yea everyone always goes to voyager to point out that 1 lonely little ship beat up on the borg. Thats really where star trek fantasy really took off. They didn't stick to many of the rules that were set in motion by the other trek series(canon specs). If transphasics were really able to be used, don't you think they would have used them in Nemesis ( just a thought mind you, Janeway is already an admiral at this point which means the movie takes place after voyagers return) you have a ship with about 13,000 terawatts of beam power going up against cubes with 1 million terawatts....lol!

I'll go look now! you rock bud!!!!!!!

ds

That diamond looks great. Can't wait to see it in game.

DANMAN

I love the idea of this mod! However, I see problems with the ship replacements. The Diamond can't be a frigate, as it is the Queen's ship, and has only ever been in like one or two episodes. I think instead, the Sphere should be the frigate. Also, the cap ship limit would need to be changed, right? I mean, it's always inferred that the Borg have hundreds of cubes, so limiting it to 6 sort of makes them a little wimpy. I would suggest that the Cube be a cruiser, but it IS supposed to be the most powerful of the Borg ships.

One idea though. Somehow, we need to be able to build the Unicomplex

The Cubes will have to be limited, because they are so powerful.
As far as the frigates, I have changed those a bit. Most of the frigates will now be assimilated versions of other race's ships. (See earlier in the thread for a screenshot of the Assimilated Miranda.)

-Draven

Im not sure how draven sees this mod but if he indulges my whims, the ships for the most part will be as listed on the first page... did you read all of this post?

why would there only be 6 cap ships in game? we can change cap limits with ease... anyone can.

which cube which sphere? there are a few types.

the unicomplex is under development, please re read the rest of the posts in this thread.

I like the fact that you were interested but you were just too unclear as to your meaning if you wouldn't mind clearing it up a bit I or draven should be able to help you.

ds

haha draven I just realized I'm kind of butting into your mod lmao! sorry dude, let me know if I'm being too much of a di**.

ds

xxx_diresaint_xxx,

No problem, I welcome the help. I have added you to the official team-list for this mod at the top of the thread. Keep up the good work, it looks great.

-Draven

POLL:

Is there any interest in keeping the vanilla races playable? Or would you peeps prefer to restrict the races to the ST galaxy?

(The reason I ask, is that if we keep the vanilla races, I will create some assimilated versions of their ships.)

-Draven

Keep the vanilla races playable in my opinion. Gives more variety.

well it not just in the voyager series as the sagvage class(ie enterpise E) and the interpeid class(ie voyager) are both developed for fighting the borg.

the more races the better its better than haveing 2 races the same i think.

I agree,

I think it would be nice to have more variety & even cooler if their ships were assimilated, However, I do think that the primary focus should be Star Trek ships. Once you have the bulf of peoples favorite Star Trek ships in game, you could add/leave-in anything you wanted and it would enhance the mod.

Again though,

This is some incredible work, cant wait to see more!


Adm Cobbs

POLL:

Regarding balancing...

How do you think that an Assimilated ship would compare to its non-assimilated counterpart?

Would it be...
1. Tougher over all
2. Weaker over all
3. Exactly the same as the original
4. Tougher weapons but weaker shields or hulls
5. Tougher shields or hulls but weaker weapons
6. Any other ideas


Obviously, the Borg would try to improve on any design, but as the Borg's own ships are already more powerful than other races, I'm running into the expected balancing issues.


Also, I would like ideas on where people think the Borg's weaknesses are. I need some vulnerabilities.


-Draven

I think you should so stronger weapons (the borg have increased weapons output) and less hull (the ship was damaged when it was assilmated)
but thems just my thoughts

A couple more of my ideas on the borg... As I said before, I thikn they should have very limited ship production capabilities, but should be able to assimilate other races ships. Assimilating ships would not be like a guaranteed thing, as it will take time, and if the borg ship is destroyed before the assimilation is complete, no sucessful assimilation of the enemy ship. The assimilated ships should, IMO, be slightly stronger in the shield department, with maybe an "Adaption" ability, basically an ability that way boosts mitigation and shield points for a short time, but has a long recharge rate. Eventually I think you should be able to research a "subspace beacon" which works on the novalith model, except with a waaay longer cool down time, and instead of spawning a projectile it spawns a cube all transwarp-y, so then you can go on a rampage. I would want a way to ensure that the Borg player doesn't just build a bunch of these subspace beacons, and I'm not quite sure how to do that yet, but maybe make it take up all the maxed out tactical slots on a planet? I dunno, just more of my random ramblings...
Tell me what you think

Ezraeil

I would vote for weaker all around say 25 to 50 percent, just because if a ship is boarded they will wreck it before they can upgrade the ships systems.

ds

Ezraeil,

In regards to assimilation...

Right now, I just have assimilated versions of other races ships as buildable for the Borg.

