Actually no one requested anonymity in this case so I see no reason not to mention names.

Specifically the person who mentioned that he felt "forced" to go to the Core because of the presence of the team forums is Motti and the person that expressed the feeling that the Core was "snobbish" was Silverbeacher, however the snobbish comment was echoed by at least 4 other MVL members as well.

I think that when an MVL member feels that they have an issue that is of concern to them, that they bring it up to the League (unless they wish to remain anonymous for any reason). To have concerns channeled through another party does not seem like an accurate way to represent the opinions of those who have those particular concerns. Interpretation can often lead to accidental misrepresentation and also can naturally lead to it being tinted by the views of the one its being channeled through. Thats just part of life, as reality is in large part a matter of perception. I'm not saying that you have inadvertantly done this is this case Mumble, just making a general observation about how communication works. A 2nd or third party being involved generally just muddles things.

Sentient species taste better...

I see your point. However...

I became involved simply because these opinions were specifically mentioned to me directly as opposed to the league in general.

Also my involvement had nothing to do with the league directly it had to do with being a member of the admin staff at the Core and hearing people express concerns about the Core. The fact that these same persons were MVL members had absolutely nothing to do with my concern at least initially.

It was only when I took this concern to others (specifically other admin at the Core) and received the basic response of "go pound sand", did I come to share these same feelings.

From that point I brought up the potential of moving the MVL team forums to the ToE forums with at least ten other MVL members and to a man they all thought it was a great idea. Admittedly these same ten MVL members are all regulars at the ToE forums but it seemed to me that I am well within my bounds to suggest something that had that much apparent support within the league.

Not that it matters, but I'll go ahead and speak up. My feelings about the Core are not secret, nor have they been hidden from the Core or anyone else. I only visit there to check on the MVL and have nothing else to do with them.

I'm not on a campaign to keep anyone from going there though. My experience there wasn't a good one and I can't see anything changing how I feel about it. It was better when Drengin was at the helm in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.

It's funny that someone would bring up the term "snobbish". I never used that word to describe them, but will agree with that description as well. I found it more along the lines of hostile. I could see that "snobbish" might be a better way to view them.

Well, that was freakin' rude!



Any MVL member is "within their bounds" to make any suggestion they want. Thats one of the great things about the League.

In any case, my opinion is that I like the Core, as it's easy to navigate and read, very minimal in terms of graphics and layout which is a good thing for a forum, and there's no ads (which I despise, having worked in market research/advertising for a few years), and compartmentalized enough that I dont have to look at anything I dont desire to.

Sentient species taste better...

As an aside I am not asking that you take my word for the word of any MVL member whose name I mentioned, or even as an accurate statement of the opinions of others that I imply prompted me to make this suggestion. I merely mention specific names because I attempted to take some action based on comments they made to me and expect that they not throw me under the bus by expressing concern under one venue and not repeating the same concerns in the full light of day.

If others would feel more comfortable at the ToE forums I've got no objection. I had not known that the distaste for the core was so widespread or strong. A pity.

No reason to get overwrought... I'm sure they'll comment at some point. They dont live on the forums nearly as much as some of us. Luckily, my afternoons at work are usually slow.

Sentient species taste better...

We wouldn't throw you under a bus, Mumble. That would make too big a mess for neilo's bots to clean up.   

Personally, if there were an alternative to going to the Core, I'd take it and never look back.

@Kzinti Patriarch - The old Tyranny forums were being hosted by Eamped. The Eamped boards went down (all of them from what I could see) and took all of the subscribers forums with them. There were serious problems there, including some forums that were being used for animal adoption, therapy and anti-suicide lines. The Tyranny part was relatively minor compared to those sites problems.

Neilo found a more reliable source and subscribed there. He has plans to make the forums ad free and we all back him on that.

I can't say I've ever been a huge fan of the core myself... I just don't find myself heading that way often. I'm also not taking part in any high level super secret talks about the MVL, so it seems I'm not missing out on anything.

After 20 tries (check my Random character) I finally figured out a sure fire way to get a 1 year victory with these settings... its just taking me a Looooooong time for this one game. When this round is over I want to ask people (commissioner types) if my method is legal...

But I'm not giving up my secrets ahead of time!

~ Wyndstar

See, nothing to worry about!   

Sentient species taste better...

I wouldn't think so but it never hurts to have insurance.


Now who's interpreting the feelings of others?

I'm not even wrought let alone overwrought.

AFAIK there are no such things.


Sure are persistent.

PlayJeff is another one that will often play that many games. It is kind of amazing how long you can spend polishing what on the face of it looks to be a short game.

Well, and to be fair... a clarification on my legality comment. I'm not breaking any sort of honor code, and I'm not breaking any CURRENT rule of the MVL... I combed the rules several times to be sure, but I'm not sure if what I'm doing SHOULD remain legal in the future.

The difference between what is legal and what should be legal I will let be argued after the round is finished. For the rules as they stand now, I'm playing by them


~ Wyndstar

Sure, we can discuss this after the round is over.

I believe if anyone could accurately follow the pseudo legalese of the OP of that thread it would be a practicing lawyer, so I have no doubt that you are behaving legally.

Oh oh!

