Why are tech firms desperately seeking H-1B boost?

By the way, see this article: Congress is holding H-1B boost 'hostage,' says Oracle lobbyist for more info on the issue.

The globe has become one market.   Fair wage for a corporation is what gets a certain level of work for the least cost.  Fair wage for an employee is one that meets their standards of living.

I want corporations to pay the least and sell me quality products and services.  If those fail to please me corporations will lose business and have to pay more.  I want to be paid fairly for the work I do.  If I'm not getting that I need to either work harder, communicate to my employer why I deserve more, or find somewhere else to work.

I'll tell you what I think is the biggest part of the problem in hiring U.S. citizens . . . minimum wage.  Get rid of that and you'll see fair wages.  You might not be happy what the market thinks fair is though.  

Trying to live, work and produce either products or provide services in todays world and plan for tomorrow using yesterdays standards just does not work. As Zubaz points out, it's a world market, we and the world need to realize it.  

Why do you shop Wal-Mart? (Maybe not you, but a great number of Amerricans)

The answer is the same. Cheaper prices. Bumping the limit for the H1B drives down wage costs, something employers like. The rest is just a smoke screen.

Brad as much said it before. It is a lot cheaper to hire an experienced person than to hire a non-experienced person and train them. And if you can get that experience for less, you buy the cheaper product (all else being equal).

The question in my mind is are these individuals really experienced?  In most cases I would bet NOT.  The only real advantage is the one that LittleWhip covers in her comments -- the fact that the employers can basically enslave these employees and keep them beholden to them for their place in this country.  They can pay them lower wages and the slaves, uh, employees can't complain and must accept it or be booted out of the country.

Why the Congress would ever oblige these slave traders should be beyond me, but it's not -- they are obliging the Oracles and Microsofts of the world because they get tons of money donated to their campaigns and tons of attention and TLC from the lobbyists that these companies employ.  They basically whore themselves out and accept bribery from these companies so that the companies can do what they wanted to do and not really have to worry, even as the double talking pols tell the citizens that they are doing their best to protect their jobs, and keep those jobs from going overseas.

That a single Democrat would ever support expanding H-1B visa offerings should be enough to have all members of all labor organizations swearing to never vote for them again.  Republicans, well, most people already know and expect that Republicans were long since bought and paid for by big business. Of course the voters don't really pay attention and wouldn't decide on this particular issue, even if they are too stupid to realize it is costing them jobs and opportunities.

You would lose too. They do have experience. Working at a lot lower wage (in India, China or wherever). They work for peanuts to get the experience, then come to America to get the bucks.

Experience working for peanuts, sure.  Real experience on systems here?  Maybe.  Still, it doesn't matter if they have experience or not, the companies that want these employees are still more than willing to waste a bit of the money they spend on these employees to train them.  After all, they'll just hold that training cost against the employee and pay them that much less.

The scene looks a lot different then I have ever thought. I've just passed school and this year I am giving entrance exams of several engg. colleges. The IITs are one of the best engg. colleges in the world. There are several top-notch companies who come for on-campus selection in these colleges. Having read all this, I think its better to be in your own country because the far world isnt that much of sweet as it looks from the far distances.

Whats wrong if one can develop something great for the world while company providing a platform. These companies are not making life easier of a single country. They are providing comfort to the whole globe without any partiality. I love Stardock as much as you all do. I want to work with them, develop something cool for customization. I dont know where from nation, caste or creed comes in. It all must depend on the qualification and caliber.

Ya, as far as the wages are concerned then the people must raise their voice for equal wages to all then the selection for a job will be purely based on the caliber and qualification.

I think there are some misconceptions about H-1B visas being spread here:

1) Not everyone can get one.  The employee has to prove credentials and the employer has to prove a case for the worker to get a Visa.

2) An employee can leave to another company when on a visa, they just need the next company to pick up on their sponsorship.

3) You can't underpay somebody who is on a visa.  The wage that you pay has to be within a certain rage of the current wage in the geographical area of employment.

Why do companies bring people in on visas?  Well, I know we do it because of talent.  As an example, I have a 3D artist that is absolutely amazing who works on contract from another country.  I'm working on bringing him over on a visa.  Our games team, on the other hand, has been searching for months for a decent 3D artist to hire.  We have spent thousands of dollars trying to find a good candidate- spent more than what a visa costs, and still don't have an employee.

You can't always "train" employees.  You can't teach somebody to have talent.  Even programmers have a great divide between talented (no matter the age) and simply "trained" or even experienced programmers.

