Multiplayer Concerns

1. You will not see "games in progress" in the list. As soon as a game is full and is started it is removed from the list.

2. Dedicated servers won't happen for this game as it is pure P2P. The "host" (host in name only) only "synchronizes" all of the "clients". All computers run the entire simulation on their own machines.

3. There is nothing wrong with having to learn a few things to game "safer". (devs that "encapsulate" / use NAT-traversal for their games are actaully endangering my PC, for the sake of dumbing-down network code). I appreciate solid network code. This game has that.

**you did have to learn a few things in order to drive a car did you not??**

4. Read/implement my guide "Networking and SINS" linked-to from the "Technical FAQ" in the "Technical" forum it has everything you need to know to get gaming/hosting problem-free.

5. I have talked many people through the steps (via my TS) I outlined in my guides after they put in the effort to read/implement what I put the time and effort into putting together for the community. If you don't care to try to understand the WHAT, then I don't particularily care to help you with the HOW.


the Monk

Wow. How many threads on this topic are there already? Moreover that is a pretty hostile title for such a thread. methinks someone has some issues and is venting in the wrong way. Relax and breath a little deeper. This thread be in the tech forum anyway.

Anyway, Monk is a network God so your in good hands to be sure.

I know fully that those are games in progress

also I read some of your posts and they had some incomplete steps.

okay, sorry if I sound like Im venting. I am just really frustrated. It seems like there is no real step by step guide to port forwarding. I have read many and it seems like they don't tell me how to actually access my port, it just says "access your IP."
everything is so confusing

okay, sorry if I sound like Im venting. I am just really frustrated. It seems like there is no real step by step guide to port forwarding. I have read many and it seems like they don't tell me how to actually access my port, it just says "access your IP."
everything is so confusing

Please read point #4 in my first reply to this post.

I have windows firewall enabled thats it. I have "allowed" Sins to pass the windows firewall. What else must I do seriously. When I start/host a game I get the "your behind a firewall people might not beable to join your game blah blahb lahb labhalbhalbh"

no other game I own does that ... I think its a ligament complaint

after reading that FAQ nothing there has stopped me from crashing in MP or helped people who cant join my games - join (which really doesn't matter cause if they do join it will crash)

its not B****ing really i swear i just think some people have real issues, but i suspect that yeah some are just nimrods and can't use a network/router/firewall (im not one of them though)

I really hate the fact that if you beat the host, or he leaves after 3hrs... YOU dont get to finish your game... I always try to be on the hosts team so if we are winning I might actually get to finish a game, if its possible

This answered all my questions:

http://www.kiclan.com/Monk/Networking_and_SINS_by_the_Monk.pdf

I think it even tells you how to access your router which is relativly simple. If you don't know already, then its something that you would have had to learn eventually anyway. Maybe ask your parents how to access it?

It is also important to know, and is explained in the guide, that the "Most people will not be able to join your game" error message comes up even when you can host, just ignore it.

i went through all the guide's, have no firewall at all enabled, and opened the correct ports and shit to allow sins and still it doesn't work.
checked my router and all should be good yet i cant host.

also im from amsterdam where we have one of the worlds best broadband connections so thats good.

I agree completely with the complaint in this topic, i mean seriously, the image im getting is that barely anyone can host at all.

The image your getting is wrong then.

Its easy to host, all you have to do is forward your IP correctly. The other steps are all extra as far as I can tell.

I couldn't host, and it took literally 4 minutes to open the ports and get back into Sins to host my first game. The same people were still in the lobby waiting... in fact the first few people I spoke with said that either their parents wouldn't let them "open ports" on "their router" or that they were just too lazy to do it and rathered other people hosted. Anything I would suggest would be covered in Monk's guide...

Just DMZ Host yourself and you'll be able to host. If that does work, then somewhere you must not have your router set up right, and you'll have to look around. Remember, even DMZ hosted you'll still get the "Most people won't be able to join your game" message, just ignore it. If you have McAfee then don't forget to give Sins access to the internet. That was happening to me, but while it was the error message was different, in fact I think it just didn't let me host at all and would immediantly return to the lobby.

@Ron:
i did that and it didn't work.

But i'll recheck it just in case.


maybe my image is wrong but with the large groups of people im w8in for some1 to finaly start a game with, i never seen this before in any game i've ever played, so in my opinion, its pretty close to the facts.

Large groups of people that never figured out how to host works out good for me. It means when I do put up a game, people join it quicker

true, and it keeps the arrogant 8 yo's out
but as a product in my opinion it just doesn't add up.

I haven't tried out MP yet, but you surely mean forwarding your port, not the IP.

And port forwarding is something so elementary and basic, on most modern router it's a matter of a simple click and entering the port number. Of course, if you're feeling suicidal and lazy, you could always put the whole computer in the DMZ...

Forwarding the port to the right IP, yeah

Just ignore the message, I've gotten it every time I've tried to host a game and have had no issues with people joining.

