Draft Inevitable — “no Brainer”

from JoeUser Forums

“The draft — which will include both boys and girls this time around — a no-brainer in ‘05 and ‘06.” — David Hackworth; www.hackworth.com

Hackworth’s position is that the war on terror, excluding Iraq, will require more boots on the ground and that no amount of sophisticated blockbuster weapons can effectively hunt down terrorists. The “Stop Loss” program of the Pentagon extending enlistments beyond contractual agreements in effect has transformed the volunteers as “backdoor draftees” who are determined to take a powder if the chance arises. This will inevitably lead to a draft in order to increase the number of grunts needed for a global rifleman’s war.

For those who espouse an all volunteer service, thanks to Rumsfeld’s shameless comment: that Vietnam draftees added “no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services…it took an enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone.”

The fact is the “no value” draftees in the last century fought two world wars and two major conflicts with honor. Also training time is no different for draftee or regular, and the length of service is determined by the duration of conflicts — unfortunately in this case unending.

Copyright © 2004 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: October 7, 2004.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

politics
21,923 views 64 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well done, steven, I think a draft is pretty likely no matter who wins the election.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #1 By: Myrrander - 10/7/2004 3:17:58 PM
Well done, steven, I think a draft is pretty likely no matter who wins the election


To both posters. I seriously doubt that the draft will happen. You fail to take into account one thing......the American people. Do you honestly think that they'll stand by and let this happen? I don't think so.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from PolMach Forums Top
Hell they hated it the last time there was one, come this time around there will be even more venom and hatred at it, not to mention that even the Military will be completely against it this time.

- GX
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, its not really up to the american people, and besides that point iraq is becoming more of a mistake every day. We may need to just pick up and leave if it comes down to going to war with Iran for REAL reasons (ie refusal to stop producing wmd's which they have ADMITED to. And in that case it would be with UN apporval. If their is adraft, it will be highly unsuccesfull because I know I would do everything in my power to prevent them from taking my family or my friends and their families.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
You fail to take into account one thing......the American people. Do you honestly think that they'll stand by and let this happen?


It won't matter what people think if we are unable to meet our committments with the neccessary manpower. When (or if) that point comes, a draft will be inevitable, whether the American people like it or not.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
When (or if) that point comes, a draft will be inevitable, whether the American people like it or not.


A cold chill just ran down my spine. Is there a draft in here?

(And that, folks, is called gallow's humor. )
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
To avoid a Draft;

Educate the young about the advantages of serving your country. I served for 6 years in the US Navy got to visit many foreign and domestic ports that I would have never went to otherwise, learned how to take care of myself and best of all the Goverment is now paying me back by footing the bill for the rest of my college education.

Get the kids to sign up now and a draft won't happen and they will get the benifits, wait for a draft and get subpar training and be forced to play army instead of Navy Airforce, Marines or Coast Gaurd.

Get drafted and be a target or enlist and become a valuable, trained military professional.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
To both posters. I seriously doubt that the draft will happen. You fail to take into account one thing......the American people. Do you honestly think that they'll stand by and let this happen? I don't think so.
When it comes to a ligitimate crisis, the people have NO voice.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Get the kids to sign up now and a draft won't happen and they will get the benifits, wait for a draft and get subpar training and be forced to play army instead of Navy Airforce, Marines or Coast Gaurd.
An enterprising man--enlist and become an entrepreneur.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
People who think the draft will happen forget that it is only through the Congress a draft can be instituted, (not through the executive branch). And over the past two years, three draft legislations were brought up, (two by democratic congressmen and one by a republican congressman). All three times they were handidly defeated. Plus, even if a draft bill would start to gain steam, then it would be killed by the filibuster rule. Because there is no way that in todays day and age, that senetors would 2/3 vote to overrun and stop a filibuster which would definately be started if a draft legislation even got close to coming to a vote.
Reply #11 from PolMach Forums Top
Tis a dead issue you say, tis is a dead bill always.

- Grim Xiozan
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #7 By: TasT - 10/7/2004 3:49:26 PM
To avoid a Draft;

Educate the young about the advantages of serving your country. I served for 6 years in the US Navy got to visit many foreign and domestic ports that I would have never went to otherwise, learned how to take care of myself and best of all the Goverment is now paying me back by footing the bill for the rest of my college education.

Get the kids to sign up now and a draft won't happen and they will get the benifits, wait for a draft and get subpar training and be forced to play army instead of Navy Airforce, Marines or Coast Gaurd.