I, personally, don't see bringing talent from other countries into our as a bad thing.  American was built on immigration.  I rather have the talent over here in the US versus in some other country.

 

Go Angie. What she said? Yeah, it's true stuff.

I actually happen to have a H-1B visa.

I wanted to work at Stardock. Stardock wanted me to work at Stardock. It took eight months to get all the legal complexities sorted out. And we were lucky, time wise. Fortunately I found a relatively productive way to spend my time.

It is a big hassle, at least for small companies. Yet they still do it because that is what they have to do to get the employees that they want. Maybe big companies are abusing it, but I would suggest that this is not true for most of them.

Places like Google and Microsoft have a huge need for talent - and at the top level, it is limited, and (arguably) cannot be trained. You know the people who were always at the top of the class - not just because they studied hard, but because they lived the subject? The "naturals"? Those are the people Microsoft and other companies want to hire. And they want to do it out of college, because otherwise they will be snapped up by other companies and may never come on the market again.

On a practical note, I am the sort of person you want coming to your country. I pay many thousands each year in taxes (without representation ;)); it would be more if I didn't invest a third of my salary in my retirement funds, mostly in the stocks of US companies. I contribute to charity and participate in cultural events. I don't cause trouble. And yet it was hardly easy or quick for me to get in.

Now, maybe you see this as a good thing. Indeed, you can make it harder for people like myself to get in, but doing so may reduce the ability for US firms to compete on a global scale. If I wasn't working for Stardock, there's a fair chance I'd have ended up working for a UK competitor - or founding one.

I would also note that most developed countries outside the US actively subsidize university-level education, and hence the US is getting quite a bargain when it imports talent from them. This benefits the US as a whole more than it does individuals, but make no mistake - it is a benefit.

If you really want to solve the problem, make it easier for people like myself to get green cards, rather than H-1B visas. That way, you'll be far more likely to keep the people who have skills that make it worthwhile for companies to import them, and you'll end up with more skilled Americans with money, which will itself generate more jobs of all kinds. There is room for us all here.

I don't want to belittle the problems that some people have finding work, but from what I have seen, the people with real passion for and ability in the IT field rarely have to look all that far for a job. The right jobs come looking for them. You may have to be willing to move, though hopefully not 3800 miles as I did.

KarmaGirl and GreenReaper answered this post exceptionally well.   

In this day and age, truly, there has to be room for everyone folks. Come on, think about, this is not only ours but everyones future.  

GreenReaper's post - QFT!

Just come to England, the buggers have already over-run us  (:(   

Spock is English??? I am soooo disappointed.

Can you name government program that hasn't been?

The answer is not to constrain the Visas that will be awarded, the answer is to tighten and enforce the policies around getting a Visa.

 

The issue is that there is a severe lack of quality American workers in the tech field right now. It's not a money issue, it's people with capability.

If the government won't provide the H-1Bs, then we'll still end up hiring them, they'll just have to work from where they are intead of coming here and paying taxes. But it's more ideal to have them here.

As for "training" Americans to be good enough, forget it.  First, people have to be interested in being trained. And secondly, there's no pay off for training too often. Why should I have to train someone just so that they can take off and go to an even higher paying job once I've spent the money training? 

It's a win-win for everone with H-1Bs.  Americans are not going without jobs because of foreign tech workers.

Froggy, that's a great point. Seems that very few people I know are trained in the tech fields. Most of the folks I know have office jobs or work in construction, restaurants, or furniture. I know a couple of folks that are trained as IT techs. On works for IT support at Ashley Furniture Industries, and the other is in the Navy (he got a degree in computer graphics at Full Sail, couldn't find a job, and is now an avionics tech for the Navy).

Most all of our techs [IT PROS] are very well paid and are mostly fresh out of school too. Oh we hire from out of the US. But mostly for those jobs there in those countries. Each Corp. is different and has it's own ways of doing things. Even larger Corp. like Microsoft does it - but they do what they have to do to get what they feel they need to do whatever the job needs to be done.
It is a catch 22 kind of deal. You see something you like - you get it no matter what it takes.
All of our people are retrained and training is costly. But so is not having those people trained to do the job. [IT Pros] in all parts of the world are being retrained for new industry.
Sure we hire those with a visa and help them out considerably too! But our main stream itensions are to hire locally and to train people locally; which where hired for this reason. Training would be anywhere and in most cases is in a totally different state or loacation. We do not consider it on the job training either and/or do not pay any different for those people being trained. Sometimes I find it cost me a little here and there for when I have to go to a class for some new training. But so what...
I believe everyone who has whatever ablities to do whatever job. Should be trained to do their job as good as expected. And that by everyone I mean even those hired under the visa for a local position.

