Trading Strats

Trade in this game is really wierd and is maximised for playing on timy maps with few opponents.

The only thing I have been able to figure out to get good income consistantly is to sell trade technologies to all your opponents and then let them establish the trade routes.

Scincerely,

[email protected]

Oh, thank God. I thought that I was massively missing something. I have not found trade to be worth it in any of may games, and don't think that I've built more than two freighters since GalCiv2 DA. (One for each expansion pack to see if anything changed.)

AFAIK, this info has never been definitively set down anywhere. Sorry.



As Scintor mentioned, sell/gift the Trade tech. I only do this for the minors, however, as I don't want to give any of the majors (potential enemies) another source of revenue. The AI's choice to trade with you *may* have to do with your military level (appeasement), and/or it *may* have to do with your economy. Again, though, I know of no definitive answer on this matter.



If nothing has changed since DL, a freighter is 'tagged' with the name of the planet on which it was constructed. Even if you were to send your Mars-built ship to Earth, and then send it on a trade route, it will still show up as a route from Mars, and the value of the route will be calculated accordingly. I can't remember if the graphic changes or not; it has been too long since I have tried this.

Hope I have been of some small help. Good luck.

I also have an impression that the trade mechanics yield very different results on different map types. I'm a long-game player, and the often-low ROI for trade routes on Gigantic maps left me never thinking of them in terms of revenue

But I do put a mid-level priority on getting trade going b/c the routes can help improve your diplo status and I don't start any game assuming all the other civs are enemies (still trying to make myself do all the clicking a conquest win demands on a map like the ones I prefer).

I believe that most of the players who play at high difficulty levels for high scores and speed games, and those who play strictly military conquest games, don't bother with trade routes. If you like to play a lower key game with influence, tech or diplomatic victory, there might be a place for trade in that kind of game. I've been moving along the learning curve and I dropped Trade several games ago. Having said that, it's nice to have the AI's help your economy along by coming to trade at your colonies...the Minor Races do that a lot and make a good addition to your income even if you don't have the Trade tech yourself.

When I did use trade routes, I came to think that trying to get a better route just wasn't worth the extra turns...a short route to the nearest minor gave a good enough return without sending freighters on long exploratory trips. Once you extablish a trade route, any trade route, for some reason the amount increases as the game goes on and the defference between a long route and a short one is not asll that much.

Cheers guys you've definitely given me something to think about.

1. I don't bother. The return on trade routes is not enough to waste my time building the freighters in the first place.

2. The value of a trade route is determined by the population of the origin world, the distance traveled, and the population of the end world. For example, if you are going to trade, build 1 world with a 13B population, 1 factory, StarPort, and the rest econ and morale buildings. Then send the freighters to the capital of the most distant opponent (the capital is usually the highest pop world, if not, find the highest pop world and end route there). Do this with every freighter you build, even if all of them go to the same end point.

3. Build econ starbases along the path the freighter takes and upgrade with trade bonus modules. In a GIGA map, it is possible to get trade routes worth 1000BC, but very tough to maintain, since each starbase is a target for AI opponents to destroy.
It is possible to have every inch of the trade route maxed with econ bases, but the cost in constructors makes it cost prohibitive, unless you are planning on going 10 years.

see this post
https://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=347&aid=178259

Good luck.

ye why would i create a trade line which costs more to build that i ever will get from that trading back.

Is it just me or creating the same route again yields less? i remember first time it said 7bc. And a second time it said 6bc.. I could be wrong.

In fact even having identical routes is questionable from a player side perspective. Shouldnt they have to be well.. unique or something.

Hi!

Potential for high pop (class 11+), distance (the further the better), trade path not crossing space of race(s) you'll have as enemies.


Make war, not love. Among AIs OFC, so their trade routes will go poof, and those free-flying unassigned freghters of them will hit your planets and establish trade routes.


In DL and DA a trade route doesn't cost anything. You invest 150-250 BC in a freighter, and after it hits a colonized planet of another player, your empire starts receiving each turn trade revenue, ranging from starting 5 up to ~200 BC at the end of the longest route in the biggest galaxy.

