On second thought, I'll agree with you it is not a 'true' business in essence but I don't see why they can't take advantage of capitalism here. If I'm not mistaken the gov't takes advantage of it more often then we probably realize.

Any contractual work constructional or technological are all done through a bidding process. The lowest bidder usually being the winner of the contract. The same is said for fuel, vehicle purchases, etc. So if they practice capitalism in their purchases why can't they do the same on their offerings?

JMO

Mainly just religious based, as the government is violating its own laws by favoring one in some manner over another. Overall, I really don't think any plates should have special interests on them. They're license plates! If some guy just did a hit and run on me, I don't want a witness mistaking a snake for an "S" or a totem pole for an "I". If you want to personalize your vehicle, use bumper stickers or license plate frames. And if the state is going to allow custom plates, I better be able to have whatever I want put on it as long as it doesn't impair the identifiability of the plate.

I really don't have a horrible problem with this within limits. If some people want to pay an extra $10, $20, or whatever and that saves me and everyone else a few pennies or gets an extra pothole filled fine. The problem is with the religious favoritism shown. If they are going to offer Christians plates, they better be offering them to the rest of the religions with equal accessibility.

I'm not sure how Florida generates ideas for these plates. Having been part of an effort to get a set of plates here in Virginia (the yellow and white with the funky looking house on it for Home Educators, for all you Virginians. Don't blame me ... I just ran the petition, I didn't design the damn thing), I can say that it's not an act of the legislature that gets it approved. All you have to do is have a design, a petition (minimum of 250 signatures) as well as 250 preorders (PAID preorders, at that). Once you meet those, the design gets run through the DMV's system and it's ready to go. From that point on, anyone can pick it out of the lineup at the DMV (and the nice display that covers 3 walls in the local offices is tres gauche).

And none of the organizations that have custom plates (and some charities, even) have any association with the Commonwealth above and beyond the plates. No support. No discrimination. If a Christian group wanted to get plates, and could get the 250 minimum orders together, they could get the same plate here in VA. DMV won't necessarily offer one for Muslims or Bhuddists, but they've got the same access to getting the signatures together and putting a plate together.

I don't see the problem here....only the bias against Christianity. 

Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty plates celebrating everything from manatees to their favorite sport's teams....but wow mention Christianity and all HELL breaks loose.  I'm sorry to inform you but there are people who believe in Christianity as much as others believe in their sports teams. 

The reason this is even being discussed is because it's sponsored by Rep Bullard.  He said:

"People who believe in their football team already have license plates they can buy.  The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with something they believe in." 

So what's the problem?  One driver "believes" in the Miami Heat and another "believes" in God.  Who cares?  If someone else wants to put the Star of David on their plate....more power to them.  Atheist?  Go for it!  Who cares?  You can get bumper stickers that say these things.

The ACLU has made a statement about it, saying,The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it “sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state” and, second, gives the “appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference,” said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Good ol' ACLU....gotta love em! Who pays for the court costs when they get involved in such trivial stuff?   

Really tho?  How so?  If you can put a manatee on your plate does that mean the State is endorsing Manatees?  How about a sports team? 

Keep in mind that a "Trust God" and a "Trinity" plate has already been denied. 

 

Wow, way to ignore the whole thread. :CONGRAT:

Against? It's the only religion that got a plate...how is the bias against and not for? You can't, as a Buddhist or a Muslim, for example, request a personal plate for your own religion. You don't see anything wrong with that? Really?

Fortunately the Pastafarians have gotten involved. Quote from their site on the subject:




So I hope the Christian plate is approved. I want a FSM plate

Which laws and how would they be violated in your view?

My guess is that you are referring to separation of Church and State. I guess I'm not seeing how the lines are being crossed. If some portion of that money goes to a religious organization like the University plates do in CO then I would support your argument.

I suspect this to be the same in most states. If this is the case in Florida then I totally support it.

Side Note: I support the FSM plates too

I totally support this WHOLE thing.

If 250+ people want a special plate and want to pay extra for it....by all means GO FOR IT!

My concern is this. If we say a religious organization can't do this.....it continues from there. I look at the religious organizations relatively similar to the 'special' interest organizations. Once you start restricting one over another...it seems like it becomes a slippery slope.

JMO

Yep, that would be it.


