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Draginol
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
+137

Scoring the debates

Where we stand..

October 8, 2004 9:43:45 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I judge Kerry as the winner again in this debate.  If I were to numerically score this based on my "gut" I'd give it like this:

Debate #1:
Kerry 5
Bush 2

Debate #2:
Cheney 2
Edwards 1

Debate #3:
Kerry 5
Bush 4

Total so far: Kerry/Edwards: 11  Bush/Cheney: 8

What do you think?

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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
+7
Reply #1 October 8, 2004 9:44:44 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Again, it isn't what Bush says, it is how he is saying it. In the end we have to have hope that reasonable voters will see the difference between well-spoken, empty rhetoric, and plain-spoken, sometimes roughly conveyed reason.

They both dodged questions, at about an equal rate. They both misspoke several times. The fact is I'm not sure that Bush is much worse than he was in 2000, with a great deal more stress involved with the massive levels of angst levelled at him. I think the difference is mainly what an utter jerk Gore was, and how accomplished Kerry has become after 40 years of this kind of pandering.

I heard tons of hastily thrown out statistics and allegations by both candidates. I think you can expect the anal-retentive to have a lot to talk about. That tally will probably determine the real winner, I'm afriad.

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Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #2 October 8, 2004 9:46:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think the worst you could call this is a draw. I felt they both did a good job of presenting their positions and they've left us with the opportunity to make a decision based on their positions rather than their style. I count that as a victory for both, and for us for that matter.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
Abanamore
Join Date 01/0001
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Reply #3 October 8, 2004 9:52:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I would say Bush clearly won. Kerry has all the advantage of hindsight and even then, what is his many "plans" in detail? Anyone can say "I have a plan" it's much harder to actually come up with and pull it off. Kerry is a shot in the dark and we cannot afford that in the world today.

ggray97
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #4 October 8, 2004 9:54:52 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Kerry - 'George W. Bush owns a timber company...'

Bush - 'Well that's news too me...want some wood?'

I was laughing MAO.

Or how about the whole staring into the camera deal Kerry: 'I will not raise taxes...'

Minute later Kerry: '...rolling back tax cuts...'

Also Bush was tapping his foot like crazy! I thought he was going to start line dancing!!

- GX
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Draginol
Myrrander
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #5 October 8, 2004 9:55:34 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
the President was much stronger and more at ease in this debate -- it was miles above his first showing. He seemed to thrive in the atmosphere of the Town Hall Meeting, something that eluded his father. I agree with a slight edge given to Kerry, but this debate should serve to be very energising to the Bush base.
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Draginol
d3adz0mbie
Join Date 10/2002
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Reply #6 October 8, 2004 9:57:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Switch your scores for debate #3 Drag, Bush got alot more laughs and connected to the audience better than Kerry...not to mention Kerry really started stuttering at the end and was difficult to understand, thus taking off some of the 'style' pressure from Bush. People finally got to see that both canidates can stumble.
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #7 October 8, 2004 9:59:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Only tic that was noticeable to me was Bush's head-bobbin'. But that's OK, that's jes Tayhas.

Kerry seemed every bit the arrogant prick he is, if you ask me. Sorry, but that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
Draginol
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Reply #8 October 8, 2004 10:01:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I must add a caveat here: I heard 70 minutes of the 90 minutes on the radio.
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Draginol
Castle
Join Date 12/2002
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Reply #9 October 8, 2004 10:08:27 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If Bush and Kerry had 100 debates Kerry would win on Style everytime. However, I'd rather be served Bush's substance on a paper plate with a plastic fork than Kerry's style on a silver platter and a silk napkin.
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Draginol
mgosh
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #10 October 8, 2004 10:17:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If Bush and Kerry had 100 debates Kerry would win on Style everytime. However, I'd rather be served Bush's substance on a paper plate with a plastic fork than Kerry's style on a silver platter and a silk napkin.


It's what's served on the plates that counts, and I like what Bush is serving up!
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Draginol
Abanamore
Join Date 01/0001
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Reply #11 October 8, 2004 10:21:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Close ,very close,I will be voting for Bush because he is there.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
+7
Reply #12 October 8, 2004 10:28:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It comes down to background, I think. Gore was a legislator, but not for decades and not all that noteworthy, honestly. Kerry, on the other hand, has been inthe snake pit of the Senate swapping licks with people for ages. Of course he is going to be more polished than someone who has only been in the executive branch of government, state and federal.

If what I have heard is any indication, people are beginning to rely less on delivery. It wasn't the actually delivery in the first one, it was the long pauses that implied Bush didn't have a lot to say. That was translated into bad delivery, but it means a lot more than tonight's few mispoken words and normal human idiosyncrasies.
.
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Draginol
Castle
Join Date 12/2002
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Reply #13 October 8, 2004 10:29:01 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums


It's what's served on the plates that counts, and I like what Bush is serving up!