The main problem with trade is it gives the least money when you need it the most. A second one is it can be broken by too many random events to be a reliable enough source of income to build and empire with it. And the third one is it usually gives 1000-3000 BC income in a late stage of the game. If you have 500,000 BC tax income, that amount means nothing. But if you have only 5 planets, it can make the difference between a victory or a defeat.

BR, Iztok

Apart from the economic point of view, trade routes improve relations to other races so if you are a player not relying exclusively on warmongering, trade routes pay off in any case.

On an side-note: I have been playing the recent betas and noticed that I could not build the Galactic Privateer (most useful building for trade-focussed people) any more, now was this building completely removed from the game or is it just limited to certain races and I just happenend not to play one of them?

I find freighters to be very useful and I use them every game. It's the only way I ever haul myself out of debt in the early to mid game, and you shouldn't underestimate the importance of anything that improves your relations with other races, unless you like being ganged up on. If you're doing very well they might turn against you anyway, but by then you won't need them so much.

Building economy starbases for no other purpose than to increase trade revenue doesn't seem worthwhile, especially if you need to pay for defenses on them, but it's cool when you can work out routes so they're all passing through your local planet-boosting economy bases.

You certainly don't want to be utterly reliant on them since all sorts of factors can result in lost routes, worst of all your trading partner turning on you. I also avoid trading with minor powers since either myself or somebody else will eventually conquer them. Usually I'll pick several would-be allies to trade with, with an eye toward making sure nobody they like is being left out, so there's nobody left (hopefully) to bribe them to war against me.

Lets see how much it doesnt cost anything:

First, a distant, highly populated, world is most certainly not a production world, but an economic world. Since you have to create a freighter there you miss on one stockmarket every turn the starport is there. That can be quite a lot of money on a developed planet.

Second, in order to actually build that freighter there, you have to pay money. No factories there. Big money. Its useless to get a cheap freighter since by the time it gets to its destination the game could be over. Good (fast) freighter cost several thousands BC for each freighter multiplied by 10 for ten routes++. Add another several thousand BC for each war, since you have to rebuild them.

Next in order to get good trade money you have to establish starbases. And a protection fleet. Thats crazy money. Thats bases doing nothing but constructors and protection ships, instead of doing necessary things. Thats a pain of micromanaging all that stuff.

And at the and thats how much, 1k per turn on average in the late game? This would not even cover the investments, not even talking about maintenance costs.

I disagree with both these assumptions. I like to have 1 trade route with every other civ, for diplomatic reasons. I want to go to war when and where I decide to, not when my enemies feel like it. A boost to relations is a good thing.

The Economic captial is a nice early boost to income, and you need the Trade tech for that. As soon as I get Trade, I trade it away to all the minors, so that they will start building the Economic capital as well, so that I will acquire them by conquest later.

Sentient species taste better...

I start building freighters on my home world as soon as the initial colony rush winds down. I'll send 5 to the home worlds of the 5 closest AI (Trade level 1). This is the point in the game where my economy is struggling and the growing trade revenue really helps. I also assume the improved relations with the AI is one of the reasons I never seem to get involved in an early war. By the time all 5 routes are established my weekly trade income more than justifies the cost of building the freighters (and constructors for an econ starbase) - the amortization is a few months, after that it's pure profit. As the game progresses I'll research the other trade techs and add more routes. I also try to research Galactic Privateer and the other trade wonders.

The caveat is that you have to pursue a peaceful victory - at least until you build Galactic Privateer. If you are at war, the AI will destroy your freighters and the value proposition changes completely.

In resonse to Kzinti's post, I gained these impressions partly from studying the games and strategies expounded by Mumblefratz, Wyndstar and Purge, where I don't recall seeing anything about building freighters and establishing trade routes. In fact I know I've seen discussion about how trade routes are lost and freighters destroyed so easily. Having the Trade tech and building an economic capital is something else and I should have mentioned that in my post. Anyway, thanks for your input, all things should be considered.

