
36,504 views 51 replies
Reply #1 Top
Oh, I have just _got_ to try this! Thanks for the heads up!
Reply #3 Top
MMMMmmmm...
(Rushes off into game to try it.)
(Rushes back before getting there.)
umm... Dosen't it cost rather a lot?
Reply #4 Top
Well, what does cost matter when you turn your PQ-72 world into the most ridiculous money tree in the universe?
Reply #5 Top
can be razed and rebuilt like other structures.


Just change the can,... to can not be destroyed and that will stop that !! :)

Nasty

Reply #6 Top
I played with this some a couple of days after TA came out just for fun, but have avoided using the effected races since. I'd have a hard time resisting the temptation also ;) .
Reply #7 Top
I can see it now...a 5-world Altarian empire in an Immense galaxy just thrashing everyone else. Of course, woe to you if you lose a PQ-72 world...

Devs...was this intentional? Just curious.
Reply #8 Top
Fun killing patch in 3...2...1... ;)
Reply #9 Top
Gez thats nuts! Wow everyone is now findings these crazy bugs in there games. I have to see this. Man thats nuts just have 2 Econ worlds, 1 research and 2 ship production worlds and I really think everyone else is really screwed!
Reply #10 Top
So I don't understand how this is a Fun killing bug. Sure it is a bit unbalanced, or is it? It would seem to me that, by the time you researched and then built/demolished/rebuilt the same advancement to the degree described, there are MUCH better, more interesting, quicker and fun ways of winning. Or am I wrong? Seriously, it is kind of like saying, I can increase my chances of winning the loto by purchasing ten million tickets.

Best simply to ignore, or only use once or twice.
Reply #11 Top
Well, biosphere mods aren't all that expensive to research or build. You can just build/demolish them on the last empty square of a planet turn after turn and watch the PQ skyrocket. Thats insanely powerful on a smaller map, and still extremely helpful in bigger maps. Its like cheaper, overpowered, unlimited terraforming- you'll end up with many times the number of useable tiles everyone else has :P.

I'll agree, its not much fun or very interesting after the novelty wears off.
Reply #12 Top
They aren't that expensive to outright buy, either (the biosphere thing). It doesn't take terribly long to stack a planet with 72 tiles. It's more a novelty thing, just to see a class 72 planet. It really doesnt help much, though. Like spyder said, in the time it takes to get all the tiles, and build something else on them, the game was over 2 years ago.
Reply #13 Top
So I don't understand how this is a Fun killing bug.


That wasn't what I meant when I said, "Fun killing patch." I meant a patch that, in fact, kills fun. Many games strive to eliminate exploits like this. I was making a joke.


But yeah, I'm generally in the "ignore it or use it once" camp.
Reply #14 Top
I've got mixed feelings on this.

Remember Star Trek III? (I think that was the number; the one before "Search For Spock".) The Genesis Project: Turn any world into a Paradise planet. Now, in the movie, they made the system flawed so that it eventually collapsed in on itself. But imagine if it had NOT been flawed. That would equal PQ 72 in GalCiv. The real challenge would be to keep it _out_ of the hands of your opponents (as in the movie).

Having it available is not as useful as it sounds initially, If you build (instead of buy) the Biosphere, then while you're building clear tiles, you are NOT producing anything else worthwhile on that planet. That's quite a few turns where you're NOT getting any benefit from that planet (other than taxes) (and ship building) (and research, provided those things are built). Anyway, you're looking at about a hundred turns of Biosphere building to convert a PQ 10 into a PQ 72. In practice, what you're averaging out to is the productivity of a PQ 30-40.

I still don't know how dramatic the overall effect is. I'll have to play a game from scratch with the intent of trying to milk this.
Reply #15 Top
I've got mixed feelings on this.Remember Star Trek III? (I think that was the number; the one before "Search For Spock".) The Genesis Project: Turn any world into a Paradise planet. Now, in the movie, they made the system flawed so that it eventually collapsed in on itself. But imagine if it had NOT been flawed. That would equal PQ 72 in GalCiv. The real challenge would be to keep it _out_ of the hands of your opponents (as in the movie)...snip...


So I like this. I have some questions though. In the movie, McCoy was worried about it being used as a weapon. Shouldn't we be able to use it to terraform a hostile planet? Maybe another planetary invasion method? Second, The "Genesis Wave" basically ravaged an entire planet. I would think, were that the intent, it would basically reset the planet to zero. Not a bad idea, but I would think that there should be more bang for the buck than simply +3 PQ?

Reply #16 Top
Shouldn't we be able to use it to terraform a hostile planet?