Would be nice. But I will say this. Both of my sons would benefit from being in the military but neither will EVER enlist. Neither ONE can take orders. I'm afraid that both would end up in the stockade. If there *is* a draft and either one runs from it then that one will *cease* being *my* son! And they both know it.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
JUst voted one down in the last couple of days. Dems keep trying to make this point, and all the little Dem kids keep wetting their dorm beds over it.

It is just a scare tactic. They scare people, keep calling for a draft, and somehow people keep saying "Bush is gonna call for a draft". One of the lowest tacticts I have seen so far from rabid Bush-haters. Vote Republican, they don't want a draft...

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just to reiterate what BakerStreet said, this came up for a vote in the House of Representatives yesterday or the day before. It was backed by 2 democratic representatives and failed 405 to 2.

Only 1 of the co-authors was willing to vote for this legislation. With numbers like that, it is unlikely that the draft is going to come back within the next couple years.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
And the key to the situation is that DEMOCRATS are propelling the draft discussion because they believe that fear of such makes people vote for Kerry. It doesn't matter that Dems are the ones pushing, people think Kerry will magically put an end to all war, and Bush will draft them. One of the worst excesses of the election, imho, right up there with SBVrT...
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
For those who espouse an all volunteer service, thanks to Rumsfeld’s shameless comment: that Vietnam draftees added “no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services…it took an enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone.”

The fact is the “no value” draftees in the last century fought two world wars and two major conflicts with honor. Also training time is no different for draftee or regular, and the length of service is determined by the duration of conflicts — unfortunately in this case unending.


Now come on, Steve - you know that was taken out of context and that what Rumsfeld was saying is an undeniable fact. The volunteer military has lower training costs and higher efficiency due to lower turnover of troops. He was in no way dissing the draftees of prior wars, he was simply commenting on the fact that the contribution of those draftees, in general, is short-lived compared with that of the volunteers. You should not try to infer that Rumsfeld demeaned the service of any Soldier, Sailor or Marine, past or present.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

he was simply commenting on the fact that the contribution of those draftees, in general, is short-lived compared with that of the volunteers.
Duration depends on the seriousness of the war or need. In some event it could actually exceed a regular tour of duty. Also, Rumsfeld did not mention that draftees after discharge are still reservists on call.

Baker, I did not post this as a politcal statement.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
mmm, okay. *nudge nudge* I get ya. Of course you didn't ...

Reply #19 from PolMach Forums Top
We may need to just pick up and leave if it comes down to going to war with Iran for REAL reasons (ie refusal to stop producing wmd's which they have ADMITED to. And in that case it would be with UN apporval.


Can you honestly tell me that the UN would approve something like this with Iran, just look at what they have approved in the way of a resloution on the Sudan. There will always be someone who disagrees with us just to disagree with us. sorry to get off topic
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Baker, I did not post this as a politcal statement.


Of course. That's why you posted it under "Philosophy."

Wait, he what?
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
...

*cough*

( pssst... pseudosoldier ... insightful )
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nor as a philosophy; yet I do feel that young people should give some service to the country.
Reply #23 from PolMach Forums Top
Nor as a philosophy; yet I do feel that young people should give some service to the country.


So starting a Company or working in the Peace Corp is not a service to the Country?

Oh my, tell Bill Gates to tear down Microsoft, tell Howard Schultz to stop and tear down Starbucks, ressurrect Sam Walton and have him tear down Wal-Mart and Sam's, than after you have all the Companies torn down let us stop everyone in the Peace Corp!

Throw your companies away and quit working in the peace corp, we want your service NOW without delay!

- GX
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
So starting a Company or working in the Peace Corp is not a service to the Country?

Oh my, tell Bill Gates to tear down Microsoft, tell Howard Schultz to stop and tear down Starbucks, ressurrect Sam Walton and have him tear down Wal-Mart and Sam's, than after you have all the Companies torn down let us stop everyone in the Peace Corp!

Throw your companies away and quit working in the peace corp, we want your service NOW without delay!


And along with this, we want the US economy to fail, we want us to all become bums on the street corner, which will be crumbling, and we want us to not even be able to afford to have a military (drafted or otherwise).
Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
And along with this, we want the US economy to fail, we want us to all become bums on the street corner, which will be crumbling, and we want us to not even be able to afford to have a military (drafted or otherwise).


Wow, you catch on, service to a country is not just to a military, but also to many different facets that can be a Company, the Peace Corp, CIA, FBI, Government, etc.

To start drafting young people because you think they are doing nothing shows a gross misjudgment in what young people have contributed to society, is it not?

Or to say only service in the military is service to the country is that right?

There are many organizations that are National Service Agencies such as the Peace Corp that are non-military, is it right to belittle their contribution?

- GX