All three of those players are certainly better than me (they are among the elite), so you should probably be listening to them. I like to take my time with a game, so speed is probably one of the big differences between myself and the aforementioned players. I know I take a score hit because of this, but its the way I enjoy playing. In a faster game, the relations increase from trading would not be as useful.

In a large game, with 8 minors and 9 other civs, I do like ending up with 18 economic capitals!

Sentient species taste better...

Hi!

Nope. It's my HW, that I turn into a production planet in almost all games.


Please see my previous line.


You obviously missed "You invest 150-250 BC in a freighter". The last time I checked my most expensive late-game speed ~9 freighter costed around 300 BC - DA game ver. 1.8. Buying it for several thousands BCs somehow beats its purpose, don't you think so?


Nope. At least I don't do it, because those econ starbases cost too much to build - again beating their purpose.

I use freighters mainly as a diplo tool. If they bring some money, even better. So I keep their costs low, build the first batch (6-8 of them) on my main production planet (in early game my HW most of the time) when I run out of colonizable planets, and hit one good planet of each close neighbour (that I want to keep happy) with one freighter. Other mayor races in range also get one freighter. I establish more than one route only with the race I'd like to have as a reliable partner until the game end. That race should reside away from the area where I intend to start conflicts, so my money-bringing freighters usually live quite long.

That's about all what I can say about the trade in GC-2. I actually miss the way trade worked in GC-1, where it really made an impact.

BR, Iztok

Hey, Kzinti...isn't it out of character for you to be cozying up to the AI's with trade routes? I thoght you cats were EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIL!!

The trade routes are for deceptive purposes....helps to quell their fears about us voracious predators. Then we pounce and devour!!   

Sentient species taste better...

i find trade is a must in my conquest games. I tend to have a pretty powerful economy (lots of manufacturing planets from higher tech level, 50/49/1 tech/social/military spending or 0/99/1 with tech focus on planets) and I find that trade is the only way to keep the factories fed. I always get max bonus to economy, as well as federalist gov for another +20, and I max the economy tech tree early, but with the way I expand and spend it is just not enough. having a turn budget in the trillions of credits (over 1000 bc) is hard thing to keep up. And trade helps keep you in the green. I swear that the amounts reported as income are much lower then what is actually earned.

I'm not sure I'm reading the PlanetImprovements.xml file correctly, but it looks like the Privateer in TA requires "Invulnerable Shipping." Unfortunately, that tech does not appear to be in any tech tree in the current build.

It looks to me like Stardock made a conscious decision to make trade viable only for the Korx. They are now the only race with access to a Galactic Privateer equivilant, they have a unique tech they start with that gives +20 trade and they start with +50 trade and +3 trade routes for starting bonuses. For the Korx, trade is good. For everyone else it's useful only for diplomatic purposes.

I still stand by my comment and I will expand on it a bit.

Iztoc is right, you cannot make enough money from a trade route to justify the cost of a freighter. Building freighters is only good as a diplomatic tool, not a economic one.

Strangely enough, the only way to make money consistantly from trade technologies is to sell it to everyone else and let them spend their rescources on building the freighters. It's counter intuitive, but it works! You make money from selling the technology, it takes up their rescources that otherwise would be spent making military ships, and you get money whenever the link a trade route to you.

Scincerely,

[email protected]

There is an event (mega?) that cuts your tax revenue and boosts trade revenue. It happened to me in my current DA game, and if I'm reading things rightly, I would be doing way better than the computer civs if I'd put an earlier emphasis on trade. I chose to accept the event, but I'm still hoping it ends eventually.

Contrary to the direction of this thread, I very often find trade extremely useful (excluding military games). The key to using trade effectively is economic bases, stationed around 1 planet where all freighters are coming from. This allows for nearly quadruple the normal revenue.

While I may be wrong, I also don't see a point in getting all freighters from your econ planet. I thought that improvements for economy on planets only increased tax revenue, not trade revenue.