Take that a step further: Why couldn't you use that to colonize an uninhabitable planet?
Reply #17 Top
Shouldn't we be able to use it to terraform a hostile planet?


Take that a step further: Why couldn't you use that to colonize an uninhabitable planet?


1.) First, let's recognize that though similar, the Genesis thingy and the Biosphere are NOT the same thing. I'm assuming from the Biosphere mechanics that the Biosphere uses a localized effect. Something like affecting an area the size of Greenland. [Why the three new clear tiles are scattered all over the map from where the Biosphere was set up eludes me, however.] That would account for the need to use it several times to clean up an entire planet. [Which then begs the question: Why can't you set up several Biospheres simultaneously and clean up the entire planet at one go?]

2.) The Biosphere itself is essentially Terraforming x 3. Which highlights TERRAforming. That is, that whole line of research emphasizes that it converts a planet to be closer to the Terran environmental ideals. However, NOT all races find the ideal Terran climate to be ideal. The Yor, for instance, should find any world that doesn't corrode the machinery to be entirely acceptable. But the way the game works, _every_ race is competing for the same quality of real estate. The Yor's special ability of Super Isolationist allows them to have a head start on Barren planets. I think this was **supposed** to reflect that machines don't need an ideal atmosphere/environment. However, with that SA (and Super Adapter with Toxic and Aquatic planets) the advantage only allows immediate colonization at a 50% productivity penalty. That means that even for the Yor, an idealized Terran environment is still the most ideal environment for the Yor. What the game is lacking is a system of climate conversion suited to each of the races -- just like the tech trees that now are shaped for each race. Naturally, similar races like Altarians and Terrans would be competing for the same planets -- but they would no longer be competing against other races that prefer drastically different environments. And vice versa.

3.) Anything that shifts a planetary environment away from the norm that the indigent species prefers would constitute a weapon _against_ that indigent species. That means to some methane-breathers, Terraforming their planet would be one hell of an assault. Now, given the way the Biosphere works, I can see that in its present form, it is unsuitable as a weapon: you have to actually get onto the planet and spend several weeks of concerted work to effect the limited environmental changes. But given enough time, history demonstrates that nearly every beneficial advance has been perverted to a warmongering angle. (And conversely, many weapons have been found to have useful civil applications as well. Such as, the atomic bomb led directly to the develop of nuclear power reactors.) Sooner or later, some military genius _will_ figure out how to make a T-bomb. Another HOWEVER is: How does this differ from indiscriminately dropping nukes on a planet during Planetary Invasion?

I think that's enough points along these lines for now.

Reply #18 Top
Um, I think you mean indigenous. Indigent means something else.

And yes, Bio-spheres mean something different than the Genesis Wave. It was just idle fancy that made that line of speculation interesting.

As far as TERRAforming is concerned, we humans are so parocial. We see everything from the "Human" perspective. In Astronomy, Stars are called "SUNS" and distances are based on AU's (the distance from the Earth to the Sun), etc... I find it funny. So why should video games be any different?
Reply #19 Top
In the XML file, the Biosphere Modulator has a line which reads:

Code: xml
  1. <ManualDestruction>1</ManualDestruction>


I think that if you change the 1 to a 0 then it will stop you from being able to demolish the improvement once it has been built.
Reply #20 Top
I thought this was corrected in the last patch?
Reply #21 Top
I thought this was corrected in the last patch?


Not from what I found last night. I have a game going where I'm doing this on every planet. It's actually the first one that I've ever played with the Altarians, so it's got a bit of a learning curve to it. It's a tiny map, and at this point, everyone has surrendered to the Arceans, so I'm a bit out-numbered.

But, at least I am, at heart, such a turtler that I should have Splinter as my icon. So, I've got that going for me. Which is nice.
Reply #22 Top
As far as TERRAforming is concerned, we humans are so parochial. We see everything from the "Human" perspective. In Astronomy, Stars are called "SUNS" and distances are based on AU's (the distance from the Earth to the Sun), etc... I find it funny. So why should video games be any different?


Well, I note that it wasn't until ToA that each race got its own tech tree, mainly to highlight their individuality. Perhaps, many lightyears down the road, we'll see a GC version that has the different races interested in different real estate. And in that version, each race will have the ability to transform other environments into the one preferred by them.
Reply #23 Top
I reported that as a bug a while ago in this thread: WWW Link

Hopefully they'll fix it in the June patch.
Reply #24 Top
Hopefully they'll fix it in the June patch.


Hopefully? If the AI doesn't use it, and nothing makes you use it, why does it have to go away?
Reply #25 Top
Because it is a bug?