Your description sounds much more ideal: Like if we could make it so that when the Borg attack a ship of another race, instead of it exploding, it would be converted from "player x" over to the Borg player, meanwhile switching which entity file is used for the ship that has been assimilated.

The problem is, as far as I know, there is no way to make Sins do this. Do you actually know of a way to have Sins change which player an attacked ship belongs to? And if so, is there also a way to make Sins use a different entity file for that ship at the time ownership changes to the Borg?

The only other option I think we have is to make “Assimilate Miranda”, for example, an item in the research tree for the Borg. In that way, once they research “Assimilate Miranda”, they would then be able to construct Assimilated Miranda ships.


-Draven

I'm either done or about to be other than a texture, any suggestions?







ds

I think the Borg already add balance to themselves by the way they expand in a particular area. The idea of assimilating ships and planets works really well for their growth (and limits how powerful they can get based on who/what they acquire along the way). From a ship stand point, they don't have many different designs, but this is a good thing really. The Borg can acquire other ships as they fight, one ship becomes two, two become four, and so on. So if you only have 10 Cap-ships/Cubes (and a few smaller support units) you could assimilate ships as you go and regenerate the ones you have already. The limiting factor is that the ships they capture along the way are relatively weak (and no doubt have been damaged until regenerated). Yes, one ship took out half the fleet at Wolf359, so the question remains, WHY SEND ONE SHIP? Because the Borg assimilate, not mount invasion. You don't need a lot of ships to be effective, you don't need to weaken them to add balance. By making Cubes Capital ships with the ability to capture other ships a key factor you can force the Borg to be the aggressor (which they always are). Besides, how in the world do you explain the population growth on their planets? It's not happening from the Borg gettin' busy, it's entirely by enslaving other planets and ships. This factor alone makes the Borg well balanced because their growth is limited to the growth of the territory around them (making bigger targets more enticing to attack, more to gain).

My two Cents. Sweet Mod btw! I cant wait!

excellent point! maybe we should only design one or two borg ships per class..

frigates - 2

probe and colony

cruiser - 2

tactical sphere

tactical cube

capitals - 2

queen diamond

assimilation cube

and flesh out the rest with assimilated ships...

make the queen diamond about half the power of a assimilation cube? or slightly weaker than an average cap ship?

Yes, what I want to do is make the Cube and Tactical Cube the only "original" Cap Ships that the Borg have. These ships will be mean beasts, and will be quite expensive to build.
The heavy frig will probably be the Sphere.
The Cruiser will probably be the Diamond (This ship is used to carry the Queen, but is not all that tough on it's own as far a raw firepower. Rather it relies on the protection of the other ships. This ship's strength will be in Abilities).
Scout ships will be the small rectangular scout ship as seen in Voyager series. I'll have this one done soon.
I'm not sure what to use yet for the Colony ship.

All the other ships will be assimilated ships from other races.


xxx_diresaint_xxx,
The Diamond you have there looks awesome! Get it to me so I can test it in the mod to check its scaling against the existing ships, as we will probably have to go back and tweak its size a bit. Ideally, it will be about the same size as the Sphere.

-Draven

Okay, well I know nothing about modding this game, so it is excellent if you can change some of these limits. I apparently didn't read enough earlier, but I must say, I love where this mod is headed. I'm no good at 3D modeling or modding, but I am a huge Borg fan and can't wait to see what you all come up with!

hey draven, I just pm'ed you a link to the queen diamond model sorry it took so long!

has anyone tried hammersons new mod the new ability he gave the longrange frigates is perfect for assimilations!

ds

So a lot of work is being done on the mod currently, and things are moving right along.

1. I have created a bunch of assimilated versions of various ships, and I'm working on more. The biggest issue we have currently is how the Borg get these ships.

-Obviously, the ideal way is to create some way for the Borg to assimilate them from other players, but this is proving problematic. I have another thread discussing various ways we might make this work. We can make the Borg capture a ship from another race, but having the ship actually change to the assimilated version is where we are stuck.

-They could be items that must be researched before they can be constructed.

-They could be spawned in place of a destroyed ship. The problem with this is I don't think we can spawn a specific ship based on which ship is destroyed.


2. diresaint has created an improved mesh for the Borg Diamond, which I have yet to test but looks good so far.


3. I've made some improvements to balancing, and am also working on the buttons/pictures for the various ships.


More news to come!


-Draven

draven!

I dont know if this helps but HammerSun has released the text version of his ability files so that may speed up your development a bit or at least give you possibly other options you may not have thought of.

ds

diresaint,

Awesome work! I tested the diamond in-game and believe it or not it is the exact perfect size already.

So all it needs now is the texture work.


Which ability from HammerSun's mod were you thinking of using? What does it do?


-Draven