Congrats. Looking forward to what you submit. More than that though, I'm looking forward to some of your secrets at the end of the round. I've learned so much from everyone with each round. It's one of the reasons why I like the league.

I was one who had commented on the state of the Core. I have been a member almost as long as Mumble has and have seen both the focus of the site and the crowd changing. I used to go there all the time to bs with quite a few people. Now those people are either gone or intermitent visitors. Nowadays I just got to check the team forum, the occasional post in the Diplo's area and the completion of the battle thing.

I started going to the ToE forums more lately due to it just being a group of guys having fun and enjoying GC2. That's what it's about to me. I'd be in support of moving there as long as it's minimally upsetting to the MVL. I'd prefer it be there, but my foremost concern is the health of the MVL.

I'm on the fence when it comes to the Core forums. I like messing around on the battle game, but I also want to be able to go to a place where I can hang out with like minded people.

Sure Idazen!

ToE Forums

Ok well...time zone are a pain.

IIRC i may have been one of the first commenter's on the ToE forums about my dislike for the core. After being a member there for some time my opinion was that i was looked down on from many of the members since i did not take part in many of the off topic threads and discussions at the core. I use the core for GC2. Thats not to say i have not used other features, trivia, battle game, but the purpose of me being there is GC2.

Since i rarely took part in other discussions and threads i felt that i was ignored and simply discounted since i was a gc2 person not a core person, if you understand my distinction between the two.

I never bothered bringing anything up, i just didn't care enough, but we did discuss the matter on the ToE forums and many of us felt the same way.

As commish and a mvl player i did not like having to use the core as our meeting area as i felt we were not welcomed with open arms (my opinion) and were basically "allowed" to use their site. Since alot of us do not participate in core activities we are not really "part of the crowd".

There is nothing worse than being on a forum and feeling like your not welcome.
(My opinions here guys.)

Now i had brought up moving the MVL team forums to the ToE site some months ago actually, among the ToE MVL members, but i felt it was wrong for me to try this as i was commish and emperor of the ToE as well as the admin for the ToE forums. Too much conflict of interest for it to be seen as a rational discussion. I feel i can speak openly and give my opinion now i am not in such a conflicted position.

Now i won't admit that i am biased and would love to have all you guys members of the ToE forums and have the MVL forums there too, but just as a MVL players if i could have the team forums away from the core, i would. The core is no longer focused on GC2, so why be there.

I'd rather being hanging out with fellow GC2 players on a GC2 site. Kzinti mentioned it would be ideal having the team forums here, i agree. If that were possible that is where i would want them, not ToE. But since that is not possible i'd rather the forums be on a GC2 site.

So yea, i think the core is snobbish. I think many of the people there, though they smile and nod, mutter under their breath "great...GC2 people...go away we dont care about that game anymore".

Lets be somewhere we people do care about the game.

---

Someone asked about the old ToE forums? Kzinti i think? The server we were with crashed and for whatever reason the hosts did not have forum backups like they advertised. So all forums on that host were lost. Thats why we moved.

As for the ToE forums not being around forever. Well thats a valid concern i guess. But what makes anyone think the core will be around forever too. I am in the process of either this month or next, upgrading the ToE site to a payed forum. We will have our own .com, @tyrannyofevil email and file hosting services. Also the level of customization that comes with having a payed site. How fast this happens depends on how quickly i learn all that stuff.

The ToE forums will be around for as long as the MVL is, that is for sure.

So my vote, although admittedly biased, is to move the forums to ToE. The MVL will be among friends.

Edit - Seems Idazen edited his post whilst i typed my thesis....:lol:

You've given everything away! I know where the poison is. I choose--What in the world can that be?  

First of all, Wyndstar, of course it is against the rules  
As for moving, Well my slight language got me in trouble at the core more than once, But some of the individuals over there, well you get my drift. The TOE is based on GC2, it makes perfect sense. But I rarely comment at the core except in private forms so it does'nt matter to me one way or the other.

I only log onto the Core occasionally, and only for GC2 (I did try the battle game for about 15 seconds before I became bored with it). That said, the crowd there always seemed friendly to me, in the few interactions I had with the non-GC2 crowd.

I don't really care where we host our league forum. In fact, I wonder if we really need to use one at all. I'd personally just as soon not have private forums and keep everything here.

As for the ARC issue, I am still a bit miffed about it, to be honest. I don't really have anything else to say about it that I haven't already, however. I'm basically waiting to see how Stardock rules on the issue before making any kind of decision about it (and before participating in this round of the league).

There seems to be more issues now that are turning people off. Ghostwes and CalifDude are out this round. Anyone else? Also, are there any missing players this round as we've had in previous rounds? I wonder if we could somehow get a head count of who is in. I've heard from everyone on my team this round, so Team D is all set. I'm relieved to have no missing team-members this time around!

Sentient species taste better...

What is ARC? Don't think I've heard that term before...

~ Wyndstar

Well, gosh, I brought new meaning to the term "grind". BUT, on the bright side, I have my OFFICIAL submission for this round, after 21 tries:



Believe it or not that ONE game took me over 60 hours. I don't think I'll ever do that again, ug.

Go team!

~ Wyndstar