Exactly! and all the fancy dressing in the world wont hide Kerry's "Fear Factor" style cuisine
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CamMeg
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #14 October 8, 2004 10:37:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Amen~!~ Mgosh I'm with you Let's Eat!!!!! hehehehe oh and Bush has the WOOD for the BBQ hehehe I will not let that go Love it~!~
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Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #15 October 8, 2004 10:42:20 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Amen~!~ Mgosh I'm with you Let's Eat!!!!! hehehehe oh and Bush has the WOOD for the BBQ hehehe I will not let that go Love it~!~


Same here on the wood bit, expect to see that make it into the SNL Satire Sketch of the debate, it is just too good not to put it into the sketch!!

- GX
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Draginol
EventHorizon
Join Date 02/2003
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Reply #16 October 8, 2004 10:45:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
IMO, Bush did a little better than Kerry this time around...

He (bush) improved drastically from last Friday night, connected better to the people than Kerry did, but seemed a touch too defensive at times, which may have given the impression that he was 'cornered.'

Kerry did better than I expected him to, seemed more confident and more aware of the facts...was also very quick to 'disprove' arguments presented by the president...
(Now, whether he did any actual 'disproving' is open to discussion, but the pure appearance of his rebuttals was more convincing than last time.)

Kerry's (I think) biggest problem is his whole 'I have a plan' soundbyte repeated ad nauseam...
You have a plan? Thats great, have a cookie... Now what is your plan?
He really needs to elabourate on that...otherwise his plan sounds like a B-Movie plot that appears to have potential, but never develops into anything substantial...

...Or a make-believe agenda to get him into the presidency...

Really an excellent debate overall...loved the 'Thats news to me' line...

Abortion/tax money question left Kerry (not surprisingly) stuttering...
He's really no dummy and knows that there are people out there who view him as a 'Hypocrite'...Supporting abortion, and at the same time calling himself a 'Catholic'...
He talks about 'faith' while he doesnt follow the teachings of his own religion... Not much of a 'religious man' if you ask me.

Still, he did well.
Both of them did well.
Should be very interesting to see how the next debate turns out.

[Edited] for wordiness/clarity.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #17 October 8, 2004 10:58:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"He talks about 'faith', and at the same time, doesnt follow the teachings of his own religion... Not much of a 'religious man' if you ask me."


I noticed that he claimed to have supported Faith Based Initiatives, as well, when in other venues he has derided for the President's support of them.
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Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #18 October 8, 2004 11:19:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Kerry: "I would have used force wisely." Care to be a tad more specific? How dumb does he think we are? That was completely insulting.

Kerry: "Religion has been a huge part of my life, leads me today." Nice try.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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Draginol
Abe Cubbage
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #19 October 9, 2004 8:46:27 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
he doesnt follow the teachings of his own religion...


Neither does Bush...
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Abe Cubbage
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #20 October 9, 2004 8:48:13 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Total so far: Kerry/Edwards: 11 Bush/Cheney: 8


That's right about where I would put it too.
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #21 October 9, 2004 9:06:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #19 By: Abe Cubbage - 10/9/2004 8:46:27 PM
he doesnt follow the teachings of his own religion...


Neither does Bush...


Actually he follows his a LOT closer than Kerry follows his. Kerry supports abortion, the catholic (Kerry's a catholic) religon says that is a sin.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #22 October 9, 2004 9:26:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It honestly amazes me where the Catholic Church is on all this. I dunno how they can sit there and not have much to say about Kerry and Moore calling themselves Catholic... It's like me calling myself a Zoroastrian...
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Draginol
Abe Cubbage
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #23 October 9, 2004 9:27:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Kerry supports abortion, the catholic (Kerry's a catholic) religon says that is a sin.


Oh no! Youv'e got me there! Pointing this out completely validates your point, because I could never point to one stance that Bush has that is against his religion. No sireeee...
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #24 October 9, 2004 9:29:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"because I could never point to one stance that Bush has that is against his religion. No sireeee..."


you haven't, anyway...

Not that any of that is the TOPIC anyway...
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #25 October 9, 2004 9:44:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #23 By: Abe Cubbage - 10/9/2004 9:27:04 PM
Kerry supports abortion, the catholic (Kerry's a catholic) religon says that is a sin.


Oh no! Youv'e got me there! Pointing this out completely validates your point, because I could never point to one stance that Bush has that is against his religion. No sireeee


That post wasto make a valid point. Bush follows his religon a LOT closer than Kerry does. Part of his platform is far OUTSIDE his religon it ain't funny. And just for my information point out/link/whatever where Bush's stance goes against his religon.
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