I do want to point out something here.... this game... GAME is marketed to 12 and 13 year olds AND 24-45 year olds. Software apps... yea you better know what your doing if you want to be doing stuff t your computer... but to play a game? ? Its ok to have a few loops to jump for MP, but remember atleast 50% of the players probebly ARE under the age of 18. Its a game, people shouldnt HAVE to know about their router to play a game (there are online "userfriendly" games). This maybe where the technology is going, and soon this is normal, but as of right now not THAT normal. But please assume everyone you hear complain about the hosting issue IS 13, and they have a right to purchase and play the game. They will need help (us older guys need it to) but this is a GAME site... people acting like children should be the expected norm... probebly because they ARE children... I dunno as a dad i would have been choked at some of the responces for help had it been my daughter trying ask for help. If this was a support forum for anything but a game (hell even a "mature or adult" game site this would be ok) then to EXPECT people to know the "EASE OF ACCESS THAT IS VISTA" and other computer issues i think is just putting a little to much on a user of a product marketed to children. I am thankful of all the help offered on this Forums (The Monk, Kryo to name a couple) but i dont like the feeling that asking for help lables you an "idiot" to all, and by not understanding you are victimising the person helping you (which i guess it some instances this is true). The community is really good helping the masses of people needing tech help, however the way its handled sometimes makes people less likely to want to expand their tech savy and firgure it out (with asking for help).

PS - This isnt the simplest checklist even for tech friendly people. Router (still new technology as an everyday home item), Window Firewall (not hard but given the VISTA repution i could see people being intimitated), Modem Internal-Firewall (ok alot of people dont have the legal right to change their modem, doing so was new to me, tho not difficult), Security Software (norton, mcafee) most people wont or dont want to touch their security program, the younger or less experianced you get the more this is true. and to be honest, if you dont know what your doing well, you probebly shouldnt be trying to mess with THAT program on your computer. And even when you get that figured out you can still get an error message telling you it dosent work.

in Summary - For a professional program, the above could and should be expected from your user. For a mass release GAME marketed to teens, and young adults, the expectations (thus the "you should already know this if you want to use a computer") is unfair.

Lathorien, I have a huge problem with your connecting the word "game" and the world "children" as if only children play games, or even that gaming is a primarily "childish" activity. Gaming is not something "just for kids" or something you "grow out of"!

@ lathorien

Being a husband and father as well, believe me when I say that I understand your point.

Let me point out a grievance of my own.

Being busy with (wife, children, businesses) I have precious little time to actually "play" games. Those that I do make the time for are few and far between. I've always been of a helping nature (in my family, business, etc.) so it stands to reason that I will also be that to the community of any game I'm playing.

My grievance stems from the following facts:

The "younger" generation you speak of have no problems editing facebook pages, burning/ripping music, posting youtube videos, using photoshop, texting (while driving or in school), torrenting anything & everything (some of these things I myself would need to read a tutorial for in order to do them). Why don't they have problems doing any of the above? Because if a person wants to know how to do something badly enough, they'll learn.

The same thing is the case with router configuration. There are countless websites, forums, blogs and guides strewn about the internet that will give you everything you need to know in order to get your router confingured in no time.

When it comes to software-specific router configuration then it stands to reason that one would visit the forums of said software to find the answers to their questions (not unlike children visiting the torrent forums to find help). This help (as you have pointed out yourself) has been made abundantly available by members of this community.

There is quite a large difference between complaining about not having the correct information in order to get something working, or complaining about have to do anything at all.

I have (and continue to do so) made myself available to help this community in any way I can which has included forum posts, guides, time spent on my TS Server talking people through my instructions, and the only time I ever expect someone to feel like an idiot is when they haven't even bothered to read all of the information (my guide "Networking and SINS" is easy to read/follow and has everything needed in order to get things working) provided to them.

Even the young among us don't have the right to refuse to help themselves (download guides and read them) and then complain about not being helped!

/end rant



the Monk

If you have Norton or Mcaffee, you deserve everything bad that happens to you, its almost that simple.

That said, I didn't need to change a thing to host SoASE, not on the university connection, not at home and *whistles innocently* not at work. From what I've seen MOST people's problems stem DIRECTLY from their firewall/antivirus software.

Also, Monk is possibly the nicest member on this forum, giving him shit for DEVOTING HIS TIME, for FREE and with NO PERSONAL BENEFIT, really just makes you look like a jackass. I can and have done everything he's done here on other forums... but never to people so unappreciative and uncouth. Manners people. You have a problem, we have a fix, it might not be two clicks but its there and its easily managed step by step, be polite.

I seriously doubt the game is marketed to 12-13 year olds.

And with any broadband contract, you automatically get a router nowadays - mostly with WLAN and whatnot. The problem is that OS like windows have so completely hidden even the most basic functions that people don't even bother to read the instruction manuals for their routers. I can't explain it in any way else that I have in my current location, access to at least three unsecured WLANs, one of them with the default manufacturer SID.

So, if the game actually goes beyond and teaches you something vital and basic (the security of NAT, and why exactly there is a router between you and the internet), I'm all for it.

Are you Austrian or are you taking that Avatar from WH40k Pndrev?

Also, I agree its not marketing to 12-13 year olds, but i'm sure there are lots of them playing. As previously mentioned its the younger generation that knows their electronics and software (so by extension: games)

Ok, I'm one of those people who is fairly retarded at all networking / internet functions on my computer. I run windows XP, so in order to find / access my router the guide and a bunch of random stuff I looked up says I access my command prompt and punch in "ipconfig". So I did this, not certain if maybe I'm not using command prompt, because a screen flashes on for like 1/10th of a second and then goes away. I am getting this by going through the start menu, then the little button that just says Run...


I'm just curious if I'm doing something wrong here, as I want to be able to host games, but am finding it difficult.