The people I work with pay very well and have some of the best business practices I've ever had to live with. That and this also applies to the visa employees - they are treated fairly as if they where from the US.

Other companies may not do so. But that is not anything I can set my opinion for. Just what I know about the Corp. I work for and how they do things.

SGT  

I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a win-win, and I really don't like the idea that training someone is a waste of money.  It's a waste of money if you don't invest enough in them -- including paying them a reasonable salary -- to make them want to stay and grow with your company, but it's a complete loss if you are farming the work out overseas in any form, be it to a foreign worker on U.S. soil, or to an outsourced business.

Realistically, I have a nephew that is taking classes in the computer graphics field.  Where will he go when he finishes up his training (schooling)?  Answer, likely no where.  In the area we live the chances of him finding work in the field are poor.  He can move, and may find work if he does, but then will hit the chicken and the egg syndrome -- not enough experience.

That is the biggest problem all around still, not enough companies giving people a chance at gaining the experience.  Take your need for graphic artists, have you all tried interning some younger students?  Interns work fairly cheaply, you get credits (in many cases) for hiring them and providing them opportunity, and you potentially get your cheap labor to use while grooming someone that may come to work for you in the future.  Granted, you also spend time training them, and they may go off to work for someone bigger, or someone equal sized that pays more, but that is the free market.  If you want someone bad enough, you pay them.  Personally I'd rather see the person that is getting paid be a U.S. citizen, rather than someone from another country, at least until I know that unemployment in this country is ridiculously low, which it isn't.

My son is interested in IT work but doesn't have the experience.  Again, he's stuck jobless for now, as he's about to finish up a 2 year degree (actually not quite true, he's working completely out of the field doing another job for now, but it stinks because he's gaining -zero- experience in any field that will be long term for him), but even with the degree potential employers want experience or they want a four year degree instead.  Um, sure, spend much more money to get a four year degree and then get paid squadoosh because the employers still look at you with little or no experience and don't feel obligated to pay well.

I just don't see that we need to fix the problem by allowing many more workers into this country at this point.  Let the free market work, and let the employers pay more.  If prices have to be raised on Stardock products, then I understand that.  I may not like it, but I understand that.  I also understand that for those higher prices I may be helping to support U.S. workers rather than persons from other areas (or at least I would hope so).  I know you all have to keep prices competitive and have to work within the economy too, and yes, you have a bunch of employees to think about and when you need special skills it may be necessary to look harder, but who is really to say that the 3rd or 4th person you all interviewed that wasn't quite right and needed more training, or was just a bit too expensive for your budget wasn't the best guy after all?  If you've spent several more weeks looking for someone, how much could have been done by someone you brought in and trained, even if you wind up having to offer them a higher salary sooner rather than later?

It is not, because someone already did. Some companies do a lot of training, and others do very little. But one thing is for sure. No one is born knowing how to write Java, or Route a network. They all learn from somewhere.

The 'most qualified candidate' got the job already.  He travelled the 3,800 miles....;)

Companies are in the business of making 'stuff'.  Their role in life is not training people to make 'stuff'.  That is in theory the role of the educators....you know, those things with pupils/students in them....;)

 

Well, I can answer that- we have posted like mad to find another GR.  You know what we got?  Nothing.  He's a talented programmer who just "gets" what we do.  We're actually in the process of getting him a Green Card and are doing everything by the book.  We've put out all sorts of ads and didn't get anyone remotely qualified.

Yep.  Sometimes you have to import your talent.  In this case, it was a definite plus for America. 

We like hiring Americans, and we like hiring as local as possible (cheaper in the end, too!)  But, it's not always possible.

 

I've met GR on numerous occasions and i can assure you we, as Americans, should be glad he's here. Debating his qualifications for the job is fruitless since it is Stardock's opinion that he is the most qualified. That is all that matters in this case. The man is intelligent, very polite, courteous, and well respected. I'm glad I can say he's a friend.

Training isn't always the solution.  You can't train someone who doesn't have the necessary talent or interest.   Fact is, there are a lot of people who tried to get into IT because they heard the money was good, not because they had any passion for it.  You can't train those people up to an acceptable level, and it's not worth the effort because that person, regardless of the hours in training, will never be as good as someone who has the talent/motivation. 

And those people with the talent/motivation?  I've met very few who were ever out of work for very long.  Those that were, had trouble finding a job for very different reasons (personal attitude, appearance, lack of references, trying to get a job in a field that's overflowing with potential workers etc.