A line may not technically be being crossed here, as it is not the federal government acting here, and it can't really be said that a law is being passed in this case. It just strikes me as wrong on more a matter of principle.

Actually, I think it was proposed by some councilperson or something, but I could be wrong.


I think we see/saw the slippery slope at different points, though your post makes me wonder if the slope was already crossed and is the source of the problem. The slope I worry about is religion insinuating its way further and further into government; but as you observed, in some ways religions are no different than other special interest groups, which makes me wonder what business government has endorsing any of these.

Considering the 250 signatures option some states have, it makes it plain to see that it does not constitute an endorsement in those states (though I have to wonder if they would allow Satanic symbols or inverted crosses or deem them "offensive"). And the requirement of 250 signatures might constitute discrimination of religions with low concentrations of adherents in the area. However, as I said before, I think the Florida plate may have more to do with a government official trying to push this through than public demand. The demand probably is there, but if there is no formal way for it, or "competing" designs, to be satisfied outside of legislator influence then this is a problem and perhaps the legislators of Florida should be trying to represent all interests by passing a general procedure like has been previously mentioned rather than pushing for an exception just for their favored religion.

Unfortunately, it is a lot harder to arrange for speciality plates in the state I live in here in Australia.  That said, I would love a set of FSM plates too.

I would love to see people's reaction to them.

"What the hell is that?"

"Are you dissing my religion, bitch?"

"You worship that?"

"Yeah, something wrong with it? Do you dare question the noodly divinity that is our lord?"

And about that time they'll be walking away.

~Zoo

Zoo represents, Yo!

I don't care about the noodly divinity, I just think it would be fun to have the

"What the hell is that?" reaction!

Fair enough. It sounds to me that we agree for the most part then. I agree if they refuse another special interest organization that wants an upside down five pointed star or upside down cross even though they meet the requirements (ie 250 signatures, etc) then the line has been crossed (no pun intended).

I think they should ban these Jesus plates, if for no better reason than that they are horrendously gaudy and ugly. A licence plate that couldn't fit in perfectly with a black sports car has no business being used in a nation of the civilised.

Just look at the thing. It's like a sunrise vomited and its vomit turned into a stained glass window and then someone stuck a shiny plastic cross onto it to cover its shame. It's the kind of licence plate that encourages public violence.

well you don't have to worry.....it's all been thrown out. There will be no "I Believe" plates in Florida. So if you're going to believe in anything it's not going to be Christ.....at least on your license plate.  (:( 

Woohoo LW, and I agree. *Marks calendar* j/k

No. It isn't. It's not the government's job to run itself as a business. They are not getting paid like businesses and they shouldn't run like businesses.

I am sure they chose Christianity because it provides the largest number of suckers that would give more money to the DMV for such a licence plate. But the government is specifically forbidden to promote a religion. It doesn't say "even if it makes extra money".

I can see preferring Christianity over other religions (because it's the majority religion) when the purpose is something that has to be done and the question, whom will we serve first. For example, there is probably a need for one or two yearly big holidays and why not choose a Christian such (Christmas and Easter). In that case the government is not so much promoting a religion as it is acknowleding a religion.

But there is no genuine need for religious licence plates at all. They are not acknowledging demand and a limit on what to offer, they are simply promiting a religion. And that is illegal.

For example:

1. State schools acknowledge Christmas as a national holiday and do a Christmas thing.

This is fine because there should be national holidays and school parties/plays. Christianity is chosen here because it covers the most people. You also cannot have too many holidays and school parties hence you have to choose one or the others. The government is here not promoting a religion but merely acknowledging its existence.

2. State schools organise prayers for the students in class.

This is wrong because school prayers are not needed and there is hence no need to introduce them at all. School prayers COULD be introduced for any religion or all (major) religions, hence there is no reason to favour one. Introducing school prayers and choosing Christianity for them would hence be a violation of the law forbidding the promotion of a religion by the state.

 

I'd have to anonymously, as I don't want to lose those days off :LOL:, disagree here. While I am not going to complain about the extra days off, I think the government is out of place deciding such things as which religious holiday's to celebrate. The school situation isn't as bad though, as it usually isn't just a single day (at least it wasn't when I was that young) and is labeled a "Winter Break"; but when government offices are closed for Christmas, that strikes me of favoritism.

I live here and I didn't even hear about that!:LOL:  And no, I won